Im not an old fogie, for the final time
IM a female who feels females who are CONCERNED with not being valued based upon their measurements reflect that by not patronizing images and artistis expression which does just that

its not just 'popular' music , its western culture in general, young girls getting their value from how 'desirable' a man says they are,,,

and men finding them 'desirable' based upon how little they are wearing and how sexually they are moving,,


ITS NOT ABOUT EVERY MAN, it only applies to the men it applies to


it doesn't mean EVERYONE Has to feel this way, its my feeling, and it was the poets feeling too

it doesn't mean that I am offended by 'everything' at all, just that I believe in a time and place for everything, and I personally see a prevalence of time and places in MAINSTREAM MUSIC being spent creating an image of females that places their value as just possessions and body parts,,,


and again, there are many who have no problem with it, just like many have no problem with having their babies (pretten) dressing 'sexy',,

but many of us don't understand it or find it necessarily a 'healthy' image for young girls to emulate or conform to,,,,,

<---- "old fart" ...*turns up her oldies*

http://mingle2.com/topic/reply/409086

<<not an old fart

just empathetic to a young lady that wants to be REPSECTED feeling objectified instead,,,,

Why is it that "women" are represented but I don't feel that any other man represents me? People represent themselves. Some people like to copy them and that's precisely the right that you are so magnanomously willing to grant them.

because culture matters

that is evidenced in your own view that the complaints are about 'black culture'

those black people who behave a certain way are certainly representing themselves, but yet, if enough can be seen doing those behaviors,, it will be attributed to the 'black culture'


the same is true as to what a culture attributes as a 'womans value'


no one else represents you IN PERSON but you

but if MEDIA and CULTURE dictate that men are the stronger ones, that men should provide, that men should make their own rules

don't think that it wont affect how people view you as an individual UNTIL They get to know you, if they bother to

don't think that women wont be expecting you to be the paycheck, or have a job, or provide, or not cry,, or any of the things our CULTURE promotes as 'manly' values

,,

this young woman is brilliant and beautiful, and she no doubt represents herself too, yet, she also no doubt is viewed by many (Because she is a woman) as a potential hook up with no concern whatsoever or interest in her being a potential conversation

her body, more valued than her brains,, even if she INDIVIDUALLY represents herself as intelligent to those who take the time to get to know her

but I really tire of trying to make this point over and over,,,

What is a desi girl?

Ok, I got it

Gee I would like to meet one:


A young woman of mainly Indian descent, but can also be Pakistani or Bangladeshi
Respect, glamor, power, sincerity, love, honesty, compassion, creativity, dedication, hard work, brilliancy, beauty, pride flows in their veins.

A Desi girl is very respectable.

• a Desi girl is an all rounder, not a house wife
• a Desi girl keeps her self-esteem and her parents
• a Desi girl has an amazing, unique and sweet personality
• a Desi girl is extremely smart
• a Desi girl sets a good example
• a Desi girl is naturally beautiful although she might forget this at time
• a Desi girl loves what she does

• a Desi girl will make ANYONE proud
Guy 1: who's that girl?
Guy 2: oh. That's a Desi girl. She was born on Diwali, that's why she's a pataka!!!
Guy 3: WOW *drools*

http://youtu.be/5ihtX86JzmA

http://youtu.be/SxVNOnPyvIU

Men are objectified just like women are, it's just not on the same level. But it's always there. The easiest, not to mention, cheapest way to represent yourself is through aggressive sexual imagery. I really don't understand how people like you don't see how wrong of a message that sends to underdeveloped and impressionable brains.

It's because I'm not a puritan that has a problem with people expressing their sexuality. I'm dressed like Jim Morrison in my profile pictures and he was the ultimate sex symbol. I still think that The Doors are the best rock band in the world and I've been a fan since I was a teenager. He was a guy that saw himself as a poet and people do recognise him as that now and the "hip crowd" did at the time but he felt trapped by the image that he had created and wanted people to listen to his words. What happened was when they became the biggest group in America it was because the demographic that they were apealing to was what they used to call teenyboppers and that was the kids themselves only being interested in the image and wanting to see a spectacle. It's not society telling kids anything and it's a simple matter of young people being superficial and not actually wanting anything artistic or intellectual. That's just the way that it is and no amount of preaching is going to change it.

I'm always amazed by how people like you can read so much into "culture" that you can say things like it's telling girls that they should be "easy hookups". I'm not female and I wouldn't know because I don't get that message and it always sounds a bit peevish to me and probably goes back to high school where other girls were getting all of the attention. It's crap anyway and just black and white thinking. I've had a few girlfriends myself that had big boobs and I do find that atractive and it may be one of the first things that I notice but it is simply not the case that my liking T and A reduces women to that. I can like a woman to look a certain way without being entirely superficial. There are some girls that like to look "trashy" but they are a minority in this country at least and it's usually just them dressing up for a night out. I don't actually think that there's anything wrong with people wanting to go out and enjoy themselves and it's hardly inappropriate to wear skimpy clothes in a nightclub or at a pop concert.

that's great, and it is great for all women who have that sense of self

what is not so great is for the more impressionable YOUNG women still seeking out and developing their identity and being influenced by the culture and the music that paints their value in terms of their behind and their bra size,,,


music no longer has an influence on me as an individual either, but I certainly cant say that it NEVER did while I was growing and developing into an adult

my idea of love was influenced by my home, my environment, schooling, and media ,,,its all part of what we take in while growing,,,,

I listened to the r and b that talked about love and marriage and cherishing each other and the conscious rap that talked about terrible conditions and how to overcome them, or self value,,etc,,

young people now have ***** tonk badonkadonk ,and come get it bae,,,etc,,etc,,,etc,,,,

A Desi Arnaz groupie?

well, he was a hotty,,lol ( and he didn't undress or crawl around on a stage)

but I do think it would be weird for their to still be Arnaz groupies,,,most would be on walkers wouldn't they?..lol

Haha true.

Sorry for going off topic.

Well done Blondey ...Limit/control artistic expression! ...What does that remind you of?...All women were young, impressionable "girls" at one time...I loved cloths, makeup and rock and roll...I had "teen" idols and so did my girlfriends....I also had a mom and a dad who set boundaries...They were clear about consequences too..."Cultural" influence never trumped my parents rules for too long or to a major degree because they parented ...Limiting artistic expression because your don't like the message is not the answer, proper parenting is the answer....

please don't take it that I support 'limiting' artistic expression

we live in a 'free market', and because of that there is a natural limit that happens based upon what the market calls for and what people are willing to buy

I support the idea that some of us women(the ones who choose to effect a change in the cultural view of women) and men stop patronizing and supporting the images that we don't feel represent us well,,

if not enough people are buying it, it stops being pushed, if there is enough of an interest in buying it, it starts being pushed more

Im hoping more people will buy the images that portray women as intelligent, and sporty, and successful,,etc,,,,,in place of the images that portray women as meat in a store to be inspected and purchased for use,,,


that's all,

I think that you mean subjugation.

Religion is no different. That's all about brainwashing people and controlling them.

It does sound that way...Forced submission is no good either...In fact, I see it as way more damaging than dirty dancing....

well in the sense that subjugation means :


to bring under control and governance


that's what FREE MARKET does


its governed by supply and demand

supply is determined by demand

people wont voluntarily invest money in ideas that wont make money

nothing damaging about allowing people to spend their money where they wish to,,,

did we subjugate movies with people in monster costumes or did the market demand something of a better quality?

that's how it works,, when people tire of a product or want a better product, they say so with their pocketbooks,,,

Hmmm..."religion", "forced submission", "subjugation" I feel like this topic took a turn somewhere I didn't see anywhere the OP supported any of this.

For me, it's simply this, adults are free to produce, promote, and listen to this crap if they wish, because as adults hopefully their self image and ideas of their roles in relationships have already been formed, but parents have the ultimate say in what their kids with young, impressionable minds, who have not yet determined their roles, their self images not yet formed, listen to and take in. My parents limited what I listened to, that was part of their job, responsible parents have been doing that since the beginning of time. When I became an adult and out of their home, I was free to listen to and dance however I wished, as are all of you adults because by then hopefully we have learned that this is nothing more than a money making scheme and the producers of this crap couldn't care less what kind of self image your kid or mine has, they're just pushing a product.

Kids will eat cookies and drink soda all day too if their parents don't step in and control what they're taking in.

Sounds to me like we are in total agreement, Lil