Topic: Cure for Cancer?
no photo
Thu 05/17/12 02:14 PM


Do your own research...
I trust the NIH, the AMA ect, not some quacks who couldn't cut it.

Thanks,


You would trust an organization that has been found guilty of slander, intimidation, petty grievances and the like...

Acording to the US goverment and thousands of cancer survivors, cancer was cured in the 50's.

Suppression is NOT scientific no matter how much you wish it were the case.


I see claims, lots of claims, so little evidence . . . as in none.

no photo
Thu 05/17/12 03:26 PM



Do your own research...
I trust the NIH, the AMA ect, not some quacks who couldn't cut it.

Thanks,


You would trust an organization that has been found guilty of slander, intimidation, petty grievances and the like...

Acording to the US goverment and thousands of cancer survivors, cancer was cured in the 50's.

Suppression is NOT scientific no matter how much you wish it were the case.


I see claims, lots of claims, so little evidence . . . as in none.


That's because you haven't looked.

Do your own research, you have google...



no photo
Thu 05/17/12 05:44 PM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEt5zd3YYHw


no photo
Thu 05/17/12 07:10 PM


http://www.scribd.com/doc/8294528/The-Rife-Microscope-Cure-Story


Citizen_Joe's photo
Fri 05/18/12 12:21 AM

I've heard it advertised lately that there's been new discoveries about cures for cancer that aren't being utilized because of the non-profitable nature of the cure. Any ideas on this and does anyone know anything about this issue? More importantly does anyone know what the cure is or might be?


There is medical research involving injesting marijuana, as well as sodium dichloracetate. The latter of which I've been encouraging instead of chemo-therapy, which is a barbaric and expensive process that has little in the way of payback on investment, similar to vaccines, which cause more grief than they cause. Look for DCA +cancer, and it will lead you to Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. On the positive, there are no negative side effects to just ordering it online, as it is unpatentable and requires no prescription. Similar attributes, both substances enhance your appetite. Coincidence?

no photo
Fri 05/18/12 07:34 AM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Fri 05/18/12 07:35 AM


I've heard it advertised lately that there's been new discoveries about cures for cancer that aren't being utilized because of the non-profitable nature of the cure. Any ideas on this and does anyone know anything about this issue? More importantly does anyone know what the cure is or might be?


There is medical research involving injesting marijuana, as well as sodium dichloracetate. The latter of which I've been encouraging instead of chemo-therapy, which is a barbaric and expensive process that has little in the way of payback on investment, similar to vaccines, which cause more grief than they cause. Look for DCA +cancer, and it will lead you to Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. On the positive, there are no negative side effects to just ordering it online, as it is unpatentable and requires no prescription. Similar attributes, both substances enhance your appetite. Coincidence?
More misinformation. Chemo as one of a variety of treatments is extremely effective, its about how soon you catch the cancer. Your nonsense about Vaccines is even worse.

Peter, YOUR the one linking to quack "therapies" these are YOUR claims, the burden of proof is on you.

Cancer being such a common disease there are an abundance of quacks trying to make a buck off of the ignorance of the masses.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/08/the_complexity_of_cancer_part_ii_enter_t.php

Cancer is not simple, it is not a singular disease, and making claims without support is the SOP of the quack.

Redykeulous's photo
Fri 05/18/12 07:40 AM


massagetrade,

Have you read much of Dr Hulda Clark?



I heard about her vaguely from my raw food friends, because some of them also think that parasites are the cause of all physical problems, and that eating 100% raw will cure you of all parasites and thus all disease.

Since I didn't remember anything about her, I looked her up just now, and apparently she was the seller of one of the electric parasite zapper devices, which i had heard of without knowing who popularized it. (Might also be more than one person who did so...). Those things are pure snake oil.



I do know that green black walnut hulls do kill ringworms on contact.

And yet go to a doctor and see all the expensive pills and ointments they will prescribe for ringworms. Does modern medicine really know as much as they think?


I'm not sure if you are implying that we should have less faith in the competence of modern medical professionals simply because individual practioners are ignorant of herbal remedies.

The main reason they are ignorant of herbal remedies is most people find DIY herbal remedies so damn inconvenient (unless purchased as a premade formula, in which case they cost/effectiveness ratio is not impressive) that they just aren't practical to prescribe for most people.

Most doctors do know that salicylic (sp?) acid comes from willow trees, and they also know that aspirin is so cheap and easy to use and readily available that less than 0.1% of the population would ever seriously consider using willow in place of aspirin. This is the kind of thing that I did when I was a teenager because it was fun, and because I wanted to prove to myself I could live wholly 'of the grid' if I wanted to.. but eventually things like that were no longer fun, they are just chores.

Back to your question - herbal remedies that actual work are part of the body of knowledge recognized by modern medical science - its just a part of the body of knowledge which is mostly ignored by most people.

Doctors have a hard enough time getting lazy, irresponsible people to actually follow through with their medication schedule, even when all they have to do is take one tiny little pill and be done with it. Imagine trying to get those people to go harvest their own herbs, or convince them to spend 4 times as much on something that works, but takes twice as long to work.



Not to mention that the work of growing food and having to prepare it for meals and for storage is one of the healthiest endeavors of all.

We so often devote ourselved to dull mindless and routine exercise that we lose much of the benefit of the activity. What's worse is that ever pervading idea that "well, I really had a good workout, I'm going to have that big banana split".

no photo
Fri 05/18/12 02:11 PM


http://www.naturalnews.com/z022389.html


no photo
Fri 05/18/12 02:25 PM


http://americasmedicalsociety.com/polling-suggests-the-once-great-ama-has-relinquished-its-leadership-role-2/


no photo
Mon 05/21/12 04:20 PM
Bushidobillyclub is getting paid to mislead you i think

no photo
Mon 05/21/12 05:59 PM

Bushidobillyclub is getting paid to mislead you i think


Some of us cannot be led...

Some of them must be led...


The people that need to be led are easily spotted, they sound like parrots...

no photo
Wed 05/23/12 02:02 PM

Bushidobillyclub is getting paid to mislead you i think
Ohhh of course, dont agree, you must be in on the conspiracy!

Lets get our tin foil hats guys, dont want those gnarly brain wave scanners to pick up the conspiracy!

no photo
Wed 05/23/12 03:07 PM


Bushidobillyclub is getting paid to mislead you i think
Ohhh of course, dont agree, you must be in on the conspiracy!

Lets get our tin foil hats guys, dont want those gnarly brain wave scanners to pick up the conspiracy!


wow, brilliant rebuttal.

This has to be your finest argument to date...


no photo
Wed 05/23/12 03:32 PM


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1535610806003722


no photo
Thu 05/24/12 07:18 AM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Thu 05/24/12 07:39 AM
Ok, I see that paper deals with path ways of cancer to be able to get past normal apoptosis, and how is this paper supporting your quackery?

If anything this paper supports the idea that cancer is not a simple fix.

Summary

The unique metabolic profile of cancer (aerobic glycolysis) might confer apoptosis resistance and be therapeutically targeted. Compared to normal cells, several human cancers have high mitochondrial membrane potential (ΔΨm) and low expression of the K+ channel Kv1.5, both contributing to apoptosis resistance. Dichloroacetate (DCA) inhibits mitochondrial pyruvate dehydrogenase kinase (PDK), shifts metabolism from glycolysis to glucose oxidation, decreases ΔΨm, increases mitochondrial H2O2, and activates Kv channels in all cancer, but not normal, cells; DCA upregulates Kv1.5 by an NFAT1-dependent mechanism. DCA induces apoptosis, decreases proliferation, and inhibits tumor growth, without apparent toxicity. Molecular inhibition of PDK2 by siRNA mimics DCA. The mitochondria-NFAT-Kv axis and PDK are important therapeutic targets in cancer; the orally available DCA is a promising selective anticancer agent.


ie, we hope, ie promising, as in lets do more research . . .. oh well imagine that, they did.

The study you quote here was from . . .
Received 25 November 2005. Revised 12 July 2006. Accepted 18 October 2006. Available online 16 January 2007. Published:


More recent studies have been done, can you find any of those Peter?
Here I will help you out
Results of phase II clinical trials

In in vitro studies, Evangelos Michelakis of University of Alberta found that in tissue samples from 49 patients, DCA caused depolarization of mitochondria in GBM tissue but not in normal brain tissue.[15]

Five palliative patients with primary GBM were entered into a phase II trial. Three had not responded to several chemotherapies; two were newly diagnosed. After surgical removal of tumor mass, they were treated with DCA and chemotherapy.[15]

Of the five patients tested, one died after three months. The surviving four were followed for 15 months. Their Karnofsky scores were unchanged in two cases, and decreased by 10 points in two patients.[15]

DCA was associated with tumor regression and had a good safety profile. DCA side effects were minimal.[15]

Michelakis is proceeding with phase three human studies with private funding from philanthropic groups and individuals. DCA's legal status as a discovery is public domain because it was made or discovered as far back as 1864[16] and has been used in the treatment of canine and human lactic acidosis, some who presented at the beginning of treatment with cancer.
Does that sound like a miracle drug? To me it sounds like it has mixed results, the community agrees, research continues. The fact that only half of the group had any benefit, and that benefit was small, means that if this drug becomes common in cancer treatment it will be a part of a therapeutic package, and not some single cure . . .

However it is still to soon to say much more than that really. They will need large RCT's conducted to rule out spurious results.





Modern revival, marketing, and health fraud

Interest in Rife was revived in the 1980s by author Barry Lynes, who wrote a book about Rife entitled "The Cancer Cure That Worked". The book claimed that Rife's 'beam ray' device could cure cancer, but that all mention of his discoveries was suppressed in the 1930s by a wide-ranging conspiracy headed by the American Medical Association. The American Cancer Society described Lynes' claims as implausible, noting that the book was written "in a style typical of conspiratorial theorists" and defied any independent verification.[5]

In response to this renewed interest, devices bearing Rife's name began to be produced and marketed in the 1980s. Such 'Rife devices' have figured prominently in a number of cases of health fraud in the U.S., typically centered around the uselessness of the devices and the grandiose claims with which they are marketed. In a 1996 case, the marketers of a 'Rife device' claiming to cure numerous diseases including cancer and AIDS were convicted of felony health fraud.[14] The sentencing judge described them as "target[ing] the most vulnerable people, including those suffering from terminal disease" and providing false hope.[15] In 2002 John Bryon Krueger, who operated the Royal Rife Research Society, was sentenced to 12 years in prison for his role in a murder and also received a concurrent 30-month sentence for illegally selling Rife devices. In 2009 a U.S. court convicted James Folsom of 26 felony counts for sale of the Rife devices sold as 'NatureTronics', 'AstroPulse', 'BioSolutions', 'Energy Wellness', and 'Global Wellness'. [16]

Several deaths have resulted from the use of Rife machines in place of standard medical treatment. In one case, a U.S. court found that the marketer of a Rife device had violated the law and that, as a result of her actions, a cancer patient had ceased chemotherapy and died.[17] In Australia, the use of Rife machines has been blamed for the deaths of cancer patients who might have been cured with conventional therapy.[8]

In 1994, the American Cancer Society reported that Rife machines were being sold in a "pyramid-like, multilevel marketing scheme". A key component in the marketing of Rife devices has been the claim, initially put forward by Rife himself, that the devices were being suppressed by an establishment conspiracy against cancer "cures".[5] Although 'Rife devices' are not registered by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and have been linked to deaths among cancer sufferers, the Seattle Times reported that over 300 people attended the 2006 Rife International Health Conference in Seattle, where dozens of unregistered devices were sold.[9]


People using his device die of cancer if they do not get treated.

no photo
Thu 05/24/12 07:30 AM



Bushidobillyclub is getting paid to mislead you i think
Ohhh of course, dont agree, you must be in on the conspiracy!

Lets get our tin foil hats guys, dont want those gnarly brain wave scanners to pick up the conspiracy!


wow, brilliant rebuttal.

This has to be your finest argument to date...




It was actually far more eloquent and thought out than volant7's post deserved.

no photo
Thu 05/24/12 07:42 AM
Any time someone quotes natural news I know they have drank the koolaid.


no photo
Thu 05/24/12 08:27 AM

Any time someone quotes natural news I know they have drank the koolaid.




And any time someone attacks the poster, I KNOW they have no intelligent rebuttal...


no photo
Thu 05/24/12 09:01 AM

Ok, I see that paper deals with path ways of cancer to be able to get past normal apoptosis, and how is this paper supporting your quackery?

If anything this paper supports the idea that cancer is not a simple fix.

Summary

The unique metabolic profile of cancer (aerobic glycolysis) might confer apoptosis resistance and be therapeutically targeted. Compared to normal cells, several human cancers have high mitochondrial membrane potential (ΔΨm) and low expression of the K+ channel Kv1.5, both contributing to apoptosis resistance. Dichloroacetate (DCA) inhibits mitochondrial pyruvate dehydrogenase kinase (PDK), shifts metabolism from glycolysis to glucose oxidation, decreases ΔΨm, increases mitochondrial H2O2, and activates Kv channels in all cancer, but not normal, cells; DCA upregulates Kv1.5 by an NFAT1-dependent mechanism. DCA induces apoptosis, decreases proliferation, and inhibits tumor growth, without apparent toxicity. Molecular inhibition of PDK2 by siRNA mimics DCA. The mitochondria-NFAT-Kv axis and PDK are important therapeutic targets in cancer; the orally available DCA is a promising selective anticancer agent.


ie, we hope, ie promising, as in lets do more research . . .. oh well imagine that, they did.

The study you quote here was from . . .
Received 25 November 2005. Revised 12 July 2006. Accepted 18 October 2006. Available online 16 January 2007. Published:


More recent studies have been done, can you find any of those Peter?
Here I will help you out
Results of phase II clinical trials

In in vitro studies, Evangelos Michelakis of University of Alberta found that in tissue samples from 49 patients, DCA caused depolarization of mitochondria in GBM tissue but not in normal brain tissue.[15]

Five palliative patients with primary GBM were entered into a phase II trial. Three had not responded to several chemotherapies; two were newly diagnosed. After surgical removal of tumor mass, they were treated with DCA and chemotherapy.[15]

Of the five patients tested, one died after three months. The surviving four were followed for 15 months. Their Karnofsky scores were unchanged in two cases, and decreased by 10 points in two patients.[15]

DCA was associated with tumor regression and had a good safety profile. DCA side effects were minimal.[15]

Michelakis is proceeding with phase three human studies with private funding from philanthropic groups and individuals. DCA's legal status as a discovery is public domain because it was made or discovered as far back as 1864[16] and has been used in the treatment of canine and human lactic acidosis, some who presented at the beginning of treatment with cancer.
Does that sound like a miracle drug? To me it sounds like it has mixed results, the community agrees, research continues. The fact that only half of the group had any benefit, and that benefit was small, means that if this drug becomes common in cancer treatment it will be a part of a therapeutic package, and not some single cure . . .

However it is still to soon to say much more than that really. They will need large RCT's conducted to rule out spurious results.





Modern revival, marketing, and health fraud

Interest in Rife was revived in the 1980s by author Barry Lynes, who wrote a book about Rife entitled "The Cancer Cure That Worked". The book claimed that Rife's 'beam ray' device could cure cancer, but that all mention of his discoveries was suppressed in the 1930s by a wide-ranging conspiracy headed by the American Medical Association. The American Cancer Society described Lynes' claims as implausible, noting that the book was written "in a style typical of conspiratorial theorists" and defied any independent verification.[5]

In response to this renewed interest, devices bearing Rife's name began to be produced and marketed in the 1980s. Such 'Rife devices' have figured prominently in a number of cases of health fraud in the U.S., typically centered around the uselessness of the devices and the grandiose claims with which they are marketed. In a 1996 case, the marketers of a 'Rife device' claiming to cure numerous diseases including cancer and AIDS were convicted of felony health fraud.[14] The sentencing judge described them as "target[ing] the most vulnerable people, including those suffering from terminal disease" and providing false hope.[15] In 2002 John Bryon Krueger, who operated the Royal Rife Research Society, was sentenced to 12 years in prison for his role in a murder and also received a concurrent 30-month sentence for illegally selling Rife devices. In 2009 a U.S. court convicted James Folsom of 26 felony counts for sale of the Rife devices sold as 'NatureTronics', 'AstroPulse', 'BioSolutions', 'Energy Wellness', and 'Global Wellness'. [16]

Several deaths have resulted from the use of Rife machines in place of standard medical treatment. In one case, a U.S. court found that the marketer of a Rife device had violated the law and that, as a result of her actions, a cancer patient had ceased chemotherapy and died.[17] In Australia, the use of Rife machines has been blamed for the deaths of cancer patients who might have been cured with conventional therapy.[8]

In 1994, the American Cancer Society reported that Rife machines were being sold in a "pyramid-like, multilevel marketing scheme". A key component in the marketing of Rife devices has been the claim, initially put forward by Rife himself, that the devices were being suppressed by an establishment conspiracy against cancer "cures".[5] Although 'Rife devices' are not registered by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and have been linked to deaths among cancer sufferers, the Seattle Times reported that over 300 people attended the 2006 Rife International Health Conference in Seattle, where dozens of unregistered devices were sold.[9]


People using his device die of cancer if they do not get treated.


You admit that DCA is promising and you still call it "quackery"?
I suppose we should suppress DCA too?

If you read that study, you would have seen this:
"Electrophysiology
With standard whole-cell patch-clamping techniques, cells were voltage clamped at a holding potential of −70 mV and currents were evoked by 200 ms test pulses from −70 to +70 mV with 20 mV steps, filtered at 1 kHz, and sampled at 2–4 kHz, as previously described."

Hmmm? Seems like some scientists stole a quack's idea, now doesn't it?


As for the Rife machines, you should do some research. R. Rife himself said that the machines built by Hoyland didn't work consistently. Rife's machines were simple and built by himself.
Spend a couple hours watching the vids about Rife, fact check what you can. Do you deny that he had an optical, high-resolution microscope?


I'm just providing links, I'm not making any claims about the efficacy of any treatments.

I'd like to see a team actually apply his (Rife's) technique instead of some off-handed claims of "quack" with no data available. I'd like to see them all properly tested.


no photo
Thu 05/24/12 09:29 AM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Thu 05/24/12 09:32 AM
You admit that DCA is promising and you still call it "quackery"?
I suppose we should suppress DCA too?
I never called DCA quackery. Your straw man. I have called people who think DCA is the one single cure to all cancer, quacks, and what they espouse is quackery.

R. Rife himself said that the machines built by Hoyland didn't work consistently.
By what mechanism does this device have any effect on cancer?

I'm just providing links, I'm not making any claims about the efficacy of any treatments.
This is a common caveat when a person does not feel they can back up there comments. Basically your JAQ'ing off.

Do you deny that he had an optical, high-resolution microscope?
This has nothing to do with cancer, it seems like an underhanded implication of an argument from authority.