Unions are a MAJOR reason for the loss of manufacturing in the US, and not just the auto industry. It is also a major reason the rust belt is rusting and motown is becoming a ghosttown. It is also a major reason states like Texas have a net gain in manufacturing while the Northern states lose industry.

Everyone knows the unions are corrupt except the union membership.

A main problem is the "ratchet effect". When times are good and profits are high, the unions want pay raises and increased benefits, even if they already have high pay and great benefits. When times are bad and profits are low, the unions would rather watch the business go under than give back anything that was unreasonable to start with. The pay ratchets up, but it seldom ratchets down.

The biggest reason for the economic collapse of 08 was that too much control of the wealth of this county was in the hands of too
few interconnected and unregulated banks and brokerage houses who
went wild with risky investment practices in order to fill their pockets./

And it had nothing to do with mortgage defaults and the government pushing banks to lower their lending standards or real estate companies pushing more and more building..

Nothing at all to do with any of this..

Tucker, Saturn would not have gone "belly up" with less regs and more gov't support...also competition is good for product quality so he wins a point there...Unions, antiquated, another point....AND last, the bailout money could have traveled miles in setting new, better, more cost effective, plants FROM SCRATCH......

with love, this is of course a personal opinion that is not backed up by 'facts' anymore than anyone elses


regulations are a necessity , just as rules are, when you deal with large numbers of people

and I dont know of any regulations that mandate the things posted above, unless perhaps its tied to profits


if those 'lazy' workers are making someone record profits, they should be looked after

in that very country of China, that doesnt supposedly regulate the business persons opening businesses

employers must give severance pay after employment of up to six months, usually after two

working an employee overtime requires time and a half on working days
twice time on the 'rest day' (our sunday) and thrice time on national holidays

safet regulations are enforced which contribute to a rate of about one workplace death per ten thousand people,,,,


not only are there workers unions, but there are COMPANY unions set up to protect managment

pregnant women are ENTITLED to at least three months paid leave

there is no 'at will' hiring

pregnant employees cannot be fired, or those within five years of retirement

,,,there are a list of other 'protective' regulations in China, and there is also a totally different CULTURE, its not all roses for either employers or employees so I would not personally hold them up as an example of 'less regulation'


in truth, its the easiest thing in the world to claim people are 'lazy' or employers are 'greedy', but the truth is people work to earn money and people hire to MAKE money and the problems we see with employment numbers is a combination of BOTH instances of laziness and instances of greediness

some will argue that less lazy employee will result in better employment, and others will argue that better employment conditions would result in better employees

there is no way to know for sure,, but I do believe companies are NOT PEOPLE, and when people feel they count and are valued they work harder than when they just feel like a pawn being used for someone elses wealth

with love, this is of course a personal opinion that is not backed up by 'facts' anymore than anyone elses


regulations are a necessity , just as rules are, when you deal with large numbers of people

and I dont know of any regulations that mandate the things posted above, unless perhaps its tied to profits


if those 'lazy' workers are making someone record profits, they should be looked after

in that very country of China, that doesnt supposedly regulate the business persons opening businesses

employers must give severance pay after employment of up to six months, usually after two

working an employee overtime requires time and a half on working days
twice time on the 'rest day' (our sunday) and thrice time on national holidays

safet regulations are enforced which contribute to a rate of about one workplace death per ten thousand people,,,,(higher than the 3.5 per one hundred thousand in america


not only are there workers unions, but there are COMPANY unions set up to protect managment

pregnant women are ENTITLED to at least three months paid leave

there is no 'at will' hiring

pregnant employees cannot be fired, or those within five years of retirement

,,,there are a list of other 'protective' regulations in China, and there is also a totally different CULTURE, its not all roses for either employers or employees so I would not personally hold them up as an example of 'less regulation'


in truth, its the easiest thing in the world to claim people are 'lazy' or employers are 'greedy', but the truth is people work to earn money and people hire to MAKE money and the problems we see with employment numbers is a combination of BOTH instances of laziness and instances of greediness

some will argue that less lazy employee will result in better employment, and others will argue that better employment conditions would result in better employees

there is no way to know for sure,, but I do believe companies are NOT PEOPLE, and when people feel they count and are valued they work harder than when they just feel like a pawn being used for someone elses wealth

With love back Harmony, this is way over simplified and you know it....And I'm not saying regs are unnecessary, I am saying they have been pushed to the extreme and need to be modified, cut back, revamped all together...what good is saving the planet if we can't afford to live on it?

Like Pawns for an Union-Bosses Wealth?
Forbidden to work unless they join a Union!

more simplified than 'its the lazy employees fault?'? or 'regulations are to blame'?

I actually considered and included BOTH of those situations, so Im not sure how it was over simplified

I understand the quandry whenever something is 'mandated' in the so called land of the free

its complex because in theory it would be nice to be able to CHOOSE to join the union, but in reality, because people doing the same job are supposed to receive the same pay and because UNIONS negotiate wages

optional membership would mean that SOME were paying for the negotiations that insured their incomes, while others were getting that same negotiation for free

although we do still have the option to CHOOSE employment that is non union,, which is the growing number of jobs in this management/wealthy friendly culture

I wouldnt want to get rid of that program for negotiation, the unions
I also understand how peoples panties get in a bunch when told what they must do

I feel that way when Im told to do things that arent in my 'job description',, oh wait, employers rarely have to even have those anymore,,,,,lol

on the clock, you pretty much have whatever job they deem to give you, as long as its not hazardous,,,and theyd like the option to pay you as much or as little as they want regardless of how 'hard' they expect you to work

What happened to The Right To Work?

if the economy continues to improve he will win.

'manipulated' numbers can be used to either make candidates look better or worse

they could be used to put a negative enough light on him to lose, and they could also be used to put a positive enough light on him to win

accurate numbers could be used the same way,,,,

Yes, like I don't know this?...What it really boils down to is who has the most money to reach the biggest audience....

And also, it's pretty damn funny what you say about people being maimed and killed by using bad/inferior products when 90 percent of what you see on the shelves here in American is imported from "A" country which works and produces goods with virtually NO safety regs in place...Not to mention the education level of the workers...No, the truth of the matter is American blue color workers got soft, they got lazy...and the reason they did is because government allowed it, government endorsed it, government capitalized on it (ie Unions for one)....

You want to know what killing jobs, killing manufacturing in America?...Then read this....The bailout was nothing more than a pizzing contest...one hand washing the other.....


One of the greatest threats facing our country today doesn't come from outside our borders. It's not the possibility of a terrorist attack. It is not the continually increasing illegal immigration across our southern border. It's not even the likelihood of a disrupted oil supply.
The greatest problem we face is the self-imposed cost and regulatory burden placed on the development of manufacturing businesses. America, at least the America I grew up in, was the land of the free and the home of the innovator. We used to celebrate entrepreneurs and reward those willing to take a risk. America, the "can do" America of my early years, allowed it's innovators to operate with relatively little restraint or restriction. If you wanted to start and operate a business, "have at it, we wish you success" was the motto of our great nation. If you had an idea for a "better mouse trap" build your plant, install your equipment, hire your people and good luck.
In the '60s we had a positive balance of trade and it was growing faster than anywhere else in the world. Japan, the second most industrialized country, produced goods that were considered inferior to those produced by our great American factories. China, South Korea, Mexico? Not even on the map! Today our balance of trade is negative by a long shot and the quality of our manufactured goods is inferior to that of many other countries. Much of what we consider manufacturing in the U.S. today is really the assembly of components manufactured in other countries. Manufacturing profits go to businesses outside America because we regulate manufacturing facilities into oblivion.
Today the environment for starting and operating a manufacturing plant is not good. Gone are the days of "Great, go to it, do the best you can." Replaced by, "NIMBY" -- Not In My Back Yard. The government has imposed itself as our costly overseer, placing environmental, zoning, and wage/benefit restrictions so burdensome in time and cost that businesses are left barely competitive if not impossible to begin.
Have a great idea? See a viable opportunity? Want to build a product or establish a manufacturing plant? Go see your local government officials. You will find the "go for it" attitude replaced with, Manufacturing??? Why do you want to consider such a dirty business? Why would you want to put your fellow citizens at risk? What would we do if someone were to get hurt? How could we possibly live with ourselves if, God forbid, some kind of particle escaped into the air or blew into a river? How could you live with yourself if your employees weren't all being treated equally and being supplied with incredibly attractive wages and benefits?
I would like to relate my recent experience trying to start a Carbon Fibre manufacturing company in a Northeastern U.S. State. After meeting for three weeks with the economic development offices of the State and City, it was determined that after I located and acquired a facility, at my cost and risk, even if it were properly zoned, it would have to be approved for a special use exception. Thereafter we were told to budget in excess of $300K for pre-approval EPA, environmental, and other studies. The studies would take about 6 months at minimum -- with no guarantee of a successful outcome. Even if we were approved, and in spite of the fact that at opening we would be hiring approximately 25 technically competent people in a high unemployment region, we would have to go to the Union hall and negotiate a trades contract before hiring the first employee. I would be forced to unionize and hire more expensive, "senior union members." I am not allowed to go to Craigslist and hire younger, entry level trainees. My cost of operation becomes higher before even opening my doors and I have no choice in this matter. Unbelievable!!!
Even if I am willing to take the time, spend the money, and successfully navigate the bureaucratic hurdles, what additional risks do I face? How about this: OSHA arbitrarily decides I'm not in compliance with one clause in their multi-thousand page regulatory bible. Or, an employee-union member decides he is not being treated fairly or that the benefits package is not equal to that of federal or state employees, and files a grievance How about the EPA deciding, retroactively, that in the event of a power outage there is a chance my factory might leak a "toxic" substance? I will be sued, shut down and possibly prosecuted criminally.
Now, consider my experience the last time I visited China. I was escorted by the governor of Tianjin State to one of his new cities and shown the process to open a manufacturing facility. I was led into a room with a series of desks. You start at the first desk where you present your plan. Thereafter you proceed from one to the next obtaining approvals or agree to modifications on the spot until at the last table where you are shown what lots and buildings are available that best suit your needs and the price of each. The total timeline for permits, from beginning to approval, takes about 3 hours.
At the end of the line you pay your fee, get your permit, and choose your construction manager if a new building is necessary. The city designates the building team to come the following day and begin construction. Generally you are guaranteed that you will be able to move your equipment in within 5 months.
There are no restrictions on importation of equipment, state officials help with marketing and sales inside the country and do not restrict exportation of the manufactured goods or profits. Now, this is China so the government and the state share 30% of your business, but considering the ease of entry, increased in-country sales and helpful attitude, this is a small price to pay, especially considering America's 35% plus corporate tax rates. Also, if the price of the lot or building seems high, and they like your project, they will negotiate the price and terms.
This is why our balance of trade is so out of whack. This is why many companies move out of the United States for foreign environs. This is why the United States is losing its position as the greatest manufacturing country in the world.
The greatest threat to our American future doesn't come from other nations, it comes from within. We have become our own worst enemy.

And yet, Toyota makes cars with the most domestic content in them right here in the United States, and does it with the same unionized workforce you're blaming for all the ills of economy.

And I think that if you check, American workers last year were again the most productive in the world. But, when you have 1%-ers like the Steve Jobs shutting down his state-of-the-art manufacturing facilities in the United States so he could get a $500 iPad built for about $6 in labor in China as opposed to $22 here. Of course the 'lazy blue-collar worker' can't compete with the dormitory-dwelling, 72 hour-work-week-child-laborer who gets his healthcare from the government and a pittance from the 'free market' bosses in China.

Yet, you have lots of 1% ers damning Socialism in the light of day while they sneak off to get in bed with them in smoke-filled rooms where the sun doesn't shine when they want cheap stuff.

But do keep up the rhetoric-- there are a lot more 'lazy blue collar workers' who are going to vote in the upcoming election than there are 'capitalists' cozying up to China for cheap good made with stolen intellectual property. And they're getting pretty fed up with politicians who demonstrate every day that they have no clue what the middle class has been through. Sooner or later the party bosses in China are going to try to displace them and the 1%ers here who own them, and it'll be the 'lazy blue collar workers' who most likely will be the ones pulling the triggers for the chickenhawks if that happens. You might consider that and 'ratchet' it back a notch or four.


-Kerry O.