creationism and evolution will be at loggerheads forever. Creationism has many loopholes if you come from the scientific perspective, the perspective of proof. Creationism's point of departure is faith, and mostly blind faith. Only those with mystical abilities can claim to know something of the divine with some degree of certainty.

On the other hand evolution or sciece theories still have to discovered and "certain" modus operanti of God in order for them to claim that God has got nothing to do with creation. Some things just can't be proven. If you scrutinize the evolution theory you will realize that the beginning part of a non-living being giving rise to a living being will never make sense, scientifically actuall, but religiously it makes sense.

Well this is the science forum. Here we require objective information to make conclusions.

Creation is bunk. It does not meet the standards. Evolution is the unifying theory of biology, it makes sense of every other field of biological research and combines more knowledge together into a functional whole than really any other field of research humanity has ever undertaken.

This is not an overstatement.

For anyone who doubts evolution. I have one thing to say, you have not learned enough science to even understand why you are wrong. I was once you.

Bushidobillyclub, I don't "doubt" evolution. But evolution does not prove that creation is "bunk."

There is creative intelligence involved in the manifestation of life in this universe. Life comes from life.

If life comes from inanimate, unintelligent, unconscious matter, then at what point in that process does a particle of dead inanimate matter become alive or conscious?

What two or more inanimate particles of dead lifeless unconscious matter can come together and cause life and consciousness to be born?

Have you heard of the concept that everything is connected?

Everything exchanges energy and information with that which it comes into contact with. That is a form of intelligence when its ultimate result is intelligent life.

If intelligent life comes from unintelligent dead matter, then there has to be a miracle involved where the dead comes alive, or where life is born from death or nothing.

I believe there is life and creative intelligence involved. That is my position. The universe is alive. Everything in it is alive.

But I am still waiting for someone to explain to me how intelligent life can come from dead unconscious matter.

I'm willing to accept the premise and the possibility that it does, and that I am wrong. But if that is the case, it follows that there must be a formula that can create life out of dead unconscious matter, (if dead unconscious matter even exists.)

How is life born from death? What is the combination or formula?

We laugh at the idea of Dr. Frankenstein creating life from a dead body and a stolen brain, and say that is impossible, but yet scientists say that life in this universe comes from dead unconscious inanimate matter by way of "evolution."

So where are the mad scientists creating life from dead matter? If a formula exists why aren't they working to find it? If evolution resulted in intelligent life from simple elements, considered to be inanimate and dead, then there must be a formula to create life.

If evolution resulted in intelligent life from simple elements, considered to be inanimate and dead,(or unconscious) then there must be a formula to create life.

I am still waiting to hear from any scientist or evolutionist about any scientist that is indeed working on the formula for creating life from inanimate or dead matter.

How about we start with a scientific definition for "dead."

What is the difference between a dead planet and a living planet? A dead star and a living star? Having active energy and having no energy? Growing or not growing? Moving or not moving?

What is "dead" as apposed to "alive?"

Where are the scientists who are working on this miraculous formula for life in this universe or world?

Science really isn't your subject.

http://news.discovery.com/tech/synthetic-genome-life.html

I don't think I ever claimed that science was my subject. So what?
That does not mean I can't ask these questions, and it certainly does not mean I am stupid.

However interesting that article is, it is not really what I asked for.

While synthetic biology aims to reprogram entire organisms, including bacteria and viruses, by writing DNA sequences, it is not exactly what I would call "creating life."

Tinkering around maybe.

The scientist at the end of the article wrote:

"We can write anything we want," said Arnold. "The problem is that we don't know what to write."

That's kind of funny.



So the host cell must have been "alive" and/or at least designed to be responsive to the DNA instructions because it then began to reproduce.

(If reproduction is how you define "life" then I guess you can say they created life, but they did not create the cell, only the DNA. Can they produce an artificial synthetic cell that responds to artificial synthetic DNA yet?

When they do that an I'll be more impressed.

One day we may be able to create a synthetic human body that works. If we do, how conscious and self aware will it become?

So as intelligent as these scientists are, they are still not intelligent enough to create much of anything yet. And they don't know what to write. If and when they do discover how to create another intelligent life from the basic elements, then they would have to prove that all of their hard work could also have happened on accident via evolution.

Or else they would then realize that they are now creator gods.

And yet, some of you (scientific minded) still appear to believe that the universe at large, all on its own, by accident, somehow evolved an unknown number of living creatures and "intelligent" humanoids with no creative intelligence involved at all. It was all chance or accident.

The universe manifests life.
Living cells are made with certain kinds of molecules.

If life comes from life, this means that the universe itself is alive.

wiki--
DNA is a nucleic acid containing the genetic instructions used in the development and functioning of all known living organisms (with the exception of RNA viruses). The DNA segments carrying this genetic information are called genes. Likewise, other DNA sequences have structural purposes, or are involved in regulating the use of this genetic information.---


What I wonder is where did these genetic instructions in the DNA come from?


...and how can DNA sequences regulate information? Are they themselves intelligent or conscious? I don't think they are considered to be intelligent or conscious. So how are they used to regulate genetic information?

I think universal consciousness is involved in that everything in the universe is connected and communicates.

<<< missing link .... i say 100% creation no missing link:)

an intelligent designer does not meet the definition of a theory, at least not a science is concerned:



'a good theory will describe a large range of phenomena on the basis of a few simple postulates and will make definite predictions that can be tested. if the predictions agree with the observations, the theory survives that test, although it can never be proveed to be correct.'

hawking, 'the universe in a nutshell'

there simply is no evidence of an intelligent designer that can be tested to show repeatable and predictable results.

this sounds like how religion got started. just because someone doesn't understand something, doesn't mean the easiest answer is true.
maybe the universe is alive, but i really doubt it. with all the trillions of combinations of chemicals out there, and the trillions of years it took to combine them the right way, it is possible that the right balance took effect and life was started. and not just here either.

What do you mean "not just here?"

When I speak of "the universe" I am talking of the entire physical universe. Not just this local galaxy.

You said:

"it is possible that the right balance took effect and life was started."

Of course its "possible." Here we are!

Whether or not it was an accident is the question. Whether or not there was intelligence involved in picking the right combination is what is being asked.

Maybe this entire universe was started in a petry dish in some giant lab in some larger universe. LOL

Since the idea of intelligent design or a living universe is pretty much rejected by the ordinary science community why would I allow myself to be constrained scientific definition of the term "theory?"

Of course the Universe is alive. That is why it is full of life.

You said:
"There simply is no evidence of an intelligent designer that can be tested to show repeatable and predictable results."

The above statement is wrong. Not only are there intelligent designers, mankind has created synthetic life. Do you consider mankind to be intelligent?

If so, then there is proof positive of an intelligent designer. We are intelligent designers.

I suppose one day our creations will wonder if we exist. LOL

or we could the in the space between some giant atoms... we don't know...

Yep. Large and small... its all relative.

We may live in an infinite fractal universe.

I can't help but wonder if you are an atheist troll, trying to make creationists look stupid.

It is not possible to use any amount of effort in trying to make creationists look stupid.

With what we know now about the working of the world. Or rather, with the available knowledge that can be tapped into by any person who did not take science or biology in high school, or if he or she did, already forgot it.

Trolls are creations of the imagination. They are mythical beasts, resembling more a religious superstition, than a scientific fact.

Inasmuch as the above is true, the construct "atheist troll" does not exists, much like an atheist angel does not exist, or an atheist god. Or an atheist citizen of the United States of America.

"... I don't "doubt" evolution. But evolution does not prove that creation is "bunk."



JeannieBean I agree with others, you have to understand science before you say things as you do.

JeannieBean, Evolution does not set out to disprove creation because its objective is not to do so. Evolution is a theory as is Creative Intelligence, a Creation theory. When people set out prove a theory like Darwin with the Evolution theory, there is no iniative to discredit any other theory but merely to prove the theory that is stated in regards to evolution. It does not set out to disprove other theories.


"There is creative intelligence involved in the manifestation of life in this universe. Life comes from life."

Did you know JeannieBean that the universe, matter in the universe and man are made up of the same elements? Elements from the periodic table in science such as carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, phosphate, sulphate, calcium, iron, ... etc. The universe is alive dying and being born continuously for billions of years, the stars, planets, suns, galaxies ... . Yes JeannieBean, life does comes from life, all that exists is matter, and that all life is merely a complex form or arrangement of matter.

Everything is connected you are correct and everything exchanges energy with that which it comes into contact with. Plants, human receive the sun's energy for example.



"If intelligent life comes from unintelligent dead matter, then there has to be a miracle involved where the dead comes alive, or where life is born from death or nothing."


A miracle is not required for life to exist. As you know from chemistry and a simple experiment is the reaction of vinegar and baking soda a volcano effect of bubbles and gases given off. There is change and effect happening. Same thing with the elements of the universe are constantly undergoing reactions. For example, take meteorites that break off and plant themselves when they hit on another planet for example and continuely over millions and billions of year a combination is right, there is a reaction between existing elements throughout the universe and life will begin somewhere. Probability proves the reality JeannieBean, or proves creation.

Did you know too that the Bible has two creation theories in Genesis. The second creation theory is God breathed into the nostrils of man to give him life. But man existed beforehand, so God gave him "spiriutal" life existence. The other theory God created man and all other things on earth, the universe. However, science has a theory that can prove life can evolve being all things are made up of the same matter or elements.


I am curious, exactly what is your Creative Intelligence theory all about? Where does God come from and how does your theory explain his existence that you so aggressively support?
Give me some proof can you?