1. Only a male and female can produce children – not the full story.
Homosexuals are no less capable of producing eggs or sperm than heterosexuals. It all still works the same way typically, one egg and one sperm. The egg and sperm do not have to come from a man and woman who are married and a child does not have to be the product of simultaneous male/female copulation.

THEREFORE - Just because two same gendered individuals decide to marry does not delegitimize their potential to produce viable offspring. So the argument that presumes to place the potential of one male/female over any other male/female to produce offspring is illogical.

2. Having a male and female dominated home produces the best outcome for children. The available studies do not indicate that two parent, same-sex households have any worse results than two parent heterosexual households.

THEREFORE – the sexual orientation of any given couple does not preclude their potential for producing their own children, or taking in (adopting) and raising children to become healthy well-adjusted, productive and civil minded citizens.

Next argument: Children need both a male and a female role model.
To respond we must first debate what is meant by the terms ‘male role model’ and ‘female role model’.

When providing that information please explain the importance of role differences and why they can only be assimilated by children who are raised in a two parent heterosexual household.

OK – so, without entertaining off topic and unrelated discussions, such as incest, are there any other reasons not to accept and even endorse the value of same-sex marriage?

1. an egg and a sperm,,, a woman and a male
two men cant recreate that,, one will not be the parent
two women cant recreate that, one will not be the parent

so the argument that same sex couples cant produce a child TOGETHER,, is not false.

2. there are studies of the significant impact of the relationship between both the opposite gender and same gender parent to their child,,,

intentional abscence of either of those parents is robbing the child,,,

3. children raised by two adults who loved each other FIRST before creating the child, ,self explanatory benefits...

a father can raise a girl, BUT he cannot relate to what she will go through becoming a YOUNGB WOMAN,, only a MOTHER can do th at

a mother can raise a girl without a father, but there are any number of studies that show the implications of FATHERLESS homes,,,they dont specify why they are fatherless,,,


a mother can raise a boy without a fahter, but she cannot relate to what he will go trhough becoming a YOUNG MAN, only a father can do that


a father can raise a boy without a mother, but there are any number of studies showing the impact on children who dont grow up with the love of their mother,,,,


both genders are as significant in raising as they are in producing children,,,

This seems a curious statement to me.
There are people that identify as [insert political group]?
Over here we just vote for the guy/party that is least full of **** and promises to do stuff we want.
I mean.. they're -political- parties. Why would you ever want to be more associated with them than you absolutely have to?



Oh, I do!
Because the child is still not mentally mature and does not have the experience or wisdom to realize the implications of any choice it makes beyond the short-term?

For siblings, I'd say they could totally be married - but not have children, at least not until we find a way to safely undo the damage it does to the child's DNA.
I also think people with severely debilitating and hereditary diseases should not be allowed to have childrn until the disease can, at the very least, be fixed in children.
Both these are to avoid bringing children into the world whose entire lives will be miserable.

I also feel that I should post this here, because it's probably making a really accurate foretelling - I apologize in advance for the harsh language:




That comparison doesn't seem quite accurate.
Isn't it more like everyone isn't ok with having their home searched or their persons searched at the airport, but you being okay with having other people's homes and persons searched at the airport?
With other words - they want to enjoy a right (marrying the one you love) that you already have?

Love is blind... Justice is suppose to be as well.

I should have a right to marry whomever I choose regardless of anyone else's preferences or insecurities.

My preferences, like my religion should be a personal choice protected by the government that my taxes support.

Six pages of bullchit to get to the "fact of the matter"....WELL DONE Teddy!

marrying 'who you love' is not a RIGHT

and I was speaking about ocnsentual adult sex

we dont prohibit marriage of anyone else based upon their genetic likelihood of 'defective children'

its not illegal to abort

women have say over their own body and who they will or wont give birth to


none of that is relevant if we are going to claim we should all have the right to 'marry who we love'


so, again I say, if two adult siblings or an adult child or other is in love with their adult parent,,, why isnt their 'right' to marry seen as so much different than the right of two with the SAME ANATOMY?

a consenting adult in love has the 'right' to marry ,, right?

how is a CONTRACT with the government a 'personal' choice?

who we screw,, yea, personal
who we commit to, yes personal

who we 'marry', public and contractual

and comparing the struggle of black folks with that of gay folks is quite insulting,, in my opinion


show me the social/financial history of oppression of those who LABEL THEMSELVES As gay compared to that of those who were labeled by others as 'negro',,,,,,?

sorry, but who we lay is quite a different story than who our ancestors were,,,and quite a bit more under our control

as is public knowledge of it,,,,in the crib they knew I Was black,,,when do people know someone is homosexual before they 'come out' and make it public knowledge?


'race' is socially constructed, sexual preference is self labeled,,,GENDER is a biological reality

until recently all who are either male or female have the RIGHT to marry a non related, consenting adult of the opposite gender

,,,changing the definition to some 'right' to marry

'whoever we want', gives a special consideration to what people label themself

its quite different than the oppression blacks went through just being born from the wrong ancestors,,,


or women went through being born with the wrong biological bits

,,these are things people have NO CONTROL OVER AT ALL

sexual preference,, does not fall in that category,,,

Lol. I'd be curious, if I cared, what research you have done to support your argument. It is being scientifically proven the people do not choose to be gay, no more than they choose to be a particulars race.

This argument, as well as any argument comes down to personal preference and insecurity.

Have a great day

actually, it has not been 'scientifically' proven at all,,

lol


its been socially argued,,,no scientific or medical proof

I personally know a few who have had different 'preferences' at different times in their lives

I know noone who has been different races, or genders througouth their lifetime,,,,

Could be bigotry, hatred, and a desire for equality drives them back into the closet...I don't know and neither do you....

As to part two, what about gender reassignment surgery?...

Let me get this straight.
You genuinely, honestly, believe that people choose to be sexually attracted to things?
I mean.. are you attracted to everything, (men, women, children, darkness, women with male genitalia, fat people, feet, etc), and have consciously decided to declare to the world that you only like one of these things (men)?

Because I should tell you now, I don't feel that way, and I'm very, very sure that most people don't (although there probably is some kind of "Omniphilia"), we just grow up and starting noticing girls/boys/whatever when we get into puberty - completely out of our control.

There's also this quote "Can A Person’s Orientation Be Changed?
—Science is firmly on the path of estab-
lishing the innate nature of the trait of homosexuality. The preponderance of the evi-
dence would lead any rational person to conclude that biology, not choice, drives
sexual orientation—both gay and straight. Despite the attempts of a tiny minority of
therapists and pseudo-therapists to “change” a person’s sexual orientation, they
have not been successful. This minority attempts to repress outward behavior and
claim this repression is evidence of a change in actual orientation. Countless nation-
al and international medical and scientific organizations are on record opposing this
false and harmful “therapy.”"

from this book on the subject:
http://libertyeducationforum.org/docs/whitepapers/is_it_a_choice_white_paper.pdf

None of this is meant as offense, I just want to know that we're on the same ground, 'cause I've never in my life consciously made a choice to like girls (particularly ones that want to dress up like Armored Super-Nuns and beat the crap out of monsters, demons and aliens in roleplaying or videogames).

what about the ones that have changed/switched? does the book offer any suggestions as to why that choice[/] was made?

Now, changing your physical gender is absolutely a choice (though the desire to do so is biological and isn't any more a choice than any other psychological deviations, I think).
I do find it creepy as all hell though.

Which is not to say I'd consider them worth less as people or deny them rights that I have - or even disinclined to interact with them.
It kind of makes me curious about how they think and feel, actually.

<== Naive kid searching for information Man Was Not Meant To Know. :P

that's where i get lost on this whole GM situation... nobody has anymore or less rights then the person next to them.
people say they don't "choose" who they fall in love with, but that is a lie. the feelings themselves may not be a choice, but choosing to pursue it or not is always a choice.
I think long term same sex couples should have everything that a hetero couple should have as far as benefits, but that's about as far as I'm going with that statement...

Agree, creepy as hell ....But there does seem to be a lot of facts supporting the rationale behind gender reassignment surgery...

What are those facts? Most of us are pretty solidly and traditionally male or female. Most men bear XY chromosomes in every cell of their bodies (sperm excepted), and are sexually attracted to women. Most women carry XX chromosomes and dig dudes. But a large minority of people don’t fall into these two categories. For example, some folks have XXY chromosomes. Some have XX chromosomes in some cells of their body and XY in others—those rare, true hermaphrodites.

More common than these chromosomal variations are other variations in gender. For instance, consider someone with XY chromosomes who will either experience low testosterone levels in utero (that is, while still inside Mamma’s womb) or who for some reason or other failed to transport that testosterone into its brain cells during that formative period. Would it be surprising to find out that this person might have a male body and a female brain? Could this explain why so many transgender people describe themselves as “a woman trapped in a man’s body”?

Once again, I am not an expert on variation in sexuality and gender. Instead, I am a physician who’s seen enough variation across my own patients that I am inclined to trust the experts. And the gynecologists, urologists and endocrinologists I have spoken with about this topic have consistently encouraged me to broaden my understanding of gender, and accept that not everyone can be placed into the two groups most of us have been taught to view as “natural.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterubel/2012/10/04/is-sex-reassignment-surgery-a-basic-human-right/

and...

Popular opinion has it that Gender Reassignment Surgery (GRS, often popularly nicknamed "sex change surgery") is a cosmetic issue and motivated by a simple "want" to be female or male, by someone who was not born as such. However, extensive medical research into transsexuality dating as far back as the 1920s and continuing through modern studies have demonstrated otherwise, and consequently, medical standards of care have included GRS as a necessary procedure for decades.
The experience of being transsexual involves one's entire identity. They attempt to hide who they are, living a lie that feels unnatural in order to live up to others' expectations, the hiding driven by a spiralling sense of shame and self-loathing, until it becomes an experience many liken to "suffocating," or vents itself in an explosion of frustration. Transsexuals are unable to explain why they feel that their gender should be something different than their birth sex, and sometimes spend years attempting to mask themselves, to "pass" as the gender that society expects them to be. This restricts their ability to function socially, emotionally, psychically, spiritually, economically (it’s hard to be productive while constantly feeling out of one’s element and/or “backwards”), maybe sexually, and leaves them often suicidal as a result. If this continues into later adulthood, often a crisis point is reached in which the person suffers a complete emotional collapse.
“Gender Dysphoria” is the name for this condition, and treatment follows the standards of care established by the World Professional Association of Transgender Health (WPATH, formerly HBIGDA), which includes GRS. No less than the American Medical Association has stepped forward advocating the necessity of surgery and its coverage. In fact, like the AMA, the American Psychiatric Association and their Canadian counterparts support GRS as a medically necessary part of treatment. It was partly for this reason that the Ontario Human Rights Commission ruled in 2008 that that Province should restore coverage of the procedure.

Treatment of Gender Dysphoria encorporates surgical and endocrine intervention, because analytical and aversion therapies have historically proven damaging. As much as mainstream society would like to believe that electroshock therapy, anti-psychotic drugs or conversion ("ex-gay") therapy would help transsexuals “just get over it,” modern medicine has realized that this approach simply does not work, and usually results in suppression, suicide or extreme anti-social behaviour. Aligning body to mind, however, has enabled transsexuals to become valued and successful people in society. There are, in fact, a few transsexuals who feel that they can live without having GRS, but they are the exception and not the rule.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/07/1072072/-Why-Sex-Change-Surgery-is-Medically-Necessary-Revisited

We used to think the world was flat.
Then we came to our senses.

We used to think it was okay to own slaves.
Then we came to our senses.

We used to think women were lesser beings, and shouldn't have a voice- either in politics, or elsewhere.
Then we came to our senses.

We used to think witches could destroy you with their minds, so we killed thousands.
Then we came to our senses.

We still think that man should only be with woman, and that man and man or woman and woman shouldn't be together- for all the harm it would do to "Family Values". Yeah, right. I have never seen a Gay/Lesbian/Transgender person trying to recruit people to play on their team. It doesn't happen.
When will we come to our senses?

We used to think that Black and white together is wrong.
When will we come to our senses?

If it does no harm to another LIVING (Not just human) being, and it doesn't involve YOU... Keep your flippin opinions, and your ugly faces to yourself.

I came to my senses.


BTW. I am a Republican, if that really matters.

wow... you voice your opinion, but tell everyone else to to shut up about theirs while voicing it... very nice...

Not what I'm saying at all. Maybe I didn't state it clear enough. I believe in the US Constitution, and what it states. If your constitutional right infringes on someone else's rights, then something is wrong.

Everyone has the right to their own opinions. And everyone has the right to do what they want, as long as it does not harm others.

When fred phelps, and the hillsboro Baptist church goes to the funerals of police, military, and firefighters carrying banners and signs declaring that God hates homosexuals, and since the government says that homosexuals are here, and that they can serve in the military without any repercussions, they are infringing on the right of those assembled at the funeral to honor the deceased.

Do they have the right to protest? YES. But, at the same time, their right to protest is violating the rights of others at the same time.

My opinion is just my opinion. I have my right to state it, as well as someone else has the right to not listen to it, and/or state their own in rebuttal.

When my bloodline came to the US, they were faced with signs everywhere that stated "Irish need not apply" or "No Irish allowed", or "No Catholics". Just like up until Equal Rights was signed into law in the 60s, when there were signs saying "Whites only", or "No Colored". This, luckily, has changed for all of the aforementioned. Next, hopefully will be equal rights for GLT, and mixed couples.

Why shouldn't they be as miserable in marriage as the rest of us.. J/K

"All men(and women) are created equal". Let us try to someday put that into practice, and not just have it be words on paper.

Are you obsessed with incest or what? You have the hardest time staying on topic in this thread! Even after several times of asking you to stay on topic, you continue to bring up incest.

Anyway, others have already given my reasons against incest. However, if you're not going to have children, I don't really care who you decide to have sex with, as long as it's an adult.