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| Topic: They is Heaven And hell. | |
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The concept of a loving god torturing something forever is ridiculous. How could the rest be happy knowing some of their loved ones were being tortured in Hell. When God rules there will be no pain.
Revelation 21:4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” |
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If god was so successful why is hell even necessary .. Just another form of social control.  Hell is merely a temporary holding place. Jesus went to Hell 3 days eg., was in the grave 3 days. People will be resurrected from Hell for Judgement thus raised from the grave. How in any way is that social control? Everyone will go to Hell at one point or other, unless they/we just so happen to be living when Jesus returns.  There is no threat. "Hell" was not made for man/woman. Hell is a temporary holding place awaiting judgement. And again by no means could it be a "threat". As someone has to believe in it before it can have any form of control over them in any way. There is nothing to be threatened over. God offers eternal life through his blood he shed on calvery for us. Eternal life isn't something we are born with. It is offered through the grace of God. That's all, again there is absolutely no threat lol. As it is a "choice" to believe in the scriptures or not, secondly wouldn't make much sense nor do I think it's quite possible to "threaten" someone into doing something on a "faith" based belief. Unless those people are choosing to have faith their "god" has threatened them for this or that, but that goes off into another discussion lol. |
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Everyone who dies is dead, until resurrected by God. There are two resurrections. The first, those who keep the commandments of God, resurrected immortal, will rule with Christ for 1,000 years. At the end of the 1,000 yrs the rest of the dead are resurrected and will be judged.
Nobody goes to heaven or a hell fire as soon as they die. They are like asleep, until the time of the resurrection. John 3:13 “No one has ascended to heaven but he who came down from heaven, that is, the son of man who is in heaven”. THE WORD HELL HAS THREE DIFFERENT MEANINGS #1 Hell = The Grave #2 Hell = Gehenna = garbage dump outside Jerusalem #3 Hell = Lake of fire = end time destruction of all who will not keep the commandments of god Ecclesiastes 9:10 “Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest”. Ecclesiastes 9:5 “ For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more reward; for the memory of them is forgotten” Daniel 12:2 “ And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”. 1 corinthians 15;20 “ But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming”. Revelation 20: 6 “ Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years”. After 1,000 years , the rest of the dead are resurrected and judged according to their works. Those cast into the lake of fire are burned up and nothing is left of them. Revelation 20:5 “ But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.” Revelation 20:15 “ And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Mathew 10:28 “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But fear him who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell”. Malachi 4:1 “ For behold the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble; and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of Hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.” Malachi 4;3 “ And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of Hosts” Does the Bible Speak of Hellfire That Lasts Forever? Two verses that many assume prove the wicked are to be eternally tortured in hellfire are Matthew 25:41 and 25:46. But do they? Let’s take a closer look. First, notice the setting to which they refer— when Jesus “comes in His glory” (verses 31-32). We are told that He separates the sheep from the goats. The sheep represent the righteous (verses 34-40). At His return He sets the sheep at His right hand. The goats in this instance represent sinners. They are appointed to assemble on Jesus’ left hand. He then consigns the goats to “the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41). The word everlasting is translated from the Greek word aionios. The key to understanding this verse is knowing what will occur everlastingly. Does it refer to a fire that tortures without end, or does it have another meaning? In Matthew 25:46 Jesus spoke in a single sentence of everlasting (aionios) punishment and of life eternal (aionios). Since the righteous will be given eternal, or everlasting, life, many theologians believe the punishing of the wicked must last as long as the life given to the righteous. But this cannot be reconciled with the statement that those cast into the lake of fire perish—they are killed. As explained elsewhere, they suffer death—the second death (Revelation 2:11; 20:6, 14; 21:8). A plain and simple meaning of Matthew 25:46 that fits with the rest of the Bible is that the wicked are cast into a fire that annihilates them—renders them forever extinct. The resulting punishment of being cast into the aionios fire is a one-time event. It is a permanent punishment, the results of which will remain forever—that is, eternal death. It is not ongoing punishing that continues forever without end. This is the only explanation that agrees with the rest of the Scriptures. An additional point needs to be made regarding the meaning of aionios. Genesis 19 describes God’s destruction of two cities, Sodom and Gomorrah, for their wickedness: “Then the Lord rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah” (Genesis 19:24). They were utterly destroyed—consumed by fire. In the New Testament, the book of Jude describes these cities as “suffering the vengeance of eternal [aionios] fire” (verse 7). Yet it is obvious that the fires that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah are not still burning. In the case of these cities and in the case of the wicked, who are consigned to aionios fire, the fire burns and completely destroys. But the eternal aspect of the fire is its everlasting effect, not how long it actually burns. There will not be anybody suffering in hell, or anywhere else, in the new kingdom. Revelation 21:4 “ And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away". |
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Edited by
CowboyGH
on
Wed 05/20/15 10:29 AM
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Everyone who dies is dead, until resurrected by God. There are two resurrections. The first, those who keep the commandments of God, resurrected immortal, will rule with Christ for 1,000 years. At the end of the 1,000 yrs the rest of the dead are resurrected and will be judged. Nobody goes to heaven or a hell fire as soon as they die. They are like asleep, until the time of the resurrection. John 3:13 “No one has ascended to heaven but he who came down from heaven, that is, the son of man who is in heaven”. THE WORD HELL HAS THREE DIFFERENT MEANINGS #1 Hell = The Grave #2 Hell = Gehenna = garbage dump outside Jerusalem #3 Hell = Lake of fire = end time destruction of all who will not keep the commandments of god Ecclesiastes 9:10 “Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest”. Ecclesiastes 9:5 “ For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more reward; for the memory of them is forgotten” Daniel 12:2 “ And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”. 1 corinthians 15;20 “ But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming”. Revelation 20: 6 “ Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years”. After 1,000 years , the rest of the dead are resurrected and judged according to their works. Those cast into the lake of fire are burned up and nothing is left of them. Revelation 20:5 “ But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.” Revelation 20:15 “ And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Mathew 10:28 “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But fear him who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell”. Malachi 4:1 “ For behold the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble; and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of Hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.” Malachi 4;3 “ And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of Hosts” Does the Bible Speak of Hellfire That Lasts Forever? Two verses that many assume prove the wicked are to be eternally tortured in hellfire are Matthew 25:41 and 25:46. But do they? Let’s take a closer look. First, notice the setting to which they refer— when Jesus “comes in His glory” (verses 31-32). We are told that He separates the sheep from the goats. The sheep represent the righteous (verses 34-40). At His return He sets the sheep at His right hand. The goats in this instance represent sinners. They are appointed to assemble on Jesus’ left hand. He then consigns the goats to “the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41). The word everlasting is translated from the Greek word aionios. The key to understanding this verse is knowing what will occur everlastingly. Does it refer to a fire that tortures without end, or does it have another meaning? In Matthew 25:46 Jesus spoke in a single sentence of everlasting (aionios) punishment and of life eternal (aionios). Since the righteous will be given eternal, or everlasting, life, many theologians believe the punishing of the wicked must last as long as the life given to the righteous. But this cannot be reconciled with the statement that those cast into the lake of fire perish—they are killed. As explained elsewhere, they suffer death—the second death (Revelation 2:11; 20:6, 14; 21:8). A plain and simple meaning of Matthew 25:46 that fits with the rest of the Bible is that the wicked are cast into a fire that annihilates them—renders them forever extinct. The resulting punishment of being cast into the aionios fire is a one-time event. It is a permanent punishment, the results of which will remain forever—that is, eternal death. It is not ongoing punishing that continues forever without end. This is the only explanation that agrees with the rest of the Scriptures. An additional point needs to be made regarding the meaning of aionios. Genesis 19 describes God’s destruction of two cities, Sodom and Gomorrah, for their wickedness: “Then the Lord rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah” (Genesis 19:24). They were utterly destroyed—consumed by fire. In the New Testament, the book of Jude describes these cities as “suffering the vengeance of eternal [aionios] fire” (verse 7). Yet it is obvious that the fires that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah are not still burning. In the case of these cities and in the case of the wicked, who are consigned to aionios fire, the fire burns and completely destroys. But the eternal aspect of the fire is its everlasting effect, not how long it actually burns. There will not be anybody suffering in hell, or anywhere else, in the new kingdom. Revelation 21:4 “ And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away". THE WORD HELL HAS THREE DIFFERENT MEANINGS #1 Hell = The Grave #2 Hell = Gehenna = garbage dump outside Jerusalem #3 Hell = Lake of fire = end time destruction of all who will not keep the commandments of god Sort of true, again Hell is a temporary holding place. Some were buried in graves, some dumped somewhere else, some in the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. But the Lake of Fire and the "hell" are two different places, as why the "hell" is thrown into the lake of fire, they are not one in the same thing. Hell is nothing more then in our language today the word "grave" is used. Revelation 20:14 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. |
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The Lake of fire is the end, nothing comes out of the Lake of fire. People thrown in will be ashes, death and hell are finished. There will be a new heaven and a new earth, with God's government running things.
Revelation 20-22New International Version (NIV) The Thousand Years 20 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time. 4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years. The Judgment of Satan 7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. The Judgment of the Dead 11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. 21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. |
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If god was so successful why is hell even necessary .. Just another form of social control. Hell is merely a temporary holding place. Jesus went to Hell 3 days eg., was in the grave 3 days. People will be resurrected from Hell for Judgement thus raised from the grave. How in any way is that social control? Everyone will go to Hell at one point or other, unless they/we just so happen to be living when Jesus returns. No sir!!!! Hell is not a temporary place! That contradicts very clearly, what the Bible says about hell! Yes, all men will be judged but once a soul's misses heaven, that soul spends eternity in hell. There are only two places and each of those places is forever!!!! Oh but it is temporary for it will be thrown into the lake of fire. Hell is the grave, the waiting place for judgement. Revelations 20 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. If hell is thrown into the lake of fire, then it does not stop to exist! It means it then has the same and common location as the lake of fire! Anyone who misses out on heaven gets into hell/lake of fire - they are one and the same in terms of where an unsaved soul will spend eternity. There are ONLY two places to go to after physical death: HEAVEN or HELL. Wherever the person's soul lands (heaven or hell), the place becomes the soul's eternal place of abode - this is the second death. |
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Everyone who dies is dead, until resurrected by God. There are two resurrections. The first, those who keep the commandments of God, resurrected immortal, will rule with Christ for 1,000 years. At the end of the 1,000 yrs the rest of the dead are resurrected and will be judged. Nobody goes to heaven or a hell fire as soon as they die. They are like asleep, until the time of the resurrection. John 3:13 “No one has ascended to heaven but he who came down from heaven, that is, the son of man who is in heaven”. THE WORD HELL HAS THREE DIFFERENT MEANINGS #1 Hell = The Grave #2 Hell = Gehenna = garbage dump outside Jerusalem #3 Hell = Lake of fire = end time destruction of all who will not keep the commandments of god Ecclesiastes 9:10 “Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest”. Ecclesiastes 9:5 “ For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more reward; for the memory of them is forgotten” Daniel 12:2 “ And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”. 1 corinthians 15;20 “ But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming”. Revelation 20: 6 “ Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years”. After 1,000 years , the rest of the dead are resurrected and judged according to their works. Those cast into the lake of fire are burned up and nothing is left of them. Revelation 20:5 “ But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.” Revelation 20:15 “ And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Mathew 10:28 “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But fear him who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell”. Malachi 4:1 “ For behold the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble; and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of Hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.” Malachi 4;3 “ And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of Hosts” Does the Bible Speak of Hellfire That Lasts Forever? Two verses that many assume prove the wicked are to be eternally tortured in hellfire are Matthew 25:41 and 25:46. But do they? Let’s take a closer look. First, notice the setting to which they refer— when Jesus “comes in His glory” (verses 31-32). We are told that He separates the sheep from the goats. The sheep represent the righteous (verses 34-40). At His return He sets the sheep at His right hand. The goats in this instance represent sinners. They are appointed to assemble on Jesus’ left hand. He then consigns the goats to “the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41). The word everlasting is translated from the Greek word aionios. The key to understanding this verse is knowing what will occur everlastingly. Does it refer to a fire that tortures without end, or does it have another meaning? In Matthew 25:46 Jesus spoke in a single sentence of everlasting (aionios) punishment and of life eternal (aionios). Since the righteous will be given eternal, or everlasting, life, many theologians believe the punishing of the wicked must last as long as the life given to the righteous. But this cannot be reconciled with the statement that those cast into the lake of fire perish—they are killed. As explained elsewhere, they suffer death—the second death (Revelation 2:11; 20:6, 14; 21:8). A plain and simple meaning of Matthew 25:46 that fits with the rest of the Bible is that the wicked are cast into a fire that annihilates them—renders them forever extinct. The resulting punishment of being cast into the aionios fire is a one-time event. It is a permanent punishment, the results of which will remain forever—that is, eternal death. It is not ongoing punishing that continues forever without end. This is the only explanation that agrees with the rest of the Scriptures. An additional point needs to be made regarding the meaning of aionios. Genesis 19 describes God’s destruction of two cities, Sodom and Gomorrah, for their wickedness: “Then the Lord rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah” (Genesis 19:24). They were utterly destroyed—consumed by fire. In the New Testament, the book of Jude describes these cities as “suffering the vengeance of eternal [aionios] fire” (verse 7). Yet it is obvious that the fires that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah are not still burning. In the case of these cities and in the case of the wicked, who are consigned to aionios fire, the fire burns and completely destroys. But the eternal aspect of the fire is its everlasting effect, not how long it actually burns. There will not be anybody suffering in hell, or anywhere else, in the new kingdom. Revelation 21:4 “ And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away". THE WORD HELL HAS THREE DIFFERENT MEANINGS #1 Hell = The Grave #2 Hell = Gehenna = garbage dump outside Jerusalem #3 Hell = Lake of fire = end time destruction of all who will not keep the commandments of god Sort of true, again Hell is a temporary holding place. Some were buried in graves, some dumped somewhere else, some in the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. But the Lake of Fire and the "hell" are two different places, as why the "hell" is thrown into the lake of fire, they are not one in the same thing. Hell is nothing more then in our language today the word "grave" is used. Revelation 20:14 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. The grave is not hell. Hell is not temporary. This is wrong doctrine and a deceit from hell itself! |
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"There will not be anybody suffering in hell, or anywhere else, in the new kingdom.
Revelation 21:4 “ And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away"." ___________________ Another deceit from hell. Revelation 21:4 is for the saved. All men are admonished by the Bible to receive Jesus Christ as LORD and SAVOIR (be born again); so as to escape hell/lake of fire. JESUS said of HIMSELF, "I am the way, the truth and the life". Anyone whose name is not found written in the book of life will spend eternity in hell fire/lake of fire. JESUS consistently warned all men of the doom of all those who reject God's offer of salvation. |
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Jesusmyall,
Can you find anywhere in the Bible that says anyone goes to heaven when they die? 26. John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. |
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Jesusmyall, Can you find anywhere in the Bible that says anyone goes to heaven when they die? 26. John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. Read 2 Corinthians 5.8: "Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord." |
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The dead have to be resurrected. Christ is the only one resurrected so far. There will be two resurrections. The first one is when Christ returns. He has not returned yet.
1 corinthians 15 20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[f]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we[g] bear the image of the heavenly man. |
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Edited by
NeutralZone2
on
Sun 05/24/15 08:23 PM
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Pamodgal said: I Believe That They is Heaven and they is Hell.You Only Choose While You are still Alive To Go to heaven or Hell.What I Know Jesus Christ Doesn't not Force A person to accept him.The Choice it yours. Pamodgal: It is true that there is Heaven, and the Bible does speak of hell. But what is your understanding of hell? I mean, what kind of place do you believe "hell" to be? NeutralZone2 ________________ ... be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath...." (James 1:19-20) |
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Edited by
NeutralZone2
on
Sun 05/24/15 08:21 PM
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SheikOfLaBroquerie said:  Yes, God Almighty most certainly put his 'thumb' down when it came to Jesus being buried in the tomb for three day and three nights. But also, Jesus' spirit was made to go down to minister to other Souls in dense pits of Tartarus. (Matthew 12: 40) (Luke 11: 30) (2nd Peter 2: 4) SheikOfLaBroquerie: None of the above scriptures you presented make any mention of Jesus going "down to minister to other Souls in dense pits of Tartarus." Matthew 12:40 and Luke 11:30 both use the comparison of Jonah being in the fish for three days, and compares that account of Jonah with Jesus Christ being in the grave for three days. The scripture at 2nd Peter 2:4 is the only one that mentions Tartarus, but even then, it makes no mention of Jesus Christ in that verse of scripture. Instead, it informs the reader that the symbolic "Tartarus" is the destination of the demonic angels who rebelled against Jehovah. Below is the account from 2nd Peter 2:4. Notice the word that I printed in all capitals within the quotation. "Certainly if God did not hold back from punishing the ANGELS that sinned, but, by throwing them into Tartarus, delivered them to pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment;" NeutralZone2 ________________ ... be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath...." (James 1:19-20) |
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