New York Times: 'Experts' (?) Say Israel Must Admit 'Historic Grievances' of Terrorist Group Hamas


Published: 11/19/2012 11:15 AM ET
By Clay Waters



Saturday's New York Times front page featured former Jerusalem bureau chief Ethan Bronner's take on the rockets being fired into Israel from Gaza: "Israel, Battlefield Altered, Takes a Tougher Approach." Bronner, whose coverage as bureau chief was not sympathetic toward Israel's side of the conflict, subtly suggested (via the trick of the phrase "many analysts and diplomats outside Israel") that responsible people say Israel must compromise with Hamas, the terrorist group that controls Gaza. As if that country doesn't have tons of enemies among the intelligentsia.

With rockets landing on the outskirts of Tel Aviv and Jerusalem on Friday and the Egyptian prime minister making a solidarity visit to Gaza, the accelerating conflict between Israel and Hamas -- reminiscent in many ways of so many previous battles -- has the makings of a new kind of Israeli-Palestinian face-off.

The combination of longer-range and far deadlier rockets in the hands of more radicalized Palestinians, the arrival in Gaza and Sinai from North Africa of other militants pressuring Hamas to fight more, and the growing tide of anti-Israel fury in a region where authoritarian rulers have been replaced by Islamists means that Israel is engaging in this conflict with a different set of challenges.

....

The Middle East of 2012 is not what it was in late 2008, the last time Israel mounted a military invasion to reduce the rocket threat from Gaza. Many analysts and diplomats outside Israel say the country today needs a different approach to Hamas and the Palestinians based more on acknowledging historic grievances and shifting alliances.

....

But the government in Israel and the vast majority of its people have drawn a very different conclusion. Their dangerous neighborhood is growing still more dangerous, they agree. That means not concessions, but being tougher in pursuit of deterrence, and abandoning illusions that a Jewish state will ever be broadly accepted here.

“There is a theory, which I believe, that Hamas doesn’t want a peaceful solution and only wants to keep the conflict going forever until somehow in their dream they will have all of Israel,” Eitan Ben Eliyahu, a former leader of the Israeli Air Force, said in a telephone briefing. “There is a good chance we will go into Gaza on the ground again.”

Bronner again sneakily reasserted that Israel must change its strategy.



What is striking in listening to the Israelis discuss their predicament is how similar the debate sounds to so many previous ones, despite the changed geopolitical circumstances. In most minds here, the changes do not demand a new strategy, simply a redoubled old one.

....

Gazans see events in a very different light. The problem, they say, comes from Israel: Israeli drones fill the Gazan skies, Israeli gunboats strafe their waters, Palestinian militants are shot at from the air, and the Gaza border areas are declared off limits by Israel with the risk of death from Israeli gunfire.

But there is little dissent in Israel about the Gaza policy. This week leaders of the leftist opposition praised the assassination of Ahmed al-Jabari, the Hamas military commander, on Wednesday. He is viewed here as the equivalent of Osama bin Laden. The operation could go on for many days before there is any real dissent.

Actually, Israel has a robust tradition of democratic dissent that's unique in the region, unlike its enemies in Arab countries and the Gaza strip. But critical reporting on that is rarely if ever squeezed into the Times.


http://www.mrc.org/articles/new-york-times-experts-say-israel-must-admit-historic-grievances-terrorist-group-hamas

Maybe Bronner should be shipped to live there for five years and see if he spouts the same tune!

Visiting these areas does not count. And experts these days become what they are after two hours on the internet.

Israel needs to man up and just invade and take Palestine OUT completely as a nation and they need to tell the UN to go to hell!

Even its old friends like Kissinger & the American intelligence agencies agree...Israel is dying. How much of a mess its death is gonna make depends on whether or not it exercises the "Samson Option" in its death throes.

http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/kissinger-us-intelligence-community-endorse-world-without-israel/22680/

Not sure which is worse,SOTT;BEFOREITSNEWS or FROMTHETRENCHESWORLDREPORT or PRESSTV!

all of them poorly disguised anti-Semite-Sites!

Notwithstanding the fact that the story was a bunch of BS started by NY Post's Cindy Adams, it behooves us to ask who her source might have been and why "it was reported" to Cindy. As usual, it is always a good idea to ask who benefits. It strikes me that the outfit that would benefit the most would probably be Israel's lobbies like AIPAC & B'nai Brith. As Israel becomes less popular, it stands to reason that the money for "the cause" is falling and in need of a boost. What better way to rake in some dough than to present to Western pro-Israelites a false assertion that "Without your help, we'll lose US support and the sky will fall...Please give us the money to continue to bribe the US & other choice western nations."

It seems the real anti-semites are the zionist lobbies themselves, who think so little of the Jewish people that they'll scare them into coughing up however much money they want. What could that be but anti-semitic, false-flag robbery? The Jewish people are still being victimized, but this time, it looks like the perps are the Israel lobbies, working in tandem with Israel's zionist regime itself.

Hamas leader says group will never recognize Israel
Reuters


By Nidal al-Mughrabi Nidal Al-mughrabi – 1 hr 47 mins ago

GAZA (Reuters) – A large crowd of Palestinians cheered a Hamas leader's pledge on Tuesday never to recognize Israel and celebrated the Islamist movement's 23rd anniversary at a Gaza rally punctuated by sonic booms from Israeli jets.

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh, whose group runs the Gaza Strip, said the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) headed by Western-backed President Mahmoud Abbas had made a "historic mistake" by recognizing Israel.

"We said it five years ago and we say it now ... we will never, we will never, we will never recognize Israel," Haniyeh told the gathering which some organizers said was attended by around 250,000 people.

Haniyeh had raised speculation last month about a change in Hamas's charter, which calls for Israel's destruction, by suggesting the group could accept a referendum on any peace treaty giving the Palestinians a state on land Israel captured in a 1967 war.

But he said such a truce would entail "no recognition of Israel and no concessions over any part of the land of Palestine."

In his speech, Haniyeh challenged critics and local surveys which said Hamas's popularity was in decline over poor governance in Gaza.

He voiced confidence that Hamas, which defeated Abbas's long-dominant Fatah movement in a 2006 election and seized the Gaza Strip in 2007 from forces loyal to the Palestinian leader, would win any future ballot.

(Writing by Nidal al-Mughrabi, Editing by Janet Lawrence)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20101214/wl_nm/us_palestinians_hamas
_________________________

Your Friends have spoken louder than you ever can,Bronnie-Baby!

accept?
This?

Article Eight: The Slogan of the Hamas
Allah is its goal, the Prophet its model, the Qur’an its Constitution, Jihad its path and death for the case of Allah its most sublime belief

I'm not big on religion, but how is that expression any different than a fundamentalist Christian's or Jew's? Are they not willing to die for G-d?

I can see you don't get it!
Seen any Fundamentalist Christians or Jews strap Bombs on themselves or their Children?

The fundies I know, all seem far more eager to kill for their beliefs than to die for them. Consequently, I have little respect for them or their beliefs. Since everyone should have at least one thing they would happily die for, I have to give some credit to the Palestinians for resorting to suicide bombs before surrendering to oppression. I reserve greatest credit, however, for the Buddhists, who peacefully self-immolate to make a (very powerful) statement about the oppression they suffer.

That is a specious claim. Being willing to die for one's faith, and being willing to take a lot of innocent parties with you are two VERY different concepts.

I found this interesting. Actually I found it funny.




Now this statement above can be completly turned around and it is one that I have read many times:

"Israel doesn't want a peaceful solution and only wants to keep conflict going forever until somehow they will have all of Gaza."


Okay then Eitan Ben Eliyahu says.. "There is a good chance we will go into Gaza on the ground again."

So who is going where? Israel into Gaza, not the other way around. Israel wants the fighting to continue until they have all of Gaza, or else why on earth would they be talking about going into Gaza?

Er, to stop the rocket attacks? D'uh.

True

True

That's the excuse they are using.

But do you think they will decide to stick around and occupy the place once they are in there? If they don't, then what's to stop the rockets from flying again after they go home? Will they decide to spend billions of dollars building an embassy like America did in Iraq?

Nope, ..... I think they want to move in and stay.

You make it sound like they are using it as a pretext. Have you ever considered that it might be a valid reason?



No, Israel usually withdraws after a punitive incursion.



This is the very cycle in discussion. That is why many are tired of the cycle and wish Israel to put an end to it. I doubt they will.



WTF?



Well, Israel's usual tactics suggest otherwise.

Considering that they took East Jerusalem and the west bank in 1967 and haven't withdrawn yet, choosing to demolish Palestinian homes to build illegal Israeli settlements, I question the assertion that withdrawal from captured territory is one of Israel's "usual tactics." It looks to me more like they have moved in to stay.

I was referring to recent history when Israel launches an incursion into Palestinian territory, however, I'm sure you were quite aware of my meaning.

Great points. I think they are ready to resume that plan, only now it will be Gaza.

The problem is that the world is watching them very closely and carefully now, and Israel can't afford to be any more unpopular or loose the support and favor they have from America. They will have to do it very carefully and try to make it look like they are helping the people of Gaza and so they will work their way in slowly.

But I can almost guarantee that it is their desire and plan to have and rule Gaza. I would bet that before I die, (I'm 63) Israel will be in control of Gaza.

Well, as I stated, Israel's recent tactics suggest otherwise, however, we will see.