Again, this is not to say whether it be good or bad, on balance, to give cash to the homeless. I know that for some, they would prefer to limit their contributions to social service agencies that serve the homeless, in the hopes that those in need will receive assistance in a concerted and institutional way. Fine.

But let u��s not pretend that such contributions are truly palliative for the problems faced by those on the street. Such agencies often separate families (because shelters are typically sex-segregated), and have very little proven success at helping those with addiction issues get clean.

For others, they would prefer to give money only to those individuals who will offer them a product in return, such as the Contributor, which is the highly successful and genuinely well-done, twice-a month-paper produced and sold by homeless folks across the city of Nashville, where I live. And if that i��s your thing ;�� only giving to those who give you something back , so be it.

It i��s a good paper and the folks who sell it are deserving of our support. But let'��s not pretend that those who sell street papers, either in Nashville or elsewhere, might not spend at least some of the proceeds on a drink from time to time. They well might, just like you or I might have spent some of our earned income on alcohol (or, I dare say, stronger drugs) at some point.

And frankly, I don'��t care, nor can I understand why you should either. This idea, so common in the modern era, which holds that the poor should enjoy no indulgence, exhibit no vice, and partake in no pleasurable diversion whatsoever;�� be it a drink, a cigarette, color television or a cell phone ,�� while still expecting our sympathy, comes very near the definition of sadism, or so it seems to me.

Are we really suggesting that the poor should be so miserable, so benighted, so prostrated before we, their presumed betters, that their only happiness should be an occasional blast of warm air from a steam grate in the winter?

Must we demand of the poor every last shred of dignity? Of normalcy? Are we really so petty that we begrudge the homeless an occasional Bud Light or Boone’s Farm, or candy bar, or pack of Marlboros, because somehow that amounts to taking advantage of our charity? Really? Are we so cruel as to suggest that unless we can have all that we desire, neither should the poor have even one thing that they covet?

The only person who would endorse such a vicious worldview is one who had decided that the poor and destitute are poor and destitute not because of local, national or global economic conditions, but because of their own moral failings and these quite alone; and that our own successes are likewise not due to inherited advantages, luck, connections, or other factors beyond our control, but are instead the predictable outcomes of our superior character.


For if we didn'��t believe this, �� if we didn'��t believe at some level that we were simply better, and quite incapable of ever finding ourselves in the position of the beggar, �� we would never take the chance of adopting such a cavalier outlook on those who reside in that space presently, nor would we allow ourselves to believe that those who might refuse us their quarters outside Starbucks (where they just spent $3 for an overpriced espresso with steamed milk) were doing so for our own good.

They would be doing it ,�� and so many of us are in the here and now,�� not for the benefit of those to whom they insist they would be teaching a lesson (or those to whom we believe ourselves teachers in the present) but rather, out of a sense of moral and ethical superiority, which the society ,�� and not only its poor, �� can no longer afford, if we ever could.


edited from a Tim Wise article titled 'For their own Good'

I agree with the general point that Tim Wise is making.

We need not do something that would harm the morale of people trapped in physical poverty due to circumstances beyond their control.

"Ask not, what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. JFK

our country is our fellow man/woman

Good people do care so what is the point?

Mandating support for anything is not caring, it's theft, and causes resentment.....so how do gov't programs, paid through taxation and theft of the wealth of others actually help with the actual problem of people caring?

interesting, how is it theft when its constitutional in nature

taxes are a responsibility of citizenry, be it state, sales, city, tax

what its used for is never going to be something everyone paying into wishes to support,, just like we may not support everything soldiers wish to spend THEIR (taxpayer money on) ....... that's life

Someday that delusional bubble you live in will burst..... and you won't have a clue how to fend for yourself or your family.

How will you feel when you look those who might depend on you in the eye and say "I don't know how." or "I can't." or "How am I supposed to do that?"....because lady, you don't have a clue what reality is in crisis.

I wonder if you would feel the same way if you had gone thru Katrina or any other disaster with looters, thugs and robbers running wild.

lol,, newsflash, I ALREADY tell my children I don't know how we are going to meet certain needs and wants and I WORK,,lol

anyway,, you made a great point, Katrina is an example of why people should care, and an example of how tax money is used to help others,,,and why it is a responsibility of citizenry,,,

The gov't, FEMA, caused most of the problems arising from Katrina other than the effects of the storm itself.

Were you here?

How about during Ivan when FEMA screwed everyone over down here as well?

Have you ever been thru a disaster.....any disaster where the gov't got involved?

Think Iraq..... that's how the gov't helps people!

People down here are still trying to dig themselves out from under FEMAs "help"!

I agree that we should care, I also believe that "I" should have a choice of "WHOM" I care for as well.

I understand some people are homeless because of circumstances outside of their control,

However, Some are homeless because they CHOOSE to be, or even are homeless because of Circumstances IN THEIR CONTROL

Just as I choose not to give excess money to a brother who is an alcoholic doesn't mean I don't care for him, it means the exact opposite.

I talked to a young homeless man the other day, here in San Diego, he was happy to talk(apparently not many people try to have conversations with homeless individuals), he told me he always knew he would be homeless, because basically he didn't want any responsibility ever, he didn't want a job, or a boss, or any schedule. So he came to San Diego where it is warm(mostly) year round, got into drugs, and never really had a desire to better himself, I don't think my money should go to supporting that type of lifestyle CHOICE

Many people also don't know that many homeless receive checks from the state already(in most states),

Some times it is a matter of circumstance sometimes it is a matter of choice, but being taxed and having my money sent to those in need(which I wouldn't have a problem with if it only went to those who didn't choose that lifestyle), would possibly have a VERY BAD
by-product

Here is the problem, you can't separate those that choose that life either through bad actions, or deliberate choice. That being said you don't want people thinking(especially young people) that being homeless is a viable option because taxes will take care of them. If that were the case I think we would have even a higher population of homelessness than is current.

I don't want the government deciding who needs the money and who doesn't, I would rather do that myself.

ok

so....

people should care and help each other and the government is made up of humans who are capable of being greedy and incompetent


but, in spite of that, it is human virtue, and the virtue of any culture where its humans feel a responsibility to CARE FOR PEOPLE,,,

That government isn't completely incompetent, and we do have a responsibility to CARE for people.


However, THROWING MONEY AT PEOPLE is NOT CARING!

Everyone cares in different ways, if we didn't there wouldn't be all these DIFFERENT types of CHARITIES,

Food Banks
Shelters
Services
Job Help

All of these are FORMS of caring

people should qualify their statements when they lump together topics about welfare and taxes (not speaking about you personally)

people should learn the requirements for those forms of assistance their tax money goes to

if they find something that 'throws' money at people, they should question it,,, however

in my state and in most states, that WELFARE(food stamps and child assistance)come with requirements that re far from having money 'thrown' at people an would by definition not be 'thrown' to those not wanting responsibilities

there is a WORK REQUIREMENT for financial assistane(Checks), there s also an economic requirement for the food stamps program as well as a time limit for how long on can receive it

people have the RESPONSIBILITIES of checking in regularly with casewrkers, regularely and repeatedly submitting the same personal dcuments , income documents, etc,,to their caseworkers, submit proof of job activities ,,,and many other thins

too many people assume that welfare is all about 'throwing' money at people who just sit at home and waste it

and in fact, there is no way to avoid such persons at ANY income level,, but MOST people would not want to make the sacrifices and live in the social environment that poverty manifests, most would never want their kids living in it

and , to me, to trash the whole system and all that it helps because we are able to find some who misuse it

is a failing in human character

I am not speaking about Welfare, that is a whole other topic, The reason I am not speaking about Welfare is because most people I know who are on Welfare have a place to live.


I am speaking about the homeless population.

Our culture tends to think that lack of money is the only reason for homelessness, so to fix that we should give them money...if only that were the case, even our government thinks money solves everything it doesn't.


Other cultures have their own way of caring, For example in countries where Hinduism is popular the practice of Sati is seen as a form of caring,(it is whee a Widow throws herself on her dead husbands burning body so as not to be a burden to someone else) It is a vile practice(in our eyes) but one seen by them as truly kind.

Vile practice as Sati is Culturally it is looked upon as a good thing, however the choice is left to the widow, That government doesn't demand it, even though they probably see it as a good thing.

My point is, when you think you are doing something right, it may not appear so to others, and vice versa when you are doing something wrong it may appear right to others. But the actions themselves should be left up to the individual and not mandated by any government

I agree that money isn't the only reason for homelessness

people need more than money to have a home, they don't need much more than money to put something in their bellies though,,,

I think the OP Was more about the viewpoint that the homeless SHOLDNT Be given money because they MAY be spending it where we don't approve,,,

It is not the gov't job to "care" for people. It is their job to make sure our nation and rights are protected from harm, defend them, deal with interstate and coastal commerce, and allow people the opportunities of a free market, where everyone has a job who wants one, not an over regulated one in favor of banks and corporations (instead of destroying or out-sourcing them due to over-regulation, corruption and taxes)!

Give people some breathing room, a little freedom, something to look forward to, instead of over zealous restriction/regulation, labels, spying on them, bankrupting the economy, destroying their rights, their dollar, and the country in general in favor of their own greed, and you will have the nation of our birth....a land of the free (not freebie) and home of the brave (not debt slave), where people are more than willing to share the bounties it brings!

And yet again MsH.....you didn't answer my question on what disasters you have been thru requiring gov't "help".

I personally am not able to support financially living below poverty myself and taking no form of "assistance", but I am able to donate my time and products of my labors.....which support children and veteran charities.

But money isn't the only way to attain food, I wouldn't mind giving my money to an organization that supplies food for the homeless(of which many exist),

Better yet, I would rather give money to an organization who buys farmlands and staffs it with homeless workers who are allowed to take some of it with them, and if they have an abundance sell it at farmers markets and get a cut of the proceeds, however, that is difficult to do now thanks to the regulations(which the government that was 'caring') that Sojourning Soul mentions.

I am a big believer in helping those in need, but I'm not a believer in rewarding lazy behaviors.

Soujourning_Soul I appreciate your input on this topic but I would really like to keep this debate not locked,
I'm not a Mod, but I also know that talking saying something to individual members is a way to get the thread locked, can you please keep this on topic, and refrain from making about some members character and/or personal life thank you.

I also agree there are ways to get food without directly paying for the food,

but usually it requires money for homeless to GET TO THOSE organizations, or those jobs or those markets,,,in any scenario,, it starts with having the resource of money,, if you don't happen to be homeless in the immediate vicinity of a charity like you mention

unless someone is going to provide free transportation in lieu of money,,,


I don't assume lazy behavior because someone is homeless,, I give the same benefit of the doubt that they hit hard times, like any human could, but had no resources, like many other humans do, to recover with,,,

I think this is where we differ, I don't think those organizations require any money, what they require is WORK and MANPOWER There our organizations that work off of volunteer work, fundraisers, they are not "given" money. They are working for most of it, as I believe it should be, these organizations are staffed with people WHO CARE and who are there NOT FOR THE MONEY but because THEY CARE. I would rather an organization be staffed by these types of individuals than people who are there JUST FOR THE CHECK, if these organizations were mandated and government run you would lose the CARE aspect of the organization in my opinion.