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| Topic: --- Is God real? --- | |
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How would that mean God was imperfect? Yes, God creates the "being", but God does not control that being, unless that being subdues them self to God. Remember, we are not robots. Now, explain how that makes God imperfect, please. didn't God "know" everything that Satan would do, before he created Satan? Yes, Satan was God's strongest most beautiful angel, needed for whatever they do. Things of this nature, you would have to ask God when you meet him. We are not given this form of information, this deeply of the "why's, how comes, and the what for's". It is irrelevant for us to know. All the knowledge we are given is the knowledge to potentially gain the reward of Heaven, the knowledge we need to know to achieve such a thing through Jesus Christ. Outside of that again would be irrelevant and unimportant to know. allow me to explain why it's relevant and important to know if God knew everything what Satan and everyone would do before he created them...that's why in matters pertaining to religion, everyone are robots That still doesn't explain why it would be relevant to be informed of such information, on weather he knew or possibly didn't know. Either way makes no bit of difference in our salvation and or what we are to do to possibly achieve such a thing through Jesus Christ. So again, I ask where is the relevance? Not if it is relevant or not, but where is the relevance and the importance for us to know such a thing? the point being, that it wouldn't have any relevance or importance to a robot ...your destiny has already been pre-programmed like gears to a watch |
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How would that mean God was imperfect? Yes, God creates the "being", but God does not control that being, unless that being subdues them self to God. Remember, we are not robots. Now, explain how that makes God imperfect, please. didn't God "know" everything that Satan would do, before he created Satan? Yes, Satan was God's strongest most beautiful angel, needed for whatever they do. Things of this nature, you would have to ask God when you meet him. We are not given this form of information, this deeply of the "why's, how comes, and the what for's". It is irrelevant for us to know. All the knowledge we are given is the knowledge to potentially gain the reward of Heaven, the knowledge we need to know to achieve such a thing through Jesus Christ. Outside of that again would be irrelevant and unimportant to know. allow me to explain why it's relevant and important to know if God knew everything what Satan and everyone would do before he created them...that's why in matters pertaining to religion, everyone are robots That still doesn't explain why it would be relevant to be informed of such information, on weather he knew or possibly didn't know. Either way makes no bit of difference in our salvation and or what we are to do to possibly achieve such a thing through Jesus Christ. So again, I ask where is the relevance? Not if it is relevant or not, but where is the relevance and the importance for us to know such a thing? the point being, that it wouldn't have any relevance or importance to a robot ...your destiny has already been pre-programmed like gears to a watch How do you say "pre-programmed"? Who said anything along those lines? We're not pre-programmed, we have free will. That doesn't mean God doesn't know what you are going to do, or that because he does you were "programmed", just means he already knows. |
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I'm tired of typing so I'm just going to refer you to some of the
old threads which covered the topic of God.... http://mingle2.com/topic/show/306297 and http://mingle2.com/topic/show/306348 and http://mingle2.com/topic/show/280981 and mingle2.com/topic/show/313321 and mingle2.com/topic/show/318521 well...I'm sure there are others..... 
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How do you say "pre-programmed"? Who said anything along those lines? We're not pre-programmed, we have free will. That doesn't mean God doesn't know what you are going to do, or that because he does you were "programmed", just means he already knows. that God already knows what you will do before he creates you to do it ..is why it's "pre-programming" |
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How do you say "pre-programmed"? Who said anything along those lines? We're not pre-programmed, we have free will. That doesn't mean God doesn't know what you are going to do, or that because he does you were "programmed", just means he already knows. that God already knows what you will do before he creates you to do it ..is why it's "pre-programming" "Create you to do it". Created you to do what? God doesn't create people to do certain things. God creates people, and through their free will, they choose to things or not. |
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"Create you to do it". Created you to do what? God doesn't create people to do certain things. God creates people, and through their free will, they choose to things or not. Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; and before you came forth out of the womb I sanctified you, and I ordained you a prophet unto the nations. the above passage is an example of pre-programming ....and why there is no "Free Will" ..only "God's Will" |
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"Create you to do it". Created you to do what? God doesn't create people to do certain things. God creates people, and through their free will, they choose to things or not. Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; and before you came forth out of the womb I sanctified you, and I ordained you a prophet unto the nations. the above passage is an example of pre-programming ....and why there is no "Free Will" ..only "God's Will" How so? God knows all of us before he forms us in the womb. Ordained - Make (someone) a priest or minister; confer holy orders on. And just because God "ordains" someone, does not mean they take away their free will. It means God had a plan for that person, it would be up to that person using their free will to either do God's will or not. That is where that statement comes from and is referring to, when someone speaks of "doing God's will". |
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How so? God knows all of us before he forms us in the womb. the same as a computer programmer would know the needed program before they created the robot to carry out those functions |
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How so? God knows all of us before he forms us in the womb. Ordained - Make (someone) a priest or minister; confer holy orders on. And just because God "ordains" someone, does not mean they take away their free will. It means God had a plan for that person, it would be up to that person using their free will to either do God's will or not. That is where that statement comes from and is referring to, when someone speaks of "doing God's will". the same as a computer programmer would know the needed program before they created the robot to carry out those functions Absolutely no comparison between the two. God ordaining someone is merely calling them to do it. Doesn't mean they HAVE to do as in a computer program has absolutely no choice but to do what it was programmed to do. Again, this is where "doing God's will" comes into play. Doing what he wants one to do or has called them to do or has "ordained" them to do. |
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God ordaining someone is merely calling them to do it. didn't God aready know every move or decision that an "Ordained Jeremiah" would make before Jeremiah was formed in the womb or before he was Ordained? THE QUESTION: can you explain how Jeremiah could use his "Free Will" to change the destiny that God already knew would take place before he formed Jeremiah |
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God ordaining someone is merely calling them to do it. didn't God aready know every move or decision that an "Ordained Jeremiah" would make before Jeremiah was formed in the womb or before he was Ordained? THE QUESTION: can you explain how Jeremiah could use his "Free Will" to change the destiny that God already knew would take place before he formed Jeremiah God knew he would use his free will to do that which is in question, otherwise would have been pointless to ordain him as such. He could have very well not done what God ordained him to do, as many people including myself don't do as we're suppose to do. And thus why we have a judgement on such things. |
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He could have very well not done what God ordained him to do, wouldn't God have known this before he "Formed and Ordained" Jeremiah? so where's the "Free Will" in The Theory of Creation?.... |
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He could have very well not done what God ordained him to do, wouldn't God have known this before he "Formed and Ordained" Jeremiah? so where's the "Free Will" in The Theory of Creation?.... Free will in theory of creation? o.O what are you talking about? Free will involves an action you do or don't do. You don't personally make the action of being born, so the two have absolutely nothing to do with one another. |
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He could have very well not done what God ordained him to do, wouldn't God have known this before he "Formed and Ordained" Jeremiah? so where's the "Free Will" in The Theory of Creation?.... Free will in theory of creation? o.O what are you talking about? Free will involves an action you do or don't do. You don't personally make the action of being born, so the two have absolutely nothing to do with one another. I didn't ask you for a synopsis on "Free Will"... ...I asked where is Jeremiah's "Free Will" in The Theory of Creation Jeremiah had no choice but to be born Jeremiah had no choice but to be Ordained Jeremiah couldn't do a thing to change his pre-programmed destiny This is why there is no "Free Will" which is why the same applies to Satan...God knew exactly what Satan would do before he created him although I'm still waiting on a believer to explain exactly what Satan did that was so wrong that their relatives or friends or someone on Earth hasn't done |
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He could have very well not done what God ordained him to do, wouldn't God have known this before he "Formed and Ordained" Jeremiah? so where's the "Free Will" in The Theory of Creation?.... Free will in theory of creation? o.O what are you talking about? Free will involves an action you do or don't do. You don't personally make the action of being born, so the two have absolutely nothing to do with one another. I didn't ask you for a synopsis on "Free Will"... ...I asked where is Jeremiah's "Free Will" in The Theory of Creation Jeremiah had no choice but to be born Jeremiah had no choice but to be Ordained Jeremiah couldn't do a thing to change his pre-programmed destiny This is why there is no "Free Will" which is why the same applies to Satan...God knew exactly what Satan would do before he created him although I'm still waiting on a believer to explain exactly what Satan did that was so wrong that their relatives or friends or someone on Earth hasn't done Jeremiah had no choice but to be born Jeremiah had no choice but to be Ordained Jeremiah couldn't do a thing to change his pre-programmed destiny 1. Incorrect. Being born is not a choice, it is not an action YOU are doing or not doing, so therefore has absolutely nothing to do with free will. 2. Even him being ordained does not mean he had to do God's will and what God wanted him to do. He could have turned away and not did the will of the lord. 3. Destiny? What are you talking about? Just because God ordains something/someone does not mean it's set in stone. Again, "ordain" means to make someone a preacher or priest. Just because God ordained him that and or formed him to be as such, does not mean he had to. He chose to follow the road God set out before him. |
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He could have very well not done what God ordained him to do, wouldn't God have known this before he "Formed and Ordained" Jeremiah? so where's the "Free Will" in The Theory of Creation?.... Free will in theory of creation? o.O what are you talking about? Free will involves an action you do or don't do. You don't personally make the action of being born, so the two have absolutely nothing to do with one another. I didn't ask you for a synopsis on "Free Will"... ...I asked where is Jeremiah's "Free Will" in The Theory of Creation Jeremiah had no choice but to be born Jeremiah had no choice but to be Ordained Jeremiah couldn't do a thing to change his pre-programmed destiny This is why there is no "Free Will" which is why the same applies to Satan...God knew exactly what Satan would do before he created him although I'm still waiting on a believer to explain exactly what Satan did that was so wrong that their relatives or friends or someone on Earth hasn't done Jeremiah had no choice but to be born Jeremiah had no choice but to be Ordained Jeremiah couldn't do a thing to change his pre-programmed destiny 1. Incorrect. Being born is not a choice, it is not an action YOU are doing or not doing, so therefore has absolutely nothing to do with free will. 2. Even him being ordained does not mean he had to do God's will and what God wanted him to do. He could have turned away and not did the will of the lord. 3. Destiny? What are you talking about? Just because God ordains something/someone does not mean it's set in stone. Again, "ordain" means to make someone a preacher or priest. Just because God ordained him that and or formed him to be as such, does not mean he had to. He chose to follow the road God set out before him. -continued on number 2- Just because God "ordained" him to be a prophet does not mean he had to do it. His actions behind being a prophet were all entirely on his own behalf, his own choice through his own free will. God could have ordained him to be a prophet and he could have just looked at God, laughed, and walked away. Free will means choices. Doesn't mean we are to or can without repercussions do whatever we want, but we have the possibility of doing anything we wish to do. The outcome or reaction(s) to our action(s) plays no baring in if it's "free will" or not. Free will is purely the ability to do... or not do, depending on the situation at hand. |
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2. Even him being ordained does not mean he had to do God's will and what God wanted him to do. He could have turned away and not did the will of the lord. that would mean that what God "knew" about Jeremiah before he was formed was wrong your attempt to prove that you or Jeremiah have Free Will will only end up proving that your God is not omniscient it's a catch 22 |
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2. Even him being ordained does not mean he had to do God's will and what God wanted him to do. He could have turned away and not did the will of the lord. that would mean that what God "knew" about Jeremiah before he was formed was wrong your attempt to prove that you or Jeremiah have Free Will will only end up proving that your God is not omniscient it's a catch 22 Incorrect. It is true, that if Jeremiah done other then what he was ordained to do, it would then make God "wrong". But nevertheless, it still does not take away his free will. Free will is the ability to make choices. God just already knew what choice he would make before he took it. Again after again, the ONLY way for there to not be free will, would be God forcibly making him a prophet. Which he did not. Jeremiah willingly chose to take that route in accordance to God's will. Just because God says this or that is going to happen, does not mean he forcibly made it happen or even did anything to cause it to happen. He just knew it was going to happen before it did. |
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2. Even him being ordained does not mean he had to do God's will and what God wanted him to do. He could have turned away and not did the will of the lord. that would mean that what God "knew" about Jeremiah before he was formed was wrong your attempt to prove that you or Jeremiah have Free Will will only end up proving that your God is not omniscient it's a catch 22 Incorrect. It is true, that if Jeremiah done other then what he was ordained to do, it would then make God "wrong". But nevertheless, it still does not take away his free will. Free will is the ability to make choices. God just already knew what choice he would make before he took it. Again after again, the ONLY way for there to not be free will, would be God forcibly making him a prophet. Which he did not. Jeremiah willingly chose to take that route in accordance to God's will. Just because God says this or that is going to happen, does not mean he forcibly made it happen or even did anything to cause it to happen. He just knew it was going to happen before it did. And in this case, even though Jeremiah was "ordained" to be a prophet, does not mean he HAD to take the prophetic actions. He could have went on his merely little way. And even if that was the case, would not make God "wrong", there is no question, no "prophecy" in mention here. Just he wouldn't have been doing God's will and or what God wanted him to do and or created him to do. |
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It is true, that if Jeremiah done other then what he was ordained to do, it would then make God "wrong". But nevertheless, it still does not take away his free will. Free will is the ability to make choices. God just already knew what choice he would make before he took it. nope,... you keep forgetting that Jeremiah wasn't formed and therefore couldn't make any choices ...which is why it's not choice but programming |
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