Community > Politics, Current News & Events

Topic: Gendercide
singmesweet Joined Mon 07/28/08 Posts: 26661	Thu 05/31/12 11:14 AM
Abortion is an issue best addressed by the people directly affected, the mother and father of the fetus, not by a bunch oh holier-than-thou right wing fundmentalists or the government. Abortions typically aren't taken lightly by the parents. They're emotionally and financially taxing. No one has abortions for fun; but everyone needs to open their eyes to the very real dangers of overpopulation. The Earth is already near carrying capacity. It's evident to anyone with their eyes open. Increasingly limited, more expensive resources, pollution problems, other species nearing extinction due to human encroachment of their habitats. Wake up, world! The very conservative would have you believe that liberals get abortions all the time, as a simple form of birth control. The problem is the whole murdering an innocent, helpless baby. The frequency is alarming, but it's the murder part that really upsets Conservatives and some Libertarians. I don't care how much salt you eat or if you smoke or if you drink large sodas, but Democrats do legislate those things. What I care about is the fundamental right to life that is the birthright of every human being. You can be against abortion all you want. As the law stands, though, it's legal. It isn't up to you to decide what women should do. It's legal through judicial fiat, not law. If the Supreme Court were always right, then black people would still be slaves. So, you're saying it's not actually legal through the law? When did the law change to make it not legal then?

esebulldog Joined Wed 08/05/09 Posts: 22342	Thu 05/31/12 11:18 AM
why is only a woman's right (or not)? i guess once the sperm is deposited the male forfeits all rights. that is until the child is born, now the male comes back into play for garnishment of his wages. this issue has too many angles

RKISIT Joined Tue 01/08/08 Posts: 16721	Thu 05/31/12 11:19 AM
Problem solved a worldwide birth control use law then when someone wants a child the man squirts in a cup science finds which tadpole is carrying the x or y chromosome pick the one the parents want and inject into the womans egg which is always x chromosome.Next.

singmesweet Joined Mon 07/28/08 Posts: 26661	Thu 05/31/12 11:20 AM
why is only a woman's right (or not)? i guess once the sperm is deposited the male forfeits all rights. that is until the child is born, now the male comes back into play for garnishment of his wages. this issue has too many angles If you have a strong view on abortion, such as being against them, it would make sense to talk to the woman you're with before having sex with her to make sure you're on the same page. If she disagrees with you, don't have sex with her. Seems simple enough?

RKISIT Joined Tue 01/08/08 Posts: 16721	Thu 05/31/12 11:25 AM
16,000 children a day die from starvation people around the world need to fix that problem before abortion should be a concern.If people keep pumping out babies and can't feed them why have'em.

esebulldog Joined Wed 08/05/09 Posts: 22342	Thu 05/31/12 11:26 AM
why is only a woman's right (or not)? i guess once the sperm is deposited the male forfeits all rights. that is until the child is born, now the male comes back into play for garnishment of his wages. this issue has too many angles If you have a strong view on abortion, such as being against them, it would make sense to talk to the woman you're with before having sex with her to make sure you're on the same page. If she disagrees with you, don't have sex with her. Seems simple enough? it's hard enough to find a woman wanting sex. it's easier to pull out and skeet on her stomach, than to argue with her about abortion issues

Ladylid2012 Joined Sun 07/05/09 Posts: 42269	Thu 05/31/12 11:27 AM
Why then are cuts in Planned parenthood seemly alright with so many who are pro life? Abortion is a very small part of what PP does. The free birth control that was handed out prevented many of these unwanted babies. Then the suits in DC decide not to do that, then the uneducated get knocked up and seek an abortion. Education is the key and it is denied to way to many women ALL OVER the world. Birth control education should be taught FREE and offered FREE. Ya wanna prevent abortions..educate and prevent.

Bushidobillyclub Joined Fri 05/11/07 Posts: 5689	Thu 05/31/12 11:29 AM Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Thu 05/31/12 11:42 AM
16,000 children a day die from starvation people around the world need to fix that problem before abortion should be a concern.If people keep pumping out babies and can't feed them why have'em. I agree, REAL humans, not potential humans are experiencing life threatening situations that would benefit from more attention. A fetus is NOT a human being, no matter how much folks want it to be. Potential is not the same as the thing itself. What a thing is, is based on what it does, and a fetus or a disabled human that does not live independently from a life support system has either, no rights, or very little rights. (some cases of a living will can protect a person, but that is not the same as being able to express rights). Once you live autonomously within society you are recognized as a person, a citizen, and are protected by presumptive rights, this still does not mean you have the capability to express rights. Trying to setup rights for things which cannot express rights is not only a slippery slope, but illogical, and out of touch with law, and the history of law. Many animal rights activists use the same kind of logic pro lifers do in trying to justify rights for beings which cannot express rights, and cannot be responsible for there actions within a society. using this same logic we can say that the rights of sperm should be protected, or eggs, or tubal births, and any arguments otherwise (health of the mother) are tangential, or arbitrary. Why would we care about the health of the mother if the rights of the potential child was on par with the mother? How could you arbitrate what is more important? The contrary position however is internally consistent, rights start at birth, and the ability to express them starts at the ability to be responsible. (in fact the current laws on when an abortion is legal vs not are also NOT internally consistent with how rights are recognized, even tho I personally agree with them, hows that for self contradiction, this topic is full of that IMHO) Again this is just one reason taking a, "protect the rights of the unborn", position is not a solid platform. I am not saying someone can never figure a way around this, but this is the landscape you are dealing with. Add to that the other factors I mentioned in my other post and you have a position which just makes no logical sense. It makes emotional sense when you feel, or think about the potential of a baby.

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Thu 05/31/12 12:03 PM
If you dont own yourself what do you own? If what is inside your body is not yours then what is? Then there is the argument from consequence. Illegal abortion promotes black-market abortion, which is objectively riskier and more damaging to society. Then there is also the slippery slope of allowing governments to control your body. Once they set that precedent that they control your body for your own well being, or the well being of the potential of a future citizen, then were does that stop, and what logical barriers exist to prevent the slip of personal rights? There is nothing more personal than reproduction, so it is also an issue of privacy. In fact this topic touches on just about every rights issue ever. I used to look at it like that, then I realized that "what is inside [a woman's] body" is a human. Equally endowed with the same God given rights as anyone else. This is a right issue, the right to life for the child.

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Thu 05/31/12 12:05 PM
A fetus is NOT a human being, no matter how much folks want it to be. Potential is not the same as the thing itself. What makes an unborn child a human being? At what point does that happen?

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Thu 05/31/12 12:08 PM
Why then are cuts in Planned parenthood seemly alright with so many who are pro life? Abortion is a very small part of what PP does. The free birth control that was handed out prevented many of these unwanted babies. Then the suits in DC decide not to do that, then the uneducated get knocked up and seek an abortion. Education is the key and it is denied to way to many women ALL OVER the world. Birth control education should be taught FREE and offered FREE. Ya wanna prevent abortions..educate and prevent. I don't support Government funding for any organizations. The money that the Government spends came from and the taxpayers. No tax payer should have to support any program that violates their personal or religious beliefs.

Ladylid2012 Joined Sun 07/05/09 Posts: 42269	Thu 05/31/12 12:12 PM
Why then are cuts in Planned parenthood seemly alright with so many who are pro life? Abortion is a very small part of what PP does. The free birth control that was handed out prevented many of these unwanted babies. Then the suits in DC decide not to do that, then the uneducated get knocked up and seek an abortion. Education is the key and it is denied to way to many women ALL OVER the world. Birth control education should be taught FREE and offered FREE. Ya wanna prevent abortions..educate and prevent. I don't support Government funding for any organizations. The money that the Government spends came from and the taxpayers. No tax payer should have to support any program that violates their personal or religious beliefs. The problem won't go away if we are not willing or able to look past our personal beliefs. It's not about us...it's about the unborn child. I object to my taxes going to fund war....

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Thu 05/31/12 12:15 PM
Why then are cuts in Planned parenthood seemly alright with so many who are pro life? Abortion is a very small part of what PP does. The free birth control that was handed out prevented many of these unwanted babies. Then the suits in DC decide not to do that, then the uneducated get knocked up and seek an abortion. Education is the key and it is denied to way to many women ALL OVER the world. Birth control education should be taught FREE and offered FREE. Ya wanna prevent abortions..educate and prevent. I don't support Government funding for any organizations. The money that the Government spends came from and the taxpayers. No tax payer should have to support any program that violates their personal or religious beliefs. The problem won't go away if we are not willing or able to look past our personal beliefs. It's not about us...it's about the unborn child. I object to my taxes going to fund war.... One of the only valid functions of Government is to go to war. The Government has no valid function in murdering unborn children.

singmesweet Joined Mon 07/28/08 Posts: 26661	Thu 05/31/12 12:18 PM
why is only a woman's right (or not)? i guess once the sperm is deposited the male forfeits all rights. that is until the child is born, now the male comes back into play for garnishment of his wages. this issue has too many angles If you have a strong view on abortion, such as being against them, it would make sense to talk to the woman you're with before having sex with her to make sure you're on the same page. If she disagrees with you, don't have sex with her. Seems simple enough? it's hard enough to find a woman wanting sex. it's easier to pull out and skeet on her stomach, than to argue with her about abortion issues So you want to have a say, yet you don't want to discuss it. Got it.

Ladylid2012 Joined Sun 07/05/09 Posts: 42269	Thu 05/31/12 12:19 PM
Why then are cuts in Planned parenthood seemly alright with so many who are pro life? Abortion is a very small part of what PP does. The free birth control that was handed out prevented many of these unwanted babies. Then the suits in DC decide not to do that, then the uneducated get knocked up and seek an abortion. Education is the key and it is denied to way to many women ALL OVER the world. Birth control education should be taught FREE and offered FREE. Ya wanna prevent abortions..educate and prevent. I don't support Government funding for any organizations. The money that the Government spends came from and the taxpayers. No tax payer should have to support any program that violates their personal or religious beliefs. The problem won't go away if we are not willing or able to look past our personal beliefs. It's not about us...it's about the unborn child. I object to my taxes going to fund war.... One of the only valid functions of Government is to go to war. The Government has no valid function in murdering unborn children. Well..what I said is birth control and birth control education should be offered to ALL women and should be free. I said nothing of government murdering babies. Valid? Murdering those in foreign lands is valid? You care so much about the unborn, yet find the murder of other humans acceptable and valid? I guess I don't understand that.

esebulldog Joined Wed 08/05/09 Posts: 22342	Thu 05/31/12 12:20 PM
So you want to have a say, yet you don't want to discuss it. Got it. yeah you got it twisty

singmesweet Joined Mon 07/28/08 Posts: 26661	Thu 05/31/12 12:23 PM
So you want to have a say, yet you don't want to discuss it. Got it. yeah you got it twisty I only went by your own words.

esebulldog Joined Wed 08/05/09 Posts: 22342	Thu 05/31/12 12:29 PM
So you want to have a say, yet you don't want to discuss it. Got it. yeah you got it twisty I only went by your own words. a man can't decide if a woman is going to have sex with him or not. a man can't decide if a woman he got pregnant is going to abort or not. a man can disagree with a woman all he wants, but it always boils down to what she decides. in your words, "If she disagrees with you, don't have sex with her. Seems simple enough?" so whatever a man wants or doesn't want, in your world he should go without sex

willing2 Joined Sun 06/08/08 Posts: 20221	Thu 05/31/12 12:30 PM
I suppose, if talking about rights and responsibilities, if the man has knowledge the woman is impregnated with his sperm, he should have the legal right to contest an abortion. Same man needs to be able to provide sufficient prenatal care while the incubator is holding his kid. Upon birth, he should be awarded full custody of the kid. I don't wanna' screw up my figure or, don't want my parents to find out BS needs to not be allowed in the abortion decision process.

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Thu 05/31/12 12:34 PM
Well..what I said is birth control and birth control education should be offered to ALL women and should be free. I said nothing of government murdering babies. Planned Parenthood provides abortions. Taxpayers should not be forced to help pay for abortions. What is hard to understand? Valid? Murdering those in foreign lands is valid? You care so much about the unborn, yet find the murder of other humans acceptable and valid? I guess I don't understand that. Murder is never justified. Opposing forces killing each other in war is not murder. Innocents being killed accidentally in war is not murder.