we are the mirror as well as the face in it

we are tasting the taste this minute of eternity.
we are pain
and what cures pain,
both. We are
the sweet cold water
and the jar that pours.






rumi

oh oh oh


and the spirit whispers yesssssssssssssss



(((Alex)))

Bl8ant gifted:

"... DEC. 1989
NOTES TO myself...who else cares???!!
who else want's to see?... (the whole thing)"


I hope you have framed it, I know I will, for in some unverifiable manner, this is the true mysterious and paradoxical manner in which 'what is true' shows up to us (all of us) confused human beings, and restores our sense of profound and universal humanity, ... but for 'one moment' at a time!!!


Brilliant 'bl8ant' !!!

Just so there is no confusion, what I meant by...

"... DEC. 1989
NOTES TO myself...who else cares???!!
who else want's to see?... (the whole thing)"

... was everything you had written in a previous post below those few header words.

Also 'sororitygurl4life',

Great perspective you bring-up. All these false hopes and illusions 'we' fabricate and believe in, to give ourselves a fake sense of security. Doesn't change anything on the security side!!!

Albert Camus wrote a phenomal essay IMO on the subject of the profound non-significance for the equally profound significance WE give to EVERYTHING. Like our pain really exists, and it is significant that it exists, it really must MEAN something!!!

Camus argues in 'The myth of Sysiphus' that in spite of all the inherited meaning we keep automatically granting everything, just because that's is what it has always meant, there is NO MEANING IN OR TO THE UNIVERSE. Meaning belongs to humans. We are addicted to our meanings. We are in a way, meaning-making-machines. But the universe couldn't care less.

Our only freedom exists in the capability, one moment at a time to 'invent' meaning (since we are condemned to it) that turns us toward the light (since we're free to mean it) rather than towards the dark side.

When you need to invent all that meaning for a God that saves you from the darkness, all that's left is that you truly fabricate an underlying belief in darkness every present moment of your life, which your God hopefully protects YOU from.

Next time you are convinced you're seeing darkness, rather than praying or shooting from the hip, acknowledge the light behind or beyound the darkness!!! One (light-darkness) never comes without the other for human beings. Reacting to the darkeness or chosing the light beyound migt turn out to the only 'ackowledging' freedom and job 'in and for life' human beings have.

Anyhow, Camus puts it much better in his essay!!! Worthwile reading.

((((( alex )))))))
Hugs,,,

<---walks around
check the non sense and laugh at it. and then just walks away

suffering is part of the human condition
suffering has been with the human being since the beginning of time.
nevertheless, after the suffering there is always a lesson to be learnt.
there are 2 kind of people those sho ask why and those who ask what for when they are facing a harsh situation.
those who ask what for are the indispensables.
God's will is makes us aware that no everything is not for granted, that we have to work hard to get what need.
and when we see people suffering we have to pray for them to be relieved, and be grateful that even though our lives are not perfect we have some more blessings.
and i do believe that everything is related to God. Human beings as a class are too weak to support all the creation.
We are not even able to understand half of everything which has been created.
There must be a superior sources which allow (not control) things to happen.
but each one to his/her own ways.

Love the moment of silence before we pray the serenity prayer before in our spiritual meetings. Used to pray the Lord's Prayer at the end of some of the spiritual meeting but am getting fond of the third step modified prayer. "Take my will and my life; Guide me in my recovery and show me how to live clean. Keep coming back because it works if you work it and it doesn't if you don't so work it because you are worth it.

I couldn't help but notice those who have posted here thus far. They are a group I feel a great comradery with. LaMom, you were among the first to welcome me, when I posted my first entry in the introductions.

Since that time I've exchanged words, views and sentiments with each of you here. I think it was a quite fitting topic, soroity, shared in an unexpected way, by a group of unlikely friends.

Through this topic we have looked at suffering. It takes many forms and whether it is close and singularly affecting, or far reaching and unapproachable, is consists of the same anguish, the same fears, the same questions.

The important lesson we've learned is that suffering is part of the human condition, and that one persons suffering is no less than the suffering of the world as a whole. We see that the world continues, we see that hours and days pass, and the best we can do, is seek solace with friends and family, who help us to join the hours and the days in their constant move forward.

Perhaps, in suffering, we find comfort in 'other hands', hands whose caring reflects a resounding empathetic round of understanding. For each of us has had to forge a path beyond the suffering.

((((((( Red )))))))))

Thank you

Hugs and prayers sent to you Denise.

Asking why? Is that not what humans do well? We think, therefore we question. We give a rip, therefore, we question. Those without faith in "God" still must have faith in something, be it themselves or others, but somewhere there is faith of some sort, as we still question. Only when we absolutely give up there being answers, do we cease to question or do we? Obviously, I haven't. My biggest question is What would stop the killing/Why do we continue believing death is the only means to peace? It obviously hasn't worked yet, well except for those now dead...........Peace among the living - how?

LA Mom; I pray God gives you strength to deal with what you must...

Sorority Girl:

I agree with you. I have often been profoundly confused by how so many people could believe in a god that is intimately involved in determining all aspects of life on this planet. I would be driven to despair by how many atrocious thing that god was responsible for causing if I believed such a thing.

However, there are many religious traditions that welcome obstacles or tragedies as a way to show or gain strength through facing and triumphing over adversity. And if we look at just general culteral behaviors it seems that many wars were facilited by these kinds of beliefs- young men are frequently taught that going to war will "make them men" and "bring them honor".

But I choose not to believe in such a "hands on" god. Although my vision and understanding of God is constantly changing as new experiences and thoughts occur, I believe that the creator of all set up many conditions and processes and then allows the sentient beings to make their own choices and decisions. E.g. Free will and personal responsibility. But acknowledging that we have free will and choices doesn't make bad things "our fault" either. Because we know we aren't all knowing or all powerful. We just muddle along the best we can. We may find strength in God to help us but I don't believe God takes actions in our daily lives.

So all I'm really saying with my rambling is: it's not God's fault, it's not your fault- do the best you can with what you get. You can't choose what happens to you, you can only control how you respond to and deal with the things that happen to you.

I personally think some people choose to believe God controls *everything* because then they have less responsibility. So do infants...

first of all to say that you walk out and think this is non sense, i know you're a christian, and christians aren't suppose to question why, but i really think why is very important on why the world is at it is especially from a christian perspective why does god allow for hundreds of thousands of people to starve every day? why are there little girls kidnapped and raped, why are there people murdered , shot for an ipod or for 10 bucks, why do we have ghettos, your lord in my opinion obviously isn't as powerful or he isn't all good if he does exist to let all of this go on ! and if you want to rebuttle against me you have to acknowledge that your god is all powerful and he is all good, and you must make a rebuttle that sufficiently answers why there is evil and suffering, not to say suffering is life bc if your'e going to say that you might as well join up in buddhism under the 4 noble truths, .. but anyways you can't say that god has a plan for everything bc i very muchly doubt that there is a plan for an unborn fetus to die in its 8 month leaving the mother grieving, i very muchly doubt that there is a plan for the hundreds of thousand starving .. what does their pain justify? or prove? or show? that pain and suffering exist? what if you say its to help one another wouldn't if god wanted them to be helped allow for it? you can't simply call something non sense you should address it as best as you know how from your faith using it but also a logical answer at the same time which there are some out there at least thats how i feel to ignore is to be ignorant and i know ignorance is bliss but don't call it non sense when someone asks why.

that is the reason why i came back and answered.

As for saying or claimimg that g-d did this or that for u. A good laugh to me is the smiling/laughing preacher who was interviewed on tv and he claimed the seat he was in on a plane was upgraded to 1st class because of a no-show i believe. Was evidence that the l-rd favors him. laughable to me.. Blessings Miles

somethings are over the top
others are just real blessings