No, it is your lack of knowledge. The meaning of my statement is clear, I said Sun burns cause the trauma, which causes the mutations which causes the cancer. I used fewer words, but the meaning is the same. What I said was EXTREMELY simplistic, hence why I posted sources for more detailed information in the hopes that anyone who was interested would read it. Instead of reading any of it, you made your statement.

Your question should have not made any conclusions if you did not understand the pathways of mutation, which you dont.

This is just you trying to defend your ignorance and nothing more, you are playing word games in defense of ignorance.

You fail at critical thinking and logic repeatedly. Even if I was wrong, the answer is to withhold judgement until you understand what is and is not correct. Clearly not at all what you do. You take what people say, ignore digging into the subject matter and make sweeping conclusions from ignorance.

This is not personal for me, I and just making an observation that you consistently blame other people for your lack of understanding and get snippy when anyone points it out to you.

Also this was your question
You asked specifically what was the cause of HIS skin cancer. I answered what the cause of HIS skin cancer was . . . that does not mean that ALL skin cancer MUST originate in that same way. Your logic is fallacious on almost every count, and you dont even see it.

This is what critical thinking is all about, trying to be precise with understandings, and making sure that all conclusions are well founded in the specific context applicable.

I am not a cancer researcher, or doctor, or anyone who studies cancer in any real depth, its fully possible I have no clue what I am talking about, however your terribly sloppy logic and complete lack of critical thinking make it impossible for you to be able to know one way or the other.

Do you know what happens when a scientists has determined that something may be the cause of a disease. They attempt to falsify that assertion, ie they try to prove themselves wrong. They explore every pathway that could create an incorrect conclusion. This is what quacks will avoid like the plague.

Do you know what happens when a scientists finds examples of things like skin cancer and have nothing to indicate it may have been caused by sun burn, or really any other mechanism they believe to be true?

They try to find out if it could be another cause for the same disease, becuase not all things have a single cause. Your assumptions ignore all of these distinctions, and you wonder why people call it out.

I am not trying to make you feel bad, and so it should not be taken personally, but you have serious issues with science, and any attempt to disabuse you of those issues should be seen as someone trying to help you.

People like peter and volant do not help at all. They are even worse, it almost appears they have a specific motivation to spread misinformation, and enjoy nothing better than trolling science. The naturalnews article was a great example. Don't have a real argument . .. just post some "facts" about the failures of science to discredit that which refutes you.

If anyone really thinks these kinds of tactics are intellectually sound they need some time with a philo of science course, and some remedial study.

Yes I have an issue with science where the medical profession IN THIS COUNTRY is concerned when I go to Old Mexico and see the doctors in that third world poor country doing a much better job helping cancer patients than our rich "know-it-all" country.

They consider cutting off a breast with cancer to be gross mutilation and they very rarely ever resort to that except in extreme cases. They use kemo therapy sparingly and only in the worst cases.

I get the feeling that cancer is BIG BUSINESS in this country and that the industry does not really want cures. They want to develop the most expensive treatments for maximum profit.

Yes, I have issues and an attitude.

I'm angry and very disappointed with the doctors and the medical community in this country.

Forget it if you are over 65. Unless you can find a doctor that is as old or older than you, they just don't seem to give a crap. That's just my experience.

Still waiting on your research that disproves natural cures among other therapies...

I live the cure every day. I don't need no quack like you telling me it's ineffective.

quack (kwk)
n.
1. An untrained person who pretends to be a physician and dispenses medical advice and treatment.
2. A charlatan.


Soooooo, quack off!

http://www.curenaturalicancro.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0psJhQHk_GI&feature=related

Honestly I am waiting for you to make claims and stop spamming links.

Make a claim, im happy to engage, I dont have time to go through every link you can dredge up from the internet with every "alternative" cancer theory.

Keep waiting, you're not worth the effort as you don't understand the proper scientific method required to make an informed decision.

Really? You seriously don't know of any of the research that has been done to confirm that certain quack claims are false?

Wait...maybe I was unclear. I'm not saying that the quackery of the 'Rife machines' being sold in recent decades have been specifically researched, but that quackery in general has been given at least a little attention by real scientists.

Do you need me to show that some quack claims have been investigated?



I'm assuming you had a health condition, and that you improved.

You consider your own life experience to be sufficient evidence to evaluate the effectiveness of the treatment? You know that there is no chance that your own immune system may have been the real cause of your improvement?

Of course his own immune system is the cause of improvement. That is PRETTY MUCH THE WAY IT WORKS.

There are no drugs or treatments that I know of that will work at all if your immune system is shot.

And I think a person's own life experience is probably one of the best and most personal bits of evidence (for them) whether or not the scientific community takes it seriously or not.

Yes, I should have said "sole" instead of "real".

If you are sick, and you do something to make yourself well, and then you get well, you cannot reasonably conclude that the action you took to get well was a causal factor in your recovery.

That's simple logic - correlation is not causation.

Further, doing a proper trial on yourself is nigh impossible, when you consider the need for controls, double blinding, and a large data set.

Though most people who use their own experience don't even attempt to keep the most basic of objective records - they rely instead on their memory. Their memory!

One of the greatest things that will effect your health is what you think.

Your thoughts.

Scientists would dispute this but they can't. In fact they have admitted it when they acknowledge the placebo effect.

Also power of suggestion can cause a person to have all the symptoms of a disease when they don't actually have the disease.

Hypnosis can cause a skin reaction on a person who believes they have been burned when they have not been burned.

Also, people have been healed by the simple fact that they believe they have been healed.

If that turns out to be verified by doctors, the doctors will claim that they were never sick in the first place and someone mis-diagnosed.
If it turns out that the disease returns, the doctors will claim that the remission was caused by the placebo effect. No cure happened.

Power of mind.

1. The Law of Mind: "The All is Spirit. The All is Mind. All is in the Mind of the All. The All is infinite and nothing really exists outside of Mind. The All is changeless. The All is life. The All is in all, and all is in the All. Although the infinite universe was created by the Infinite Mind of God, the finite universe was dreamt up in the finite mind of man. Therefore, the All is unknowable to the mortal mind.”

I absolutely agree that your thoughts are one of the 'greatest' things that will effect your health. Our thoughts are able to influence our health in very subtle ways, whose physical pathways may not be evident. And then there are the very obvious ways that our thoughts can effect our health - like leading to decisions such as: whether or not to exercise, or whether your last snack of the day is a bowl of grapes or a bowl of ice cream.






Scientists and health professions may dispute the degree of the influence, and the circumstances of the influence, and the importance of other factors, but very few reputable scientists would claim that thoughts have no influence on our health.

And those few scientists exist in the same way that there are wing-nut scientists who believe in quantum telepathy. Which is: There are a lot of scientists, and not all of them are worthy of our attention.




That sounds like something that I would say, but when I look at it more closely, I would say that it depends on the disease. Some diseases have symptons that are very easy to bring about through suggestion, and others have symptons which are less so.



That's often what happens, and sometimes the doctors are right.

And sometimes they are wrong, but how would anyone know the difference?

If a person believes they are sick, and by believing so, develop symptoms of the sickness, can they really get sick? Can they make themselves sick just by thinking about it?

If so, to what extent can we know how much the mind can make us sick or heal us?

How quickly can changing your mind change your health?

Could hypnotism play a roll in healing by convincing a person they are healthy when they are not?

Or could a person who suddenly finds deeper meaning and happiness in their life have an improvement in their health?

***

Example:
Migraine headaches.

A wise woman once told me that if you suffer from migraine headaches you should first examine your life. Chances are you hate what you are doing, and if you change that your migraines will stop.

I suffered from migraines when I was young and I saw a doctor about it. He examined me and he did not know what to say. Then he asked me if I liked my job. I almost burst into tears. I hated it. He told me to quit my job, and the migraines would stop.

I didn't quit my job, but I got transferred to a different department. It was the art department. I worked there for three months. I did not have a single headache.

It appears he was right.

No amount of good thoughts will cure melanoma skin cancer.

A headache is a symptom, not a cause. A migraine is not a headache, migraines are genetic, and are different than headaches, it is extremely common for people to assume a bad chronic headache is a migraine, but they may be wrong.

This anecdote illustrates two things. One you are assuming you had migraines. Two you are assuming stress was the cause. You may be correct about stress being the cause, but if that is the case then it was not likely migraines.

Not trying to beat up on ya JB, but this is systemic in these discussions. Your examples are as bad as your ability to interact with the discussions. Full of assumptions. If you saw a neurologist and were officially diagnosed with migraines, then excuse my skepticism, however know this . . ..they will come back, and they can be triggered by a lot more than just stress.

In fact migraines are a great example of medical mythology. Here is a good site that offers information about them vs the myths.

http://www.migraines.org/myth/mythreal.htm

Well the story was one of personal experience to illustrate how the mind can cause ill health. Pardon my skepticism, but most doctors diagnose "migraine" from specific symptoms. I'm not all that confident that there are that many good diagnostic doctors.

Some people will tell you that everything is psychological until it becomes physiological. I don't think I said it was a "cause." Yes of course I know that a headache is a symptom. All illnesses, disorders, diseases etc. are symptoms of ill health. LOL

I am also skeptical about the idea that migraines are "genetic" but I'm sure genetics contribute to all kinds of things. My weight and height seem to be genetic as I look a lot like my grandmother.

I can see that the doctor you quoted is one who wants to convince people that "this disease is real, it's not all in your head" as if something "in your head" is not real or valid.

It certainly is. What is "in your head" is real and valid and important. It is your mind/brain that releases certain chemicals and hormones and regulates the entire body.

I would be willing to bet that doctor you quoted would disagree that a person's thoughts and beliefs can effect their over-all health.

I don't know if what I had were migraines but all the symptoms were there. I did not see neurologist. That was back in the day where people went to their family doctors for everything.

I don't know why the alleged migraines went away, but they have not come back.

I decided every time I start hating my job, I'd just quit before the headaches started.

Its about vasodialator interaction. The causes are well known, but often misdiagnosed.

I only used it as an example of one of the many things which you assume to be so, and make conclusions based on that assumption, which leads you to false conclusions, so common as to be the rule vs the exception when it comes to you.

Read that article, you may learn something.

Bushi, I am not surprised there is an impressive label for what we call migraines. (vasodialator interaction) GOODY!

That is basically what scientists and doctors do. They observe and label things and put everything into a neat little package and call it fact. That's very nice and tidy.

As I said before, the story is one of my personal experience. I am not pretending to be a scientist or trying to inject my experience into your scientific world of "facts." I am not making any scientific claims.

I have also noticed in the last 10 or 20 years that every symptom of ill health has gained a name or label so doctors can legally prescribe some drug to treat it.

I guess people feel better when their illness has a name and a drug to treat the symptoms.

I did read the article.

I also don't know if what I had were migraines, but they had all the horrible symptoms. I also had a great deal of female trouble and menstrual pain (every month) so they could be related. (Although the migraines/headaches would come at any time.) I have not had migraines since I went through menopause.

And it seemed like when I was happy with my life and what I was doing, I would not get them.

(menopause --Happiest time of my life)

No more headaches, no more pain.

Well it not about labeling in and of itself JB, but understanding causal interactions. Once we know why a thing occurs, we can then understand how to manage it.

Misdiagnosis is a major issue for that very reason. I was just as misguided in my understanding about this particular topic until I looked it up a few minutes before posting here today. In fact with my new knowledge I am going to pay closer attention to when I get my terrible headaches that I thought were just the weather, or sinus related.

When I was on several different medications for my back injury years ago, it raised my blood pressure, and I already had a bit on the high side, well then add to it I was working as a contractor at a company with a truly terrible boss (much worse than the movie) and would get constant headaches, sometimes right after a particular annoying conflict with the boss in question. Sometimes I would even see spots after getting yelled at as the headache was starting.

There is no doubt in my mind that these headaches were associated with the stress and high blood pressure. However I would be jumping to conclusions to attribute it to a specific diagnosis, and it may be true that I only remember the particularly bad headaches after a bad boss interaction and could be selecting those moments and discarding the others . . . ie confirmation bias at work. I dont get those headaches any more, and my BP is under control now. Proof . . . naw, but it sounds good and it fits from a physiological perspective, so it might be valid speculation.

Well, if my name is going to be mentioned, I guess I should jump right in here.

JB, once again you are using false logic to reach conclusions because you don't know enough about the topic to have an intelligent discussion. Billyclub is right on every point he has made, and your responses are unsurprisingly troll-like. The Sun's UV rays break chromosomes and cause cancer. It is one of the FIRST things most people learn about cancer. And once again, I see that he is unable to get down to a low enough level to make you understand.

Some things never change.