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Topic: Obama against the Catholics
smart2009's photo
Thu 02/09/12 01:17 AM
President Obama ’s mandate, via the federal Health and Human Services Department, requiring all Catholic universities and hospitals to cover contraception and sterilization procedures in their insurance plans is an unforgivable abuse of federal power, and has become a lightning rod for those who believe religion should be largely free of government interference.
According to many strategists, it’s a decision that could doom the President’s reelection bid, reignitingthe old culture wars overthe place of religion in America.
It certainly does seem a sinister affront to a group of people for whom right-to-life issues are central to their religious doctrine. But — and I ask this as a person with an unblemished record of defending Christian America — is Obama’s new mandate as alienating to Catholics assome on the right wouldhave us believe?
Catholic America is in themidst of an identity crisis, one that’s been boiling up for years now.While right-to-life issuesare central to Catholic dogma on paper, it would seem most Catholics don’t always live — or even vote — their beliefs.
That has been masked somewhat by the media furor over the issue. Groups like the Catholic League have condemnedObama for this move, while GOP front-runner Mitt Romney thundered, “I will not hesitate to use the powers of the presidency to protect religious liberty.”
On Tuesday, presidential adviser David Axelrod announced that the White House might be looking for a compromise. “We certainly don’t want to abridge anyone’s religious freedoms” he said on MSNBC. But whatever the future of Obama’s contraception plan may be, it has already taught us plenty about how far the President is willing to gowhen it comes to government overreach.
Yet according to a Guttmacher Institute report, only 2% of Catholic women rely on natural family planning. A full 98% of sexually experienced Catholic women have used a contraceptive method atleast once, and 68% of Catholic women regularly rely on birth control methods like the pill or female sterilization.
Moreover, new polling by the Public Religion Research Institute shows that nearly 60% of all American Catholics believe that health plans should cover contraception.
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/obama-catholic-problem-article-1.1018773?localLinksEnabled=false

msharmony's photo
Thu 02/09/12 01:29 AM
I feel contraception is not a necessity like medication or procedures to manage or cure pain and illness,,,but we will see how it turns out,,,

Sin_and_Sorrow's photo
Thu 02/09/12 02:58 AM
..maybe it's cause it's early but..

I don't see wtf the big deal is?

Exactly how is that against Christianity?

Especially the hypocrites of Christianity.

"...free from Government influence..."

Psh.

Christians, why do you love to b**** so much?

You proclaimed, 'delictum gravius' to people having sex with underage children...
...yet a major portion of them around that time; were in fact priests.
In fact, reports of such arose in all of the major countries.

Then you proclaim homosexuality is a delictum gravius..

Really? Another grave sin?
Yet, meanwhile, the King James version, most widely used Christian version; was written by a rainbow bright follower.

Nice.

Now this?

98% of your women use it..
..yet you wanna toss a fit, because he's stating to make it part of the insurance coverage?

Please.

So, point out what I'm missing..

Conrad_73's photo
Thu 02/09/12 03:38 AM
If he keeps psssng off people like that,soon there won't be anyone left to vote for him come November!laugh


Besides it's none of the FED's Business!
If one Hospital or Insurance doesn't cover it,and others are,guess where the Business will go!

Sin_and_Sorrow's photo
Thu 02/09/12 04:08 AM

If he keeps psssng off people like that,soon there won't be anyone left to vote for him come November!laugh


Besides it's none of the FED's Business!
If one Hospital or Insurance doesn't cover it,and others are,guess where the Business will go!


I disagree with the first, only because they'd be hypocritical morons to even be 'angered'.

I do, however, totally agree with the second statement.
It's not their business, let 'em do what they will.

RKISIT's photo
Thu 02/09/12 05:20 AM
:banana: Congrats Obama you have officially became the 100th anti-christ,let the rapture begin:banana:

Chazster's photo
Thu 02/09/12 06:37 AM

..maybe it's cause it's early but..

I don't see wtf the big deal is?

Exactly how is that against Christianity?

Especially the hypocrites of Christianity.

"...free from Government influence..."

Psh.

Christians, why do you love to b**** so much?

You proclaimed, 'delictum gravius' to people having sex with underage children...
...yet a major portion of them around that time; were in fact priests.
In fact, reports of such arose in all of the major countries.

Then you proclaim homosexuality is a delictum gravius..

Really? Another grave sin?
Yet, meanwhile, the King James version, most widely used Christian version; was written by a rainbow bright follower.

Nice.

Now this?

98% of your women use it..
..yet you wanna toss a fit, because he's stating to make it part of the insurance coverage?

Please.

So, point out what I'm missing..


How is it against Christianity? Ok now I am a Catholic but not really one that practices much but I can explain it to you. The Bible says something somewhere about how a man is not to spill his seed unless he plans to procreate. Thus the church has deemed condoms etc a sin. Also they believe that life begins at conception and at that point the soul enters the body.

These are their beliefs. There are many Hospitals run by churches and since they don't belief in those things they don't offer them. There is actually hospital in my town that will close down before it offers abortions as they have stated this. Also the Church has many jobs associated with the Church and they also don't want to have to cover those things with their healthcare.

So while I don't necessarily believe things like condoms are bad I don't respect the churches religious freedom to not offer them and I understand where they are coming from. This will probably be taken to court as unconstitutional before 2013.

msharmony's photo
Thu 02/09/12 07:15 AM

..maybe it's cause it's early but..

I don't see wtf the big deal is?

Exactly how is that against Christianity?

Especially the hypocrites of Christianity.

"...free from Government influence..."

Psh.

Christians, why do you love to b**** so much?

You proclaimed, 'delictum gravius' to people having sex with underage children...
...yet a major portion of them around that time; were in fact priests.
In fact, reports of such arose in all of the major countries.

Then you proclaim homosexuality is a delictum gravius..

Really? Another grave sin?
Yet, meanwhile, the King James version, most widely used Christian version; was written by a rainbow bright follower.

Nice.

Now this?

98% of your women use it..
..yet you wanna toss a fit, because he's stating to make it part of the insurance coverage?

Please.

So, point out what I'm missing..



the part about MANDATING something,,,which is always controversial

particularly if it concerns conflict between religious belief and law

to put it in perspective, Im not sure how many people CHOOSE to eat chocolate (probably plenty) but people would probably be in outrage (including some chocolate lovers) if there were suddenly legislation mandating that health food stores sell chocolate

its a clear conflict of purpose that becomes controversial when it is mandated,,,,

Conrad_73's photo
Thu 02/09/12 07:17 AM


If he keeps psssng off people like that,soon there won't be anyone left to vote for him come November!laugh


Besides it's none of the FED's Business!
If one Hospital or Insurance doesn't cover it,and others are,guess where the Business will go!


I disagree with the first, only because they'd be hypocritical morons to even be 'angered'.

I do, however, totally agree with the second statement.
It's not their business, let 'em do what they will.
First part was actually Tongue-in-Cheek!bigsmile

Winx's photo
Thu 02/09/12 09:36 AM
Twenty eight states already require the same thing and some of those twenty eight states provide no exception for churches. This is employer/employee law - not religion/non-religion. Obama provides an exception for churches; but, not church affiliated businesses. Churches as employers are mandated to provide worker comp insurance too. Same difference.

Chazster's photo
Thu 02/09/12 04:54 PM

Twenty eight states already require the same thing and some of those twenty eight states provide no exception for churches. This is employer/employee law - not religion/non-religion. Obama provides an exception for churches; but, not church affiliated businesses. Churches as employers are mandated to provide worker comp insurance too. Same difference.


He isn't just mandating the employer he is mandating the hospital even if it is privately owned.

AdventureBegins's photo
Thu 02/09/12 09:00 PM
Edited by AdventureBegins on Thu 02/09/12 09:01 PM

Twenty eight states already require the same thing and some of those twenty eight states provide no exception for churches. This is employer/employee law - not religion/non-religion. Obama provides an exception for churches; but, not church affiliated businesses. Churches as employers are mandated to provide worker comp insurance too. Same difference.

Catholic hospitals are not 'church affiliated business'...

They are built and maintained because that is a part of their beliefs and they are built by the tithes and offerings of the Faithful (not the gold of the government).

To care for.

A part of the Catholic way of life.

Of a certianity their hospitals and houses of worship are both one and the same. One is used for ritual the other to heal.

What part of 'or the free exercise thereof' does the Federal Government not understand?

Shame upon our congress at the time this bill was 'considered'.

It becomes obvious they did not read it else this would never have even reached this point.

no photo
Thu 02/09/12 09:14 PM
I am Catholic and do not see this as an attack on Catholics.

I see it as a benefit to women. PERIOD!

People are making it a political issue.

If anything, I would think more women in this country would be upset with the GOP and the Catholic Bishops for making this an issue.


no photo
Thu 02/09/12 09:42 PM
President Obama ’s mandate, via the federal Health and Human Services Department, requiring all Catholic universities and hospitals to cover contraception and sterilization procedures in their insurance plans is an unforgivable abuse of federal power, and has become a lightning rod for those who believe religion should be largely free of government interference.


drinker :banana:

Good for him.

Health care for women should not be controlled by the Catholic Church. If people are catholic then they should still have the freedom to obey the Church's strange ideas about contraception OR NOT.

If they don't want to be popping out a bunch of babies for the empire and they want contraception they should have the right to do so and that is CALLED HEALTH CARE.

Everything Obama does that gets people riled up, just makes me want to vote for him!

Good for him.


AdventureBegins's photo
Thu 02/09/12 09:45 PM
I am not a Catholic. Yet I see this as a greivious error.

It is not about contraception (to my eyes) rather its is about allowing the Catholic Faith to be...
Well...

Catholic.

A Catholic Hospital is a place of Worship and Faith. It exemplifies all that they stand for.

It was built to heal the sick and injured because God told them to build such. (by their faith).

It is absolutely a place under jurisdiction of Faith.

One of their basic tenants is that a woman should have self control.

and the government expects them to then Give their employees the lure of no consequences and so violate their covenant with God.

Next will be say we may not pray in public.

Which offends me as I must pray where I am at the moment I pray.

Yet I am exorted to follow the laws of the land where I reside.


no photo
Thu 02/09/12 09:50 PM

I am not a Catholic. Yet I see this as a greivious error.

It is not about contraception (to my eyes) rather its is about allowing the Catholic Faith to be...
Well...

Catholic.

A Catholic Hospital is a place of Worship and Faith. It exemplifies all that they stand for.

It was built to heal the sick and injured because God told them to build such. (by their faith).

It is absolutely a place under jurisdiction of Faith.

One of their basic tenants is that a woman should have self control.

and the government expects them to then Give their employees the lure of no consequences and so violate their covenant with God.

Next will be say we may not pray in public.

Which offends me as I must pray where I am at the moment I pray.

Yet I am exorted to follow the laws of the land where I reside.





Again, pass a law that a woman can shoot and kill a man who attempts to rape her and I will show you a woman with "self control.

The Church should not be in the business of Hospitals if they have a policy that woman are for the purpose of having children and their health means nothing.

Self control? In recent years past, a man could legally take his wife by force (rape) and it was not against any law.

If a hospital is still living in the dark ages, it should not be a hospital.

I would never go to a Catholic hospital.




msharmony's photo
Thu 02/09/12 09:50 PM
Edited by msharmony on Thu 02/09/12 09:51 PM
To put that into practice, a Catholic hospital operates according to the directives established by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. Those directives for Catholic Heath Care Services are contained in a 12-page document that interested readers can find at http://www.usccb.org/.



it does seem to be a major conflict between how CATHOLIC hospitals are directed to operate by their superiors

kind of like mandating veterans hospitals start admitting non veterans,,,,

or insane asylums admit the sane

there are plenty of public hospitals and NON religious hospitals to choose from that I dont quite understand why this mandate would be necessary,,,

I would like to read more of the actual bill to see what the details really are though,,,

Sin_and_Sorrow's photo
Thu 02/09/12 09:51 PM

President Obama ’s mandate, via the federal Health and Human Services Department, requiring all Catholic universities and hospitals to cover contraception and sterilization procedures in their insurance plans is an unforgivable abuse of federal power, and has become a lightning rod for those who believe religion should be largely free of government interference.


drinker :banana:

Good for him.

Health care for women should not be controlled by the Catholic Church. If people are catholic then they should still have the freedom to obey the Church's strange ideas about contraception OR NOT.

If they don't want to be popping out a bunch of babies for the empire and they want contraception they should have the right to do so and that is CALLED HEALTH CARE.

Everything Obama does that gets people riled up, just makes me want to vote for him!

Good for him.




..from a religious stand point.

The outrage from the Christianity community would arise from the idea of what the Bible itself entails. That sex is only to take place between two married consenting adults.

While the firmness of holding and adhering to this has become nearly impossible, to do this, in their eyes, would have a reverse effect; and is actually and ultimately promoting them to have even more pre-marital intercourse.

However, I am not religious.
I am not female either.

So ultimately..

I don't really give two chits.

no photo
Thu 02/09/12 09:53 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Thu 02/09/12 09:55 PM
The Catholic Church is still in the dark ages, and it needs to go away.

:angry:

I think it is a front for a world spy organization. There are catholic spies (Deacons and nuns) in just about every country.

Sin_and_Sorrow's photo
Thu 02/09/12 09:56 PM

The Catholic Church is still in the dark ages, and it needs to go away.

:angry:

I think it is a front for a world spy organization. There are catholic spies (Deacons and nuns) in just about every country.


...that's a new conspiracy I've yet to hear of.

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