it's(Israel) a country, not state... Palestine is more of a state...

This is not true Islam, this is a poltical contortion in extremis. Follow the money...

That is your opinion, Prior to the creation of Isreal and under the British mandate (the Syke-Picot)
the teritory was referred to as Palistine and Trans-Jordan.

still, that is meaningless... it doesn't really matter what sect a person is when they're killing you...

yea, well, that was then, this is now...

If you wish to be hardline, fine by me. To be clear, you believe the concept of "...I came, I saw and I conquered is fine. Am I wrong?

winners write the history, not the losers... but no, i don't believe that is a good concept...

history played out the way it did, that land 1000 years ago was Israelis, not Palestinians... many battles have been fought on those lands, both sides winning and losing at different times... the claim is Israels at this point in time, and there's not a lot that can be done to change that, even with all the pointless bombing by the muslims in Israel...

Have you ever read the letter that Dr. Albert Einstein wrote to the NYT (a letter that contained the signatures of another 20-something Jewish dignatories) in December1948?

umm... yes

Letters to the New York Times
December 4, 1948

New Palestine Party
Visit of Menachem Begin and Aims of Political Movement Discussed

TO THE EDITORS OF THE NEW YORK TIMES:

Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.

The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin's political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.

Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in Begin's behalf, and the creation in Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports Fascist elements in Israel, the American public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement.

The public avowals of Begin's party are no guide whatever to its actual character. Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future.

Attack on Arab Village

A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants 240 men, women, and children and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin.

The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party.

Within the Jewish community they have preached an admixture of ultranationalism, religious mysticism, and racial superiority. Like other Fascist parties they have been used to break strikes, and have themselves pressed for the destruction of free trade unions. In their stead they have proposed corporate unions on the Italian Fascist model.

During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide-spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute.

The people of the Freedom Party have had no part in the constructive achievements in Palestine. They have reclaimed no land, built no settlements, and only detracted from the Jewish defense activity. Their much-publicized immigration endeavors were minute, and devoted mainly to bringing in Fascist compatriots.

Discrepancies Seen

The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party, and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a "Leader State" is the goal.

In the light of the foregoing considerations, it is imperative that the truth about Mr. Begin and his movement be made known in this country. It is all the more tragic that the top leadership of American Zionism has refused to campaign against Begin's efforts, or even to expose to its own constituents the dangers to Israel from support to Begin.

The undersigned therefore take this means of publicly presenting a few salient facts concerning Begin and his party; and of urging all concerned not to support this latest manifestation of fascism.

(signed)

Isidore Abramowitz, Hannah Arendt, Abraham Brick, Rabbi Jessurun Cardozo, Albert Einstein, Herman Eisen, M.D., Hayim Fineman, M. Gallen, M.D., H.H. Harris, Zelig S. Harris, Sidney Hook, Fred Karush, Bruria Kaufman, Irma L. Lindheim, Nachman Maisel, Symour Melman, Myer D. Mendelson, M.D., Harry M. Orlinsky, Samuel Pitlick, Fritz Rohrlich, Louis P. Rocker, Ruth Sager, Itzhak Sankowsky, I.J. Schoenberg, Samuel Shuman, M. Znger, Irma Wolpe, Stefan Wolpe

New York, Dec. 2, 1948


he was a physicist, not a politician... people are allowed their opinions, are they not?

For a so called Journalist you make a lot of mistakes, in fact so many it's hard to take you serious or believe anything you say, but that applies to most journalists.
I find your snide remark about the British highly offensive.
Please forgive us our mistakes and let's move on for a brighter more peaceful future for all.

ISIS for me are worst .. they killed a lot of innocents people... a lot of men who wants to find work but they killed all of them....jordan pilot who burned alive and others... they are likely the same with other muslim here who brings war and killed a lot of hero souldiers here...

out of the main 3, they do seem to be the most "active" at the moment...

********** Quote From Mightymoe *********

Ireland has had a history of siding with the muslims, and i'm thinking it has to do with your dislike for the Jews... the enemy of my enemy is my friend?... you tell me...

********** End Of Quote From Mightymoe ********






For about the last 400 years Ireland has been divided into two factions.

The Southern greater half that is sometimes called 'Free State Ireland' and the Northern portion that is often called the 'Republic Of Northern Ireland' (Favorable Title To The Conquerors And British Commonwealth).

These factions started as a result of Protestant Reformation's continued expansion Westward from Europe.

Most, Free State Irish, including those displaced during the ever expanding Protestant Reformers advancement, see the Protestants as a people encroaching on their predominantly Catholic society.

Thus, the only relative comparison to Free State Irish (Mostly Catholic), and the displaced Palestinian people (Mostly Muslim), isn't in a mutual disdain for Jewish encroachment... It's just the mutual empathy of a displaced people with other displaced people.

The Irish Catholics have been displaced by Protestant expansion.

The Palestinian Muslims have been displaced by Jewish expansion.

The Irish aren't overly preoccupied, at all, with Jewish encroachment.

First off, I feel it necessary to apologise to you Funkyfranlie. My remark concerning the British was absolutely not intended as a slight nor was I intending to be snide. Perhaps I could and should have tried to be more precise.

What I ment when I said

"...Please don't take the view that the Irish hate the Jews. That would be wrongheaded. We view the Jewish people in a manner similar to the manner we opine the British, (for obvious reasons)...",

was that the Irish can tend to have a somewhat conflicted view of Britain. On the one hand, we are only too aware of our shared culture, our similarities of ways, legal framework, politics and language, the fact that Irish people quite happily live and work in Britain and along with our easy relationship with our English friends an associates (I have many of both myself). On the other hand, history casts a long shaddow, though finally it seems that we have begun to 'get over ourselves' and are beginning to ditch the baggage.

As for mistakes, indeed I make many of those, but then again who doesn't make the occasional one. I am however, always open to being corrected about the facts, so please feel free to point them out to me.

yea, well, people can like or dislike whoever they want, but i have never heard a muslim or a Irishman say anything good about the Jews... just my observations

sometimes...

Why the heck does the 'Quote Feature' work for You, Mightmoe...?

But, not for me!

I'd have no difficulty saying that the Israelis that I've met and from my observations, are amoungst the smartest most intelligent people I know of. They are as cultured, resourceful, scientific, artistic, educated, and enterprising a people as there is.

Coming from a Paddy, will that suffice?