Topic: The Challlenge of Talking about Race
no photo
Tue 07/22/14 06:59 PM
waving

eradicating racism begins at home, one person at a time....reaching out to enlarge those touched like the ripples on a pond....support the right to ripple :)

msharmony's photo
Tue 07/22/14 07:36 PM
Edited by msharmony on Tue 07/22/14 07:39 PM
why shouldnt they have access to government grants like any other non profit organization does?

Chazster's photo
Tue 07/22/14 08:20 PM


Wow race is is ingrained in your mind set you cant seperate it from anything. This is what keeps the country from moving forward.



no, what keeps it from moving forward is those who refuse to even aknowledge the reality of the benefit in being part of the majority that may sometimes cause a disadvantage , underrepresentation, or even exclusion for the minority

which , by the way, happens in more countries than america and more races than white,,,or black

for instance, hispanics are a part of the 'general' public, and we have SPANISH channels now, but that isnt because its racist, its because its already the 'general' expectation that most other channels will be english speaking,,,they dont need to advertise 'english' in their titles, its ASSUMED as the 'norm' of the 'general' public

but when people are stuck up on the 'white' thing only , and refuse to aknowledge any bigger context,,

we will continue to have no resolutions

if its really offensive that we might have a BET, when for DECADES whites had ABC, CBS, and NBC(before cable),,,

if its really offensive that we might have an NAACP, when for DECADES whites had CONGRESS<,,lol

than, I guess the discussion is halted for many at a place of situational blindness



Nope I have been more a minority than you. And while living like that I pretty much ignored that fact. And while it still existed I didn't promote it by crying fowl and demanding "representation". Neither does my wife.

willing2's photo
Tue 07/22/14 08:22 PM
OTHER organizations don't have a separatist agenda.

Chazster's photo
Tue 07/22/14 08:24 PM
But of course this is because i wasn't indoctrinated since birth to think about race. I think of people as people first. And think about if I am represented as if other people are there.

msharmony's photo
Tue 07/22/14 08:30 PM



Wow race is is ingrained in your mind set you cant seperate it from anything. This is what keeps the country from moving forward.



no, what keeps it from moving forward is those who refuse to even aknowledge the reality of the benefit in being part of the majority that may sometimes cause a disadvantage , underrepresentation, or even exclusion for the minority

which , by the way, happens in more countries than america and more races than white,,,or black

for instance, hispanics are a part of the 'general' public, and we have SPANISH channels now, but that isnt because its racist, its because its already the 'general' expectation that most other channels will be english speaking,,,they dont need to advertise 'english' in their titles, its ASSUMED as the 'norm' of the 'general' public

but when people are stuck up on the 'white' thing only , and refuse to aknowledge any bigger context,,

we will continue to have no resolutions

if its really offensive that we might have a BET, when for DECADES whites had ABC, CBS, and NBC(before cable),,,

if its really offensive that we might have an NAACP, when for DECADES whites had CONGRESS<,,lol

than, I guess the discussion is halted for many at a place of situational blindness



Nope I have been more a minority than you. And while living like that I pretty much ignored that fact. And while it still existed I didn't promote it by crying fowl and demanding "representation". Neither does my wife.



if you lived in america, you werent more of a minority.

if you arent living in america, than the concern about AMERICAN inequality wouldnt concern you.

and, btw, in america, people have a RIGHT to be represented, and expressing an interest in that right is NOT THE SAME AS promoting inequality

there is absolutely no logic to a statement that inequality is promoted when people seek to do something about it or call attention to it

do we 'promote' political ineptitude by drawing attention to it or seeking corrections for it?

do we 'promote' freedom of speech infringements by drawing attention to them or 'demanding' they be corrected?

It is clear you just will never get it,, so , Im glad for your willful ignorance on this, because it sure seems to be blissful

but it doesnt result in the same said bliss for everyone else who experiences injustices or oppression or systemic inequality,,,





msharmony's photo
Tue 07/22/14 08:31 PM

OTHER organizations don't have a separatist agenda.


NAACP doesnt have a seperatist agenda either, it has an agenda to make things more EQUAL,, huge difference,,,

msharmony's photo
Tue 07/22/14 08:34 PM
Edited by msharmony on Tue 07/22/14 08:37 PM

But of course this is because i wasn't indoctrinated since birth to think about race. I think of people as people first. And think about if I am represented as if other people are there.



lol. its amusing that you dont understand that part of the REASON you dont need to think about race is because you are born into the MAJORITY that holds the POWER and the WEALTH

smh


I dont need to think about other nationalities much, because I am mostly surrounded by americans

in switzerland, however, the nations are as close as our states, so they probably think about nationality much more often,,,,



similarly,

you dont need to think about race if the MAIN race, the MAJORITY race, the majority of those teaching you, guiding you into adulthood, the majority of images you see and lessons you learn are from and about the race you are a part of,,,


and even then, its usually a lie when people say they are race and color blind

sure seems that asian girls are a 'race' that is held apart from others in your dating preferences,, but Im sure that doesnt cross the mind when making these 'people are just people, I never see race' stuff...


Chazster's photo
Tue 07/22/14 08:36 PM




Wow race is is ingrained in your mind set you cant seperate it from anything. This is what keeps the country from moving forward.



no, what keeps it from moving forward is those who refuse to even aknowledge the reality of the benefit in being part of the majority that may sometimes cause a disadvantage , underrepresentation, or even exclusion for the minority

which , by the way, happens in more countries than america and more races than white,,,or black

for instance, hispanics are a part of the 'general' public, and we have SPANISH channels now, but that isnt because its racist, its because its already the 'general' expectation that most other channels will be english speaking,,,they dont need to advertise 'english' in their titles, its ASSUMED as the 'norm' of the 'general' public

but when people are stuck up on the 'white' thing only , and refuse to aknowledge any bigger context,,

we will continue to have no resolutions

if its really offensive that we might have a BET, when for DECADES whites had ABC, CBS, and NBC(before cable),,,

if its really offensive that we might have an NAACP, when for DECADES whites had CONGRESS<,,lol

than, I guess the discussion is halted for many at a place of situational blindness



Nope I have been more a minority than you. And while living like that I pretty much ignored that fact. And while it still existed I didn't promote it by crying fowl and demanding "representation". Neither does my wife.



if you lived in america, you werent more of a minority.

if you arent living in america, than the concern about AMERICAN inequality wouldnt concern you.

and, btw, in america, people have a RIGHT to be represented, and expressing an interest in that right is NOT THE SAME AS promoting inequality

there is absolutely no logic to a statement that inequality is promoted when people seek to do something about it or call attention to it

do we 'promote' political ineptitude by drawing attention to it or seeking corrections for it?

do we 'promote' freedom of speech infringements by drawing attention to them or 'demanding' they be corrected?

It is clear you just will never get it,, so , Im glad for your willful ignorance on this, because it sure seems to be blissful

but it doesnt result in the same said bliss for everyone else who experiences injustices or oppression or systemic inequality,,,






I argue you are the one that doesnt get it. You thing discrimination against the minority is justified because of supposed discrimination you faced. You are in fact so ignorant to this fact that you fail to even recognize it. I do not deny that racism to minorities and differential treatment exists. I do not justify it either. However, you fail to recognize discrimination against the majority in this country and the things that others claim as racism you justify. Then you try belittle others experiences because they were not in this country. Racism is racism is it not? What does country have to do with it?

msharmony's photo
Tue 07/22/14 08:43 PM
Edited by msharmony on Tue 07/22/14 08:47 PM
you are confused

by definition, a MAJORITY is rarely discriminated against, unless its a system of apartheid

and discrimination against the MINORITY is exactly what I DONT think is justified


saying racism is racism is like saying violence is violence

cliche and on the surface true

but where someone who murders with violence gets executed, someone who kills with violence AFTER someone has initiated violence upon them

in self defense is not

similarly, if I am not welcomed or included in a certain institution because of my race, that is different than if AFTER REALIZING that IM unwelcome, I gather others in my situation and form my own,,,

like I stated before, it says volumes that the people who usually dont get it are the same ones that talk out of both sides of their mouths

as in,, its somehow negative to demand representation
but its also somehow negative to represent oneself,,,


Chazster's photo
Tue 07/22/14 08:52 PM

you are confused

by definition, a MAJORITY is rarely discriminated against, unless its a system of apartheid

and discrimination against the MINORITY is exactly what I DONT think is justified


saying racism is racism is like saying violence is violence

cliche and on the surface true

but where someone who murders gets executed, someone who kills in self defense is not

similarly, if I am not welcomed or included in a certain institution because of my race, that is different than if AFTER REALIZING that IM unwelcome, I gather others in my situation and form my own,,,

like I stated before, it says volumes that the people who usually dont get it are the same ones that talk out of both sides of their mouths

as in,, its somehow negative to demand representation
but its also somehow negative to represent oneself,,,



Incorrect, majority has nothing to do with discrimination. I can prove it with the rich as an example. While they are the minority they are not discriminated against. The majority can be can be discriminated against by the minority. In fact, in countries like ours where people are so PC the minorities can be treated better than the majority. Scholarships for only minorities are fine but try to make a white only scholarship and be slammed as racist. Give a job or acceptance letter to college for someone less qualified because their "race" is under represented. That is racism. It may be positive racism to the minority but it is negative to the majority.

msharmony's photo
Tue 07/22/14 09:02 PM
Edited by msharmony on Tue 07/22/14 09:04 PM


you are confused

by definition, a MAJORITY is rarely discriminated against, unless its a system of apartheid

and discrimination against the MINORITY is exactly what I DONT think is justified


saying racism is racism is like saying violence is violence

cliche and on the surface true

but where someone who murders gets executed, someone who kills in self defense is not

similarly, if I am not welcomed or included in a certain institution because of my race, that is different than if AFTER REALIZING that IM unwelcome, I gather others in my situation and form my own,,,

like I stated before, it says volumes that the people who usually dont get it are the same ones that talk out of both sides of their mouths

as in,, its somehow negative to demand representation
but its also somehow negative to represent oneself,,,



Incorrect, majority has nothing to do with discrimination. I can prove it with the rich as an example. While they are the minority they are not discriminated against. The majority can be can be discriminated against by the minority. In fact, in countries like ours where people are so PC the minorities can be treated better than the majority. Scholarships for only minorities are fine but try to make a white only scholarship and be slammed as racist. Give a job or acceptance letter to college for someone less qualified because their "race" is under represented. That is racism. It may be positive racism to the minority but it is negative to the majority.



I am speaking of RACE. In this country, and every country, the RICH are gonna rule, and be a minority.

in terms of RACIAL minorities though, the RACE that holds the wealth is gonna rule and not be discriminated against as they will hold the power,,,

in this country, it is the white race, demographically, who have amassed throughout history the most WEALTH and POWER, so they cant be DISCRIMINATED Against, IN THIS COUNTRY, as a group.

scholarships are for all types of underserved communities, to look at american history and convince oneself that WHITES have been underserved is beyond ridiculous

but the impoverished (for which there are scholarships) have been underserved , and women (for which there are scholarships) have been underserved, and any other number of categories that WHITES can qualify for too,,


look up SITUATIONAL BLINDNESS,,,,,cause this is just going in circles,,,and Im truly tired of trying to explain it

the CONTEXT and the HISTORY have alot to do with what you keep referring to 'racist' when something applies to a minority or underserved demographic,,,,

but ignoring that fact, will just keep on with these inane complaints about the few resources that may have the reference to 'black' in them,,,

while ignoring all the resources whites ALREADY HAD SINCE THE FOUNDING, just because they dont happen to have (and wouldnt need to) a specific reference to 'white' in their name.

msharmony's photo
Tue 07/22/14 09:03 PM
Situation Blindness

“A man is sitting on a crowded bus with his two young sons. The boys are running around, crying, yelling, and fighting. It is obvious that the other passengers on the bus are being bothered by this behavior and almost everyone is looking at them, but the man just sits there staring out the window and does nothing to quiet his children.” Take a moment to visualize the scene, what it would be like to be there on that bus.”

Imagine how the above story would change for you if, at the end, a passenger turned to the man and said: “Why can’t you control you kids? Can’t you see they are bothering everyone on the bus?” The man turns to him and replies “Oh, I am so sorry, but my wife died last night, I guess none of us really know how to deal with it yet.”

The exercise above illustrates a basic human tendency known as situation blindness. In this example, learning just one thing you didn’t know already is enough to completely change your explanation of what happened, and also how you feel towards the people involved in the story. The dangerous thing is that we act without taking into account such important aspects of a situation all the time, usually without realizing it, and this tendency can be extremely difficult to spot.

Chazster's photo
Tue 07/22/14 09:23 PM



you are confused

by definition, a MAJORITY is rarely discriminated against, unless its a system of apartheid

and discrimination against the MINORITY is exactly what I DONT think is justified


saying racism is racism is like saying violence is violence

cliche and on the surface true

but where someone who murders gets executed, someone who kills in self defense is not

similarly, if I am not welcomed or included in a certain institution because of my race, that is different than if AFTER REALIZING that IM unwelcome, I gather others in my situation and form my own,,,

like I stated before, it says volumes that the people who usually dont get it are the same ones that talk out of both sides of their mouths

as in,, its somehow negative to demand representation
but its also somehow negative to represent oneself,,,



Incorrect, majority has nothing to do with discrimination. I can prove it with the rich as an example. While they are the minority they are not discriminated against. The majority can be can be discriminated against by the minority. In fact, in countries like ours where people are so PC the minorities can be treated better than the majority. Scholarships for only minorities are fine but try to make a white only scholarship and be slammed as racist. Give a job or acceptance letter to college for someone less qualified because their "race" is under represented. That is racism. It may be positive racism to the minority but it is negative to the majority.



in this country, it is the white race, demographically, who have amassed throughout history the most WEALTH and POWER, so they cant be DISCRIMINATED Against, IN THIS COUNTRY, as a group.



Wow so much racism I am speechless. You can't be discriminated against because you are the majority. So if you are in a bad area and are killed because you are white that isn't racism. If you are ever treated negatively because you are white that isn't racism? Basically you are saying that people can do anything against white people in this country just because of their race and the fact that they are the majority makes it not racist. Wow... just wow. I can't believe people are brought up with so much hate.

msharmony's photo
Tue 07/22/14 09:30 PM
Edited by msharmony on Tue 07/22/14 09:29 PM
CONTEXTUAL BLINDNESS ONCE MORE

the context of my post was 'as a group',, and 'demographically'

not 'as individuals'

I dont have hate for anyone, try reading a bit closer to what is posted.


no photo
Wed 07/23/14 06:35 AM


OTHER organizations don't have a separatist agenda.


NAACP doesnt have a seperatist agenda either, it has an agenda to make things more EQUAL,, huge difference,,,
:thumbsup:

right traditionally the NCAAP was fairly conservative and their agenda is equality and integration...(remember bussing)? They were largley responsible with the SCLC for ending "separate but equal."

It is the panthers that are the separatists & their more radicalized membership is racist. It is not the same group as the NCAAP

Sojourning_Soul's photo
Wed 07/23/14 06:41 AM

Screwed up, corrupt leadership, money, and personal agendas makes poor politics in any form

no photo
Wed 07/23/14 06:52 AM


Screwed up, corrupt leadership, money, and personal agendas makes poor politics in any form


lol what other kind of politics are there? the fact that they have to constantly sue each other to get anything done or make any progress is a good indication.....

willing2's photo
Wed 07/23/14 06:57 AM
Edited by willing2 on Wed 07/23/14 06:57 AM
NAACP has their agenda in their name.

They serve one group. N A A COLORED PEOPLE.

If, they had all US citizens interest, I would not consider them separatist. However, they represent and allow membership to only one group. Same as the NOI. ZERO WHITE OR JEWISH MEMBERS. Hmmm.

Back to taxpayers footing their bill to sue the non-black, demand quotas and special privilege.

All their employees are paid by all tax payers. Injustice.

All their rents, utilities come out of all the taxpayer pockets. Injustice.

NAACP has outlived it's usefulness.

ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, is changing its name. But no matter if it's ACORN or COI -- Community Organizations International

http://triblive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/s_630596.html#ixzz38IeXOA6J

COI, AKA ACORN, uses taxpayer funds to fraud the taxpayer. They are still very much alive and continuing with their subversive actions.







msharmony's photo
Wed 07/23/14 11:11 AM

NAACP has their agenda in their name.

They serve one group. N A A COLORED PEOPLE.

If, they had all US citizens interest, I would not consider them separatist. However, they represent and allow membership to only one group. Same as the NOI. ZERO WHITE OR JEWISH MEMBERS. Hmmm.

Back to taxpayers footing their bill to sue the non-black, demand quotas and special privilege.

All their employees are paid by all tax payers. Injustice.

All their rents, utilities come out of all the taxpayer pockets. Injustice.

NAACP has outlived it's usefulness.

ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, is changing its name. But no matter if it's ACORN or COI -- Community Organizations International

http://triblive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/s_630596.html#ixzz38IeXOA6J

COI, AKA ACORN, uses taxpayer funds to fraud the taxpayer. They are still very much alive and continuing with their subversive actions.












give it a break,, us history makes it necessary to look after the interests of the disenfranchised minorities,,the majority already has wealth and power to look after its own interests and historically has done JUST THAT..

lifting 'the least' of us DOES uplift us all,, though some refuse to see the point and feel imposed upon


and again,, non profits have access to grants, so their access to government funds is a non issue,,,