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well,Freedom Of Speech can and does have consequences! everything has consequencs we just don't always expect one of them to be assault,,lol,,,, but now we know,, I guess  How can you not expect it? Gangs..familia...crips...bloods...mafia...crack heads....random child thugs in hoodies.....racists.. You dont expect assault? Good for you. I wish I was that pure and safe. Enjoy it. |
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Sounds like an excuse.
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Psst... Krupa... I think MsHarmony's point was that she didn't expect assault to be one of the consequences of free speech.
And she's right; it shouldn't be. Free speech is legal in this country. Beating someone "until they pee" isn't, at least not unless in a UFC match or something. This country is supposed to be under the rule of law, not the rule of whoever doesn't like something and is willing to punch someone else over it. That's why we call ourselves "civilized", although it seems to me that often those who rail the most about how our civilized values seem to have waned are also first in line to talk about beating someone's azz. The cognitive dissonance is staggering. Just a thought for the day. |
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Two words: First Amendment. Yeah... freedom of speech and expression means that even expressions we personally might dislike or disagree with are protected. Also: Agreed that a flag is a symbol. My father served in not one, but TWO branches of the military (first Army, then Navy), before, during and after the Korean War. He was always the first one to say that he did not serve to protect a flag, but to honor the people of the US... and he also always said that the moment the citizens of a nation started making a bigger deal out of symbols than of their fellow human beings, that nation was in all likelihood in BIG trouble. "Nazi Germany," he said, "was a prime example of that. Never forget what history teaches." My father had flaws, but he was wise beyond measure on things like this. Anyone who wants to argue his positions personally will have to take it up with him in the Great Beyond, but as for me, I think I will honor his memory by heeding his words. Nobody here (that I know of) is denying that Lil Wayne has freedom of speech. However, you can acknowledge his freedom of speech and at the same time criticize him for doing what he did to the American flag. true, I don't criticize him, I didn't see any willful disrespect, I saw him walk around in his mark for a video, where there was also a flag on the ground,,, Uh, it is willful disrespect to allow an American flag to touch the ground. |
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Okay...cool.
Consider this... Law abiding civil countries put people to death with electric chairs...lethal injections and hangings. I was just talking about a simple butt kicking. If you skirts want to pretend it shouldn't happen...great...You got my vote. You should run for president. Let me know how it goes. |
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well,Freedom Of Speech can and does have consequences! everything has consequencs we just don't always expect one of them to be assault,,lol,,,, but now we know,, I guess There are many ways to skin a Cat!   "There are many ways to skin a cat" But the pro's use Husqavarna... felled, ripped & crosscut  Make Husqavarna your chose today |
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Edited by
ViaMusica
on
Thu 06/27/13 11:00 AM
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For anyone who's at all foggy on the intersection between flag etiquette and the First Amendment:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Flag_Code Important quote from the above link: "This is a U.S. federal law, but there is no penalty for failure to comply with it. In fact, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that punitive enforcement would conflict with the First Amendment right to freedom of speech." So there we have it. Whatshisface may have disrespected the flag, but the First Amendment gives him the right to do so. And since we do have laws against assault, nobody has the right to do him violence over it. The right to make a whole bunch of noise over it? Absolutely, because that's covered under the First Amendment too. But beating him? No. |
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Okay...cool. Consider this... Law abiding civil countries put people to death with electric chairs...lethal injections and hangings. I was just talking about a simple butt kicking. If you skirts want to pretend it shouldn't happen...great...You got my vote. You should run for president. Let me know how it goes. Another excuse. |
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well,Freedom Of Speech can and does have consequences! everything has consequencs we just don't always expect one of them to be assault,,lol,,,, but now we know,, I guess There are many ways to skin a Cat! "There are many ways to skin a cat" But the pro's use Husqavarna... felled, ripped & crosscut Make Husqavarna your chose today 
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Show me someone born and raised in the USA who says that there is nothing disrespectful about allowing the American flag to touch the ground, and I will show you someone who is naive about flag etiquette.
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I have deleted a few post out Please keep the insults out of the forums...
Everyone has a opinion just because someone does not like someones opinion it does not give you the right to attack them... Keep it at in a debate form or move on.. Site Mod Kristi |
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Show me someone born and raised in the USA who says that there is nothing disrespectful about allowing the American flag to touch the ground, and I will show you someone who is naive about flag etiquette. This isn't about flag etiquette so much as about freedom of speech, though. At least not the way I see it. I've never seen a group of people get this worked up over a music video before... |
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Show me someone born and raised in the USA who says that there is nothing disrespectful about allowing the American flag to touch the ground, and I will show you someone who is naive about flag etiquette. Right here...Hit me. |
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This isn't about flag etiquette so much as about freedom of speech, though. At least not the way I see it. It is about both flag etiquette and freedom of speech. In the name of free speech, someone violated flag etiquette. A person does not have to deny the violation of flag etiquette in order to acknowledge the freedom of speech. |
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Two words: First Amendment. Yeah... freedom of speech and expression means that even expressions we personally might dislike or disagree with are protected. Also: Agreed that a flag is a symbol. My father served in not one, but TWO branches of the military (first Army, then Navy), before, during and after the Korean War. He was always the first one to say that he did not serve to protect a flag, but to honor the people of the US... and he also always said that the moment the citizens of a nation started making a bigger deal out of symbols than of their fellow human beings, that nation was in all likelihood in BIG trouble. "Nazi Germany," he said, "was a prime example of that. Never forget what history teaches." My father had flaws, but he was wise beyond measure on things like this. Anyone who wants to argue his positions personally will have to take it up with him in the Great Beyond, but as for me, I think I will honor his memory by heeding his words. Nobody here (that I know of) is denying that Lil Wayne has freedom of speech. However, you can acknowledge his freedom of speech and at the same time criticize him for doing what he did to the American flag. true, I don't criticize him, I didn't see any willful disrespect, I saw him walk around in his mark for a video, where there was also a flag on the ground,,, Uh, it is willful disrespect to allow an American flag to touch the ground. ok, perhaps they shouldnt sell it as a product then,,,perhaps it should only be in government institutions as long as its a product someone bought, its the purchasers choice how to use it,,, |
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This isn't about flag etiquette so much as about freedom of speech, though. At least not the way I see it. It is about both flag etiquette and freedom of speech. In the name of free speech, someone violated flag etiquette. A person does not have to deny the violation of flag etiquette in order to acknowledge the freedom of speech. 'etiquette' is about culture, not everyone shares or knows about all 'cultures' and their etiquette it is not a law,, therefore not illegal some may think its improper, some may be aware of a flag 'etiquette', many probably are not,, and that does not prove an intention to be disrespectful |
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well,Freedom Of Speech can and does have consequences! everything has consequencs we just don't always expect one of them to be assault,,lol,,,, but now we know,, I guess There are many ways to skin a Cat! "There are many ways to skin a cat" But the pro's use Husqavarna... felled, ripped & crosscut Make Husqavarna your chose today Oh so your a Stihl guy eh Well like you said "there's moore than one way to skin a cat." but I prefer Husqavarna 
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I'm not up to date with l"il Wayne or his music or video but there have been many before him and will be many after him that have strong anti american sentiment that will be expressed with venom.Freedom of expression is one of our rights and if he did disrespect the flag of this country that thousands of others have died for then its his cross to bear. I will just change the channel and not let someone get me all worked up or mad because then they win.God Bless all our troops who are dying or paying the price for all our freedoms.
Side note to JT you should'nt bother with that stuff anyway you should concentrate on whats really important like in your case( BOOBIES!!) LOL |
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This isn't about flag etiquette so much as about freedom of speech, though. At least not the way I see it. It is about both flag etiquette and freedom of speech. In the name of free speech, someone violated flag etiquette. A person does not have to deny the violation of flag etiquette in order to acknowledge the freedom of speech. 'etiquette' is about culture, not everyone shares or knows about all 'cultures' and their etiquette it is not a law,, therefore not illegal some may think its improper, some may be aware of a flag 'etiquette', many probably are not,, and that does not prove an intention to be disrespectful Even if disrespect was not intended, it did occur. I understand if one person working on the video didn't know how disrespectful it was to allow the American flag to touch the ground, but what about everyone else who worked on the video? |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Thu 06/27/13 05:21 PM
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This isn't about flag etiquette so much as about freedom of speech, though. At least not the way I see it. It is about both flag etiquette and freedom of speech. In the name of free speech, someone violated flag etiquette. A person does not have to deny the violation of flag etiquette in order to acknowledge the freedom of speech. 'etiquette' is about culture, not everyone shares or knows about all 'cultures' and their etiquette it is not a law,, therefore not illegal some may think its improper, some may be aware of a flag 'etiquette', many probably are not,, and that does not prove an intention to be disrespectful Even if disrespect was not intended, it did occur. I understand if one person working on the video didn't know how disrespectful it was to allow the American flag to touch the ground, but what about everyone else who worked on the video? what about them? do you believe this 'flag etiquette' is just naturally engrained into all americans in america? or that they all take it to the extreme that flag worshippers do? Im edcated and knew nothing about some provision that a flag or anything else I have purchased cant be on the ground,,,, in ART,, people use symbolism,,, why would an artist believe he couldnt in the land of the 'free'? |
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