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| Topic: Gay Marraige | |
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This reminds of a thread by MsHarmony where people just don't "get" other cultures and read the Bible through filters of their own culture. Back then the famous "BUTT-SEX" was used much like it is used in prisons today and it is not a prohibition on homosexuality. For example, they will point to the story of Sodom and proclaim "Hate the Homo", when the Bible itself states the story of Sodom had nothing to do with homosexuality: Ezekiel 16:49 New International Version (©2011) "'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. New Living Translation (©2007) Sodom's sins were pride, gluttony, and laziness, while the poor and needy suffered outside her door. English Standard Version (©2001) Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. New American Standard Bible (©1995) "Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009) Now this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, plenty of food, and comfortable security, but didn't support the poor and needy. International Standard Version (©2012) Look! This was the sin of your sister Sodom and her daughters: Pride, too much food, undisturbed peace, and failure to help the poor and needy. NET Bible (©2006) "'See here--this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters had majesty, abundance of food, and enjoyed carefree ease, but they did not help the poor and needy. that verse goes on to say,,,, 49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50 And they were haughty, and committed ABOMINATION before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good. Then why do I not hear you pushing for this in the Parents forum: Deuteronomy 21:18-21 “If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.” if you are truly interested my belief of the old testament is as a set of laws for a set aside people who were held to a HOLIER standard than any other because they were 'chosen' once Jesus died on the cross, during the New Testament,, there was no longer a 'chosen',, no jew or gentile,,etc all became equal and were afforded salvation through the sacrifice of Christ,,,,, Where do you get these ideas??? ...reading Reading what? If this is in the Bible, please tell me what book and verse. |
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There are several churches that will still teach against homosexuality. I know several and have visited Church of God, Baptist, Nazarene, Non-denominational. Bible does teach against it, in New Testament. God's Word stays the same, no matter how Man changes their individual way of life in this world. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders. ( I Corinthians 6:9) NIV In your opinion, what do you think "THE KINGDOM OF GOD" is? Jesus said it is WITHIN. God is omnipresent. The kingdom of God is within. God is Love. God is Love. Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know tht he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us. (I John 3:24) Niv A person can not have Jesus within, when you don't believe in the Word of God. So what, in your opinion, is the "word of God?" First a person has to have that personal relationship with Jesus to have Wisdom concerning the Truth. |
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This reminds of a thread by MsHarmony where people just don't "get" other cultures and read the Bible through filters of their own culture. Back then the famous "BUTT-SEX" was used much like it is used in prisons today and it is not a prohibition on homosexuality. For example, they will point to the story of Sodom and proclaim "Hate the Homo", when the Bible itself states the story of Sodom had nothing to do with homosexuality: Ezekiel 16:49 New International Version (©2011) "'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. New Living Translation (©2007) Sodom's sins were pride, gluttony, and laziness, while the poor and needy suffered outside her door. English Standard Version (©2001) Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. New American Standard Bible (©1995) "Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009) Now this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, plenty of food, and comfortable security, but didn't support the poor and needy. International Standard Version (©2012) Look! This was the sin of your sister Sodom and her daughters: Pride, too much food, undisturbed peace, and failure to help the poor and needy. NET Bible (©2006) "'See here--this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters had majesty, abundance of food, and enjoyed carefree ease, but they did not help the poor and needy. that verse goes on to say,,,, 49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50 And they were haughty, and committed ABOMINATION before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good. Then why do I not hear you pushing for this in the Parents forum: Deuteronomy 21:18-21 “If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.” if you are truly interested my belief of the old testament is as a set of laws for a set aside people who were held to a HOLIER standard than any other because they were 'chosen' once Jesus died on the cross, during the New Testament,, there was no longer a 'chosen',, no jew or gentile,,etc all became equal and were afforded salvation through the sacrifice of Christ,,,,, Where do you get these ideas??? ...reading Reading what? If this is in the Bible, please tell me what book and verse. The Old Testament stresses the special relationship between God and his chosen people, Israel, but includes instructions for proselytes as well. This relationship is expressed in the biblical covenant (contract) between the two, received by Moses. The law codes in books such as Exodus and especially Deuteronomy are the terms of the contract: Israel swears faithfulness to Yahweh, and God swears to be Israel's special protector and supporter (Wikipedia) In the fortieth year, on the first day of the eleventh month, Moses proclaimed to the Israelites all that the Lord had commanded him concerning them. 4 This was after he had defeated Sihon king of the Amorites, who reigned in Heshbon, and at Edrei had defeated Og king of Bashan, who reigned in Ashtaroth. Deuteronomy 1:3 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him (Romans 10:12) |
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That's it??
For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him (Romans 10:12)
Very weak Biblical evidence. Also, the term "Jew" is unclear. Some say that the term is a newly invented one, and that Judean and Jew are not the same thing. I just find it very strange and un-God like for "the God of all" to give special protection and support to a specific bloodline or group of people. But never mind. The new testament does abolish the old law apparently. |
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This is what it looks like to me, a non Christian outsider.
The man Jesus appears on the scene with a new cult, and some Christians declare him to be a God. (Other Christians who followed his teachings who disagreed are killed by the way.) This new God Jesus, changes the contract (covenant) and now his followers declare that anyone who believes in Jesus will be saved. The Jews don't like that Jesus appeared and claimed to be God or the messiah and so they don't buy it. Jews do not worship Jesus as God. Jews still have their old God. Christians essentially invented a new God, or changed Gods from the old testament to the new testament god they call Jesus. But in order to fool people and attempt to hold this new religion together with the old believers, someone decided that Jesus was the son of God. So the God of the old testament was apparently his father. Still others claim that they are one and the same... since there is supposed to only be one God right? Very confusing. |
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This is what it looks like to me, a non Christian outsider. The man Jesus appears on the scene with a new cult, and some Christians declare him to be a God. (Other Christians who followed his teachings who disagreed are killed by the way.) This new God Jesus, changes the contract (covenant) and now his followers declare that anyone who believes in Jesus will be saved. The Jews don't like that Jesus appeared and claimed to be God or the messiah and so they don't buy it. Jews do not worship Jesus as God. Jews still have their old God. Christians essentially invented a new God, or changed Gods from the old testament to the new testament god they call Jesus. But in order to fool people and attempt to hold this new religion together with the old believers, someone decided that Jesus was the son of God. So the God of the old testament was apparently his father. Still others claim that they are one and the same... since there is supposed to only be one God right? Very confusing. Shalom JB I understand (very confusing) We may see that differently but just a question for u? Do you see as confusing believing in the Bible and then saying the 1st part is old and now since Yahshua we are to pick and choose what we want from before Yahshua came? ie OT |
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Don't matter because it is unnatural anyway. Just not my job to impose my beliefs on others. It's as natural as anything else. Homosexuality occurs throughout the animal kingdom. Animals live pretty natural lives in the wild. In any case, civil law is a wholly different subject. 
Yes it does, and wolves will tear a wolf like that to shreds. Why are we suddenly talking about wolves? I hate to break this to you, my friend, but homosexual and bisexual activity is pretty common in the animal kingdom, having been observed in a multitude of species from worms to birds to mammals. And no, those who engage in it do not get "torn to shreds". Animals accept it as part of the normal spectrum of social behaviors. Humans are the ones who tear into each other over it. I think we're the species who is "unnatural" about it... because we're the only ones who pass judgment on each other. For example, dwarf chimpanzees are by default bisexual, using sexual activity to defuse conflicts and avoid physical violence. Male lions have been repeatedly observed engaging in homosexual behavior in the wild. Cetaceans such as dolphins and killer whales also engage frequently in same-sex activity. Among avian species such as ducks, geese and gulls, exclusive same-sex pairings occur in about 4% to 5% of pairs... and some of these species mate for life, which makes them not all that different from humans who marry same-sex partners. |
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Don't matter because it is unnatural anyway. Just not my job to impose my beliefs on others. It's as natural as anything else. Homosexuality occurs throughout the animal kingdom. Animals live pretty natural lives in the wild. In any case, civil law is a wholly different subject.
Yes it does, and wolves will tear a wolf like that to shreds. Why are we suddenly talking about wolves? I hate to break this to you, my friend, but homosexual and bisexual activity is pretty common in the animal kingdom, having been observed in a multitude of species from worms to birds to mammals. And no, those who engage in it do not get "torn to shreds". Animals accept it as part of the normal spectrum of social behaviors. Humans are the ones who tear into each other over it. I think we're the species who is "unnatural" about it... because we're the only ones who pass judgment on each other. For example, dwarf chimpanzees are by default bisexual, using sexual activity to defuse conflicts and avoid physical violence. Male lions have been repeatedly observed engaging in homosexual behavior in the wild. Cetaceans such as dolphins and killer whales also engage frequently in same-sex activity. Among avian species such as ducks, geese and gulls, exclusive same-sex pairings occur in about 4% to 5% of pairs... and some of these species mate for life, which makes them not all that different from humans who marry same-sex partners. well if its not all that different then I should be able to marry my Chow.. She is Beautiful |
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This is what it looks like to me, a non Christian outsider. The man Jesus appears on the scene with a new cult, and some Christians declare him to be a God. (Other Christians who followed his teachings who disagreed are killed by the way.) This new God Jesus, changes the contract (covenant) and now his followers declare that anyone who believes in Jesus will be saved. The Jews don't like that Jesus appeared and claimed to be God or the messiah and so they don't buy it. Jews do not worship Jesus as God. Jews still have their old God. Christians essentially invented a new God, or changed Gods from the old testament to the new testament god they call Jesus. But in order to fool people and attempt to hold this new religion together with the old believers, someone decided that Jesus was the son of God. So the God of the old testament was apparently his father. Still others claim that they are one and the same... since there is supposed to only be one God right? Very confusing. Aaaaaand this would be why I'm a Unitarian Universalist. Yes, two heretical faiths for the price of one! Some of us identify as Christian, while some of us do not. The portion of our theology that can be identified as Christian works this way: We don't believe Jesus was God. (Which is why we're Unitarian rather than Trinitarian.) We don't believe in exclusive salvation for some and eternal damnation for others. (Which is why we're Universalist rather than exclusivist.) As you might expect, our spiritual ancestors suffered some persecution in Europe, going all the way back to Christian Rome, as ours is a faith which shares roots with similar-thinking "heretical" branches of Christianity that date back to the 2nd century (although Unitarianism and Universalism themselves did not come into existence until the 16th century). |
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This is what it looks like to me, a non Christian outsider. The man Jesus appears on the scene with a new cult, and some Christians declare him to be a God. (Other Christians who followed his teachings who disagreed are killed by the way.) This new God Jesus, changes the contract (covenant) and now his followers declare that anyone who believes in Jesus will be saved. The Jews don't like that Jesus appeared and claimed to be God or the messiah and so they don't buy it. Jews do not worship Jesus as God. Jews still have their old God. Christians essentially invented a new God, or changed Gods from the old testament to the new testament god they call Jesus. But in order to fool people and attempt to hold this new religion together with the old believers, someone decided that Jesus was the son of God. So the God of the old testament was apparently his father. Still others claim that they are one and the same... since there is supposed to only be one God right? Very confusing. Aaaaaand this would be why I'm a Unitarian Universalist. Yes, two heretical faiths for the price of one! Some of us identify as Christian, while some of us do not. The portion of our theology that can be identified as Christian works this way: We don't believe Jesus was God. (Which is why we're Unitarian rather than Trinitarian.) We don't believe in exclusive salvation for some and eternal damnation for others. (Which is why we're Universalist rather than exclusivist.) As you might expect, our spiritual ancestors suffered some persecution in Europe, going all the way back to Christian Rome, as ours is a faith which shares roots with similar-thinking "heretical" branches of Christianity that date back to the 2nd century (although Unitarianism and Universalism themselves did not come into existence until the 16th century). You are not exclusive because my faith says the same thing |
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Edited by
ViaMusica
on
Sat 06/29/13 02:48 PM
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I hate to break this to you, my friend, but homosexual and bisexual activity is pretty common in the animal kingdom, having been observed in a multitude of species from worms to birds to mammals. And no, those who engage in it do not get "torn to shreds". Animals accept it as part of the normal spectrum of social behaviors. Humans are the ones who tear into each other over it. I think we're the species who is "unnatural" about it... because we're the only ones who pass judgment on each other. For example, dwarf chimpanzees are by default bisexual, using sexual activity to defuse conflicts and avoid physical violence. Male lions have been repeatedly observed engaging in homosexual behavior in the wild. Cetaceans such as dolphins and killer whales also engage frequently in same-sex activity. Among avian species such as ducks, geese and gulls, exclusive same-sex pairings occur in about 4% to 5% of pairs... and some of these species mate for life, which makes them not all that different from humans who marry same-sex partners. well if its not all that different then I should be able to marry my Chow.. She is Beautiful In what way is a duck mating with another duck of the same gender is the same as a male human mating with a female dog? In any case, marriage in the United States is only permitted between two human beings who 1. have reached the age of consent, 2. are not currently married to anyone else, and 3. are mentally competent to sign a binding contract. A dog is not human, is not permitted to sign a contract, and cannot consent to marriage, so I guess you're out of luck. |
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I hate to break this to you, my friend, but homosexual and bisexual activity is pretty common in the animal kingdom, having been observed in a multitude of species from worms to birds to mammals. And no, those who engage in it do not get "torn to shreds". Animals accept it as part of the normal spectrum of social behaviors. Humans are the ones who tear into each other over it. I think we're the species who is "unnatural" about it... because we're the only ones who pass judgment on each other. For example, dwarf chimpanzees are by default bisexual, using sexual activity to defuse conflicts and avoid physical violence. Male lions have been repeatedly observed engaging in homosexual behavior in the wild. Cetaceans such as dolphins and killer whales also engage frequently in same-sex activity. Among avian species such as ducks, geese and gulls, exclusive same-sex pairings occur in about 4% to 5% of pairs... and some of these species mate for life, which makes them not all that different from humans who marry same-sex partners. well if its not all that different then I should be able to marry my Chow.. She is Beautiful In what way is a duck mating with another duck of the same gender is the same as a male human mating with a female dog? In any case, marriage in the United States is only permitted between two human beings who 1. have reached the age of consent, 2. are not currently married to anyone else, and 3. are mentally competent to sign a binding contract. A dog is not human, is not permitted to sign a contract, and cannot consent to marriage, so I guess you're out of luck. oh I was having fun.. Just because u said animals r not that much different than us. I agree to a point.. they for one show emotion.. treat u the way u treat them.. if I go to say a persons house.. how a pet acts tells me a lot about them. most people say they are confused they not all some that they never seen their pet act like they do to me.. they want to say cuddle up to me ( if only humans felt the same way  ) animals have a very high awareness of danger and mean pets usually learn that somewhere
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This is what it looks like to me, a non Christian outsider. The man Jesus appears on the scene with a new cult, and some Christians declare him to be a God. (Other Christians who followed his teachings who disagreed are killed by the way.) This new God Jesus, changes the contract (covenant) and now his followers declare that anyone who believes in Jesus will be saved. The Jews don't like that Jesus appeared and claimed to be God or the messiah and so they don't buy it. Jews do not worship Jesus as God. Jews still have their old God. Christians essentially invented a new God, or changed Gods from the old testament to the new testament god they call Jesus. But in order to fool people and attempt to hold this new religion together with the old believers, someone decided that Jesus was the son of God. So the God of the old testament was apparently his father. Still others claim that they are one and the same... since there is supposed to only be one God right? Very confusing. Shalom JB I understand (very confusing) We may see that differently but just a question for u? Do you see as confusing believing in the Bible and then saying the 1st part is old and now since Yahshua we are to pick and choose what we want from before Yahshua came? ie OT I'm not sure I understand your question Miles. |
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Edited by
Milesoftheusa
on
Sat 06/29/13 03:43 PM
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This is what it looks like to me, a non Christian outsider. The man Jesus appears on the scene with a new cult, and some Christians declare him to be a God. (Other Christians who followed his teachings who disagreed are killed by the way.) This new God Jesus, changes the contract (covenant) and now his followers declare that anyone who believes in Jesus will be saved. The Jews don't like that Jesus appeared and claimed to be God or the messiah and so they don't buy it. Jews do not worship Jesus as God. Jews still have their old God. Christians essentially invented a new God, or changed Gods from the old testament to the new testament god they call Jesus. But in order to fool people and attempt to hold this new religion together with the old believers, someone decided that Jesus was the son of God. So the God of the old testament was apparently his father. Still others claim that they are one and the same... since there is supposed to only be one God right? Very confusing. Shalom JB I understand (very confusing) We may see that differently but just a question for u? Do you see as confusing believing in the Bible and then saying the 1st part is old and now since Yahshua we are to pick and choose what we want from before Yahshua came? ie OT I'm not sure I understand your question Miles. What I am asking is Do you see if the creator expressed in the bible who knows all sees all a contradiction saying since Yahshua's Death. That he would change what is said in the OT.. would u see that as an unfair creator to everyone who died before Yahshua came? Ps.. could u do me a favor. A picture I want to upload will not.. says to large.. do u know how I make it smaller? thanks JB |
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You need a program that can re size pictures. I use Paintshop pro 7.
There is probably one on your computer somewhere. |
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You need a program that can re size pictures. I use Paintshop pro 7. There is probably one on your computer somewhere. yea I have cyberlink but can't figure out how.. I will figure it out thanks |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sat 06/29/13 04:10 PM
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Do you see if the creator expressed in the bible who knows all sees all a contradiction saying since Yahshua's Death. That he would change what is said in the OT.. would u see that as an unfair creator to everyone who died before Yahshua came?
There are many books in the Bible, which were written by different people, who (it is claimed) were "inspired by God" to write. Correct? (Incidentally, I believe all creative writings are inspired by Spirit/God.) Some of the things written by men about God/spirit that are in the Bible seem true to me. Like the omnipresent nature of God. Does Spirit/God know all and see all? Probably, but I do not believe there is any individual diety/entity (separate from the whole) who contains all information and knows everything. As for contradictions, there are obviously a lot of them in the Bible. I don't see any connection between the character of Jesus (or Yahshua) and the God of War depicted in the old testament, who got personally involved with war between humans. Even in the old testament, there seems to be a lot of different opinions about the nature of God and what he did and did not do. Therefore, I can't agree that the Bible is much different than any other book. Certainly not the "word of God." |
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Do you see if the creator expressed in the bible who knows all sees all a contradiction saying since Yahshua's Death. That he would change what is said in the OT.. would u see that as an unfair creator to everyone who died before Yahshua came?
There are many books in the Bible, which were written by different people, who (it is claimed) were "inspired by God" to write. Correct? (Incidentally, I believe all creative writings are inspired by Spirit/God.) Some of the things written by men about God/spirit that are in the Bible seem true to me. Like the omnipresent nature of God. Does Spirit/God know all and see all? Probably, but I do not believe there is any individual diety/entity (separate from the whole) who contains all information and knows everything. As for contradictions, there are obviously a lot of them in the Bible. I don't see any connection between the character of Jesus (or Yahshua) and the God of War depicted in the old testament, who got personally involved with war between humans. Even in the old testament, there seems to be a lot of different opinions about the nature of God and what he did and did not do. Therefore, I can't agree that the Bible is much different than any other book. Certainly not the "word of God." Thanks JB I like u saying it the way u see it.. I respect that.. Download a pic resizer from download . com and it worked 
Figure the pic symbolizes who many see me as
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sat 06/29/13 05:04 PM
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RE: I stated that God is omnipresent, thus God is within.
Toodygirl5 said: A person can not have Jesus within, when you don't believe in the Word of God. (BTW: I did not say that "Jesus is within. I said that God is within. My question to her was: So what, in your opinion, is the "word of God?" Her answer was: "First a person has to have that personal relationship with Jesus to have Wisdom concerning the Truth." I can see that you are repeating what you have been told and probably what you say you believe to be true. These are your religious beliefs, and your statements are not making any logical sense to me. The are simply statements with no reason or substance. I look for truth in all things and I apply a certain process in ascertaining truth. I don't simply believe something just because some religious authority repeats it to me over and over again. For you to make such statements like that simply ring very loudly as false and hypnotic, and they indicate to me that you are in a trance state and are repeating something you have been told by the Christian cult you are a member of. I had some questions for you but you ignored them, or preferred a different answer that avoided the question. That's okay. I know what your answers would be. You believe that the Bible is the word of God, and that Jesus is God and that you can have a personal relationship with him. You believe that anyone who does not agree and believe the same as you do is wrong, can't see "the truth" and can't possibly have the spirit of God within them. I now know that having a real somewhat logical conversation with you is impossible. I am convinced now, (and I'm sure you will disagree) that you are in a trance state. |
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Speaking I am NOT accept legal marriage gay! Ridiculous n horrible
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