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| Topic: Why Do We Have Poor People? | |
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Dom Helder Camara, Archbishop of Recife and Olinda, Brazil, died on August 27, 1999, at 90 years of age. The twelfth of 13 children, son of a bookkeeper and a grade school teacher, he became one of the most loved and, at the same time, most opposed persons of Brazil in this century. With his death, his image gains new stature.
Dom Helder, as he was known, was internationally acknowledged as “a man of God and a defender of the poor.” In the 60’s and the 70’s, he was with Pele, the soccer player, the Brazilian most known throughout the world. That small frail man, to whom it applied the sobriquet of “the red bishop,” was a source of embarrassment for the military regime. Under the pretext of national and personal security, Dom Helder was for many years subjected to endless interrogations and threats. The personal protection he refused saying, “I don’t need you gentlemen, I have my own security guards. They are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.” As to his supposed threat to the national security, endlessly he would declare that he was no communist, no Marxist, and no subversive. “I feed the poor, I’m called a saint. I ask why the poor have no food, I’m called a communist.” From 1970 and for 13 years hence, in a miserly attitude which is habitual to dictators, the government banned him from any public spaking and forbade even the publication of his name in any media. Exiled in his own country. He raised his voice when many held their silence. So he was silenced. |
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it equally dependent on Literacy rate and Government awareness among Peoples.
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Is this an example of Humanity or what?
A hired assassin knocked on the door of the Church of Fronteras where Dom Helder Camara lived. The man was so undone at the sight of the diminutive bishop that he abandoned his mission saying, “I can’t kill you. You are one of the Lord’s own!” |
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we have the poor for many reasons
lack of hope, being probably number one poverty tends to recycle poverty and those who arent 'poor' dont tend to favor serious atempts to help the poor raise out of their situation some have nothing because they will not work some because they can not and most, I believe, because there is no real effort by the haves to train the have nots what it is to work 'smart', working 'smart' wouldnt make other people their money so they rather beat the drums of how much 'harder' people should work instead,,,a;; the while having their own knowledge about working smart so they dont have to work hard,,,and the networks to help them do it. |
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we have the poor for many reasons lack of hope, being probably number one poverty tends to recycle poverty and those who arent 'poor' dont tend to favor serious atempts to help the poor raise out of their situation some have nothing because they will not work some because they can not and most, I believe, because there is no real effort by the haves to train the have nots what it is to work 'smart', working 'smart' wouldnt make other people their money so they rather beat the drums of how much 'harder' people should work instead,,,a;; the while having their own knowledge about working smart so they dont have to work hard,,,and the networks to help them do it. I thought this thread was going to have an instant death but I should never lose faith in human beings.   Working Smart so they don't have to Work Hard.  |
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we have the poor for many reasons lack of hope, being probably number one poverty tends to recycle poverty and those who arent 'poor' dont tend to favor serious atempts to help the poor raise out of their situation some have nothing because they will not work some because they can not and most, I believe, because there is no real effort by the haves to train the have nots what it is to work 'smart', working 'smart' wouldnt make other people their money so they rather beat the drums of how much 'harder' people should work instead,,,a;; the while having their own knowledge about working smart so they dont have to work hard,,,and the networks to help them do it. Who has more influence on school age children? Parents and their immediate peer group or the so called "haves"? |
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Don't have a clue as to why there are po' folks in Ireland.
One reason here being, irresponsible parents raising generations of welfare recipients. Any ghetto or housing complex will be the example. That's one strong reason I agree with drug testing for receiving welfare handouts. The dumba$$ politicians won't push it cuz, the same law could eventually apply to them. |
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Don't have a clue as to why there are po' folks in Ireland. One reason here being, irresponsible parents raising generations of welfare recipients. Any ghetto or housing complex will be the example. That's one strong reason I agree with drug testing for receiving welfare handouts. The dumba$$ politicians won't push it cuz, the same law could eventually apply to them. Politicians are too busy lining their own pockets and salting their money in Swiss Secret Bank Accounts instead of doing the job we were conned into believing they were elected to do. |
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Don't have a clue as to why there are po' folks in Ireland. One reason here being, irresponsible parents raising generations of welfare recipients. Any ghetto or housing complex will be the example. That's one strong reason I agree with drug testing for receiving welfare handouts. The dumba$$ politicians won't push it cuz, the same law could eventually apply to them. Politicians are too busy lining their own pockets and salting their money in Swiss Secret Bank Accounts instead of doing the job we were conned into believing they were elected to do. Before you put Foot In Mouth you better inform yourself what a "Secret Swiss Bank-Account" is! 
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Don't have a clue as to why there are po' folks in Ireland. One reason here being, irresponsible parents raising generations of welfare recipients. Any ghetto or housing complex will be the example. That's one strong reason I agree with drug testing for receiving welfare handouts. The dumba$$ politicians won't push it cuz, the same law could eventually apply to them. Politicians are too busy lining their own pockets and salting their money in Swiss Secret Bank Accounts instead of doing the job we were conned into believing they were elected to do. Before you put Foot In Mouth you better inform yourself what a "Secret Swiss Bank-Account" is! Or just take the word secret out of it... Afternoon !!
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Don't have a clue as to why there are po' folks in Ireland. One reason here being, irresponsible parents raising generations of welfare recipients. Any ghetto or housing complex will be the example. That's one strong reason I agree with drug testing for receiving welfare handouts. The dumba$$ politicians won't push it cuz, the same law could eventually apply to them. Politicians are too busy lining their own pockets and salting their money in Swiss Secret Bank Accounts instead of doing the job we were conned into believing they were elected to do. Before you put Foot In Mouth you better inform yourself what a "Secret Swiss Bank-Account" is! Opaque Swiss Bank Accounts..... 
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Don't have a clue as to why there are po' folks in Ireland. One reason here being, irresponsible parents raising generations of welfare recipients. Any ghetto or housing complex will be the example. That's one strong reason I agree with drug testing for receiving welfare handouts. The dumba$$ politicians won't push it cuz, the same law could eventually apply to them. Politicians are too busy lining their own pockets and salting their money in Swiss Secret Bank Accounts instead of doing the job we were conned into believing they were elected to do. Before you put Foot In Mouth you better inform yourself what a "Secret Swiss Bank-Account" is! Or just take the word secret out of it... Afternoon !! Must be expecting a Banker to ply Policeman and trace money through a bunch of fronts! Bet Mugabe came to Switzerland numerous times,went to Credit Suisse,Paradeplatz,Zurich and said ,here credit my Account with these couple Million Dollars!   
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Don't have a clue as to why there are po' folks in Ireland. One reason here being, irresponsible parents raising generations of welfare recipients. Any ghetto or housing complex will be the example. That's one strong reason I agree with drug testing for receiving welfare handouts. The dumba$$ politicians won't push it cuz, the same law could eventually apply to them. Politicians are too busy lining their own pockets and salting their money in Swiss Secret Bank Accounts instead of doing the job we were conned into believing they were elected to do. Before you put Foot In Mouth you better inform yourself what a "Secret Swiss Bank-Account" is! Or just take the word secret out of it... Afternoon !! Must be expecting a Banker to ply Policeman and trace money through a bunch of fronts! Bet Mugabe came to Switzerland numerous times,went to Credit Suisse,Paradeplatz,Zurich and said ,here credit my Account with these couple Million Dollars! The new James Bond series..... Opening in theaters nationwide this summer.........
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Don't have a clue as to why there are po' folks in Ireland. One reason here being, irresponsible parents raising generations of welfare recipients. Any ghetto or housing complex will be the example. That's one strong reason I agree with drug testing for receiving welfare handouts. The dumba$$ politicians won't push it cuz, the same law could eventually apply to them. Politicians are too busy lining their own pockets and salting their money in Swiss Secret Bank Accounts instead of doing the job we were conned into believing they were elected to do. Before you put Foot In Mouth you better inform yourself what a "Secret Swiss Bank-Account" is! Or just take the word secret out of it... Afternoon !! Must be expecting a Banker to ply Policeman and trace money through a bunch of fronts! Bet Mugabe came to Switzerland numerous times,went to Credit Suisse,Paradeplatz,Zurich and said ,here credit my Account with these couple Million Dollars! The new James Bond series..... Opening in theaters nationwide this summer.........
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Edited by
Optomistic69
on
Thu 02/02/12 09:41 AM
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Any comments why we have poor people????????
Back on Topic The adrenalin rush is now over |
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we have the poor for many reasons lack of hope, being probably number one poverty tends to recycle poverty and those who arent 'poor' dont tend to favor serious atempts to help the poor raise out of their situation some have nothing because they will not work some because they can not and most, I believe, because there is no real effort by the haves to train the have nots what it is to work 'smart', working 'smart' wouldnt make other people their money so they rather beat the drums of how much 'harder' people should work instead,,,a;; the while having their own knowledge about working smart so they dont have to work hard,,,and the networks to help them do it. Who has more influence on school age children? Parents and their immediate peer group or the so called "haves"? Good Quality schools and Good Quality Teachers would make a big difference. |
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Thu 02/02/12 11:17 AM
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Anecdote incoming.
Until I was twelve I lived in an upper middle class home on a small creek and never had a care in the world about where the next meal will come from. No worries about drug dealers, or gangs, and bullies where few and weak. My parents divorced when I was 13 and I moved to a new neighborhood with my mother. We lived on the alimony and child support and my mom sold antiques to fill in the rest. She never made more than 12K a year or so and it was rough for a long time. I got to know a lot of the people in this neighborhood. Some were very industrious, started there own lawn, or construction businesses and did pretty good, some even made enough to move out of this neighborhood. Most people did not do so well. It seems it is human nature to only fight the battles you believe are winnable. Most people saw the struggle out of poverty as unwinnable, some were even right I am sure. It also seems to be human nature that when things are good, when you have a job that pays the bills and you have a little extra you want to be able to live life, not just save for a life to live latter. So most of the hard working people in this neighborhood, instead of saving, would spend there money on big screen tv's or a nice car, or on alcohol and drugs to celebrate life and there small successes. What I saw happen over and over again, was that a person would get ahead, would spend there money with no thoughts to the future, and when something happened, injury, lost job, car accident, then they were screwed and lost all the progress they had achieved. They moved back into that dilapidated trailer they had moved out of the year before, they started trying to hide from the hard reality by taking stronger drugs, drinking cheaper and stronger alcohol. I also saw a family who had 13 kids, Catholic, and the single mother was a smart lady but couldn't be everywhere at once. They were in gangs, but we looked out for each other, they did drugs, but we looked out for each other, we got into fights and were arrested, but we looked out for each other. She fought to bring food to the table, she dealt with poverty for years while keeping disciple in her family. She kept her kids off the hard drugs, she fought tooth and nail to keep them in school and out of jail. She had super human determination and will. Her older kids started to get good jobs, they saw their mother work so hard, they saw what the absolute bottom looked like and learned the kind of determination their mother had shown them for years and they beat the system. They got there GED's, they went to college on scholarships, some went into the military, a couple didn't have the strength of their mother, some went down while the other went up. Mom wouldn't let them fail completely, but she couldn't make them want it. THAT is what keeps people poor, they may learn what it takes, but just dont WANT it the way we did. Some families never had such a strong role model. To see the bottom, to see such strength, to see such despair overriding by sheer force of will, it teaches you that people can be their own single biggies hero, or enemy and that even the most heroic of each of us cannot save someone who doesn't want to be saved. You can help them, you can keep them from an early death for a time, but eventually if escape and despair are the only goals, then you can never get them over the hurdles, the hurdles are big, they take huge effort, they take a will to dig deep within. When I met this family, I thought they were all hoodlums, from my kushy perspective they were all degenerates . . . until I became one of them. Until I had to join the gang to avoid being beaten, and having my house broken into. To get the support of the neighborhood, you have to become a part of the neighborhood, and some people never leave becuase they never dream of anything but being the guy with the big flat screen, or the guy with the best weed, or the guy who everyone goes to to mediate a dispute against the rival gangs. When that mother helped give us something more to dream for, she planted a seed which grew in some of us, it took shape and allowed us to focus our efforts, we had the discipline, the neighborhood chews up and spits out those without discipline or work ethic, but we needed the dream. Too often dreams are crushed by reality, and no one is there to give the dreams water and courage. When I broke my back, and had no work, and no skills to get work that a person with a broke back can do, the oldest of that family saved me, we look out for our own, and he helped me understand what I could do, he showed me a way, and gave me a chance with a new company doing tech work for half the price a qualified person would do it. I used the discipline I learned, and I used the knowledge of what the bottom looked like to pour my heart into making an impression. Some people when they see the bottom will hide from it, he wouldn't let me hide from it, he made me look at it and envision a life like that, and I was able to get the dream alive again. No government can ever do this for you, it takes a person. It takes a connection. The tools are there, but the dream needs to be alive for you to pour your soul into it. I know one thing at least. If you have not lived it, you cannot understand it. |
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This all sounds like the regular mantra that people are poor because they're lazy. I don't think that's a fair call for the majority of poor people. I think not only does the "human nature" instinct for instant gratification play a part, but also lack of knowledge plays a part. How do you learn to stay on a budget, save your money, and think about the future? You only learn that kind of thing from your family or friends. And if none of them have ever had enough money to do that with, you have no idea about it.
In this country at least, I think health--both physical and mental--plays an important part. I lived out in the country in Maine, and it was very poor. A lot of people were unemployed because of health problems. In many cases they wanted to work and could have worked part time, but there just were no jobs available that fit their limitations. You might say they should move to the city, but if you're living in a trailer, where do you get the money to even rent an apartment? What about when your car breaks down--your old car that you do the bare minimum maintenance on because you've got no money for more? Lots of these people will have signs outside their houses, or tacked up at the corner store, that they'll do yard work or give massages or repair small engines. They're trying, but it's all nickel and dime stuff. I don't think there's any simple answer to why people are poor, but I do think it's a vicious circle once you get into it, especially if that's the only experience you've ever had. My question is, if we could pinpoint "why," would it help us solve the problem? |
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Anecdote incoming. Until I was twelve I lived in an upper middle class home on a small creek and never had a care in the world about where the next meal will come from. No worries about drug dealers, or gangs, and bullies where few and weak. My parents divorced when I was 13 and I moved to a new neighborhood with my mother. We lived on the alimony and child support and my mom sold antiques to fill in the rest. She never made more than 12K a year or so and it was rough for a long time. I got to know a lot of the people in this neighborhood. Some were very industrious, started there own lawn, or construction businesses and did pretty good, some even made enough to move out of this neighborhood. Most people did not do so well. It seems it is human nature to only fight the battles you believe are winnable. Most people saw the struggle out of poverty as unwinnable, some were even right I am sure. It also seems to be human nature that when things are good, when you have a job that pays the bills and you have a little extra you want to be able to live life, not just save for a life to live latter. So most of the hard working people in this neighborhood, instead of saving, would spend there money on big screen tv's or a nice car, or on alcohol and drugs to celebrate life and there small successes. What I saw happen over and over again, was that a person would get ahead, would spend there money with no thoughts to the future, and when something happened, injury, lost job, car accident, then they were screwed and lost all the progress they had achieved. They moved back into that dilapidated trailer they had moved out of the year before, they started trying to hide from the hard reality by taking stronger drugs, drinking cheaper and stronger alcohol. I also saw a family who had 13 kids, Catholic, and the single mother was a smart lady but couldn't be everywhere at once. They were in gangs, but we looked out for each other, they did drugs, but we looked out for each other, we got into fights and were arrested, but we looked out for each other. She fought to bring food to the table, she dealt with poverty for years while keeping disciple in her family. She kept her kids off the hard drugs, she fought tooth and nail to keep them in school and out of jail. She had super human determination and will. Her older kids started to get good jobs, they saw their mother work so hard, they saw what the absolute bottom looked like and learned the kind of determination their mother had shown them for years and they beat the system. They got there GED's, they went to college on scholarships, some went into the military, a couple didn't have the strength of their mother, some went down while the other went up. Mom wouldn't let them fail completely, but she couldn't make them want it. THAT is what keeps people poor, they may learn what it takes, but just dont WANT it the way we did. Some families never had such a strong role model. To see the bottom, to see such strength, to see such despair overriding by sheer force of will, it teaches you that people can be their own single biggies hero, or enemy and that even the most heroic of each of us cannot save someone who doesn't want to be saved. You can help them, you can keep them from an early death for a time, but eventually if escape and despair are the only goals, then you can never get them over the hurdles, the hurdles are big, they take huge effort, they take a will to dig deep within. When I met this family, I thought they were all hoodlums, from my kushy perspective they were all degenerates . . . until I became one of them. Until I had to join the gang to avoid being beaten, and having my house broken into. To get the support of the neighborhood, you have to become a part of the neighborhood, and some people never leave becuase they never dream of anything but being the guy with the big flat screen, or the guy with the best weed, or the guy who everyone goes to to mediate a dispute against the rival gangs. When that mother helped give us something more to dream for, she planted a seed which grew in some of us, it took shape and allowed us to focus our efforts, we had the discipline, the neighborhood chews up and spits out those without discipline or work ethic, but we needed the dream. Too often dreams are crushed by reality, and no one is there to give the dreams water and courage. When I broke my back, and had no work, and no skills to get work that a person with a broke back can do, the oldest of that family saved me, we look out for our own, and he helped me understand what I could do, he showed me a way, and gave me a chance with a new company doing tech work for half the price a qualified person would do it. I used the discipline I learned, and I used the knowledge of what the bottom looked like to pour my heart into making an impression. Some people when they see the bottom will hide from it, he wouldn't let me hide from it, he made me look at it and envision a life like that, and I was able to get the dream alive again. No government can ever do this for you, it takes a person. It takes a connection. The tools are there, but the dream needs to be alive for you to pour your soul into it. I know one thing at least. If you have not lived it, you cannot understand it. I can relate to all of that apart from the upper middle class home and broken back. And you are 100% right ... If you have not lived it, you cannot understand it. It is most unfortunate that people put labels on others and generalize. It is my experience that most people are decent and yes every country have their arseholes..every country. I disagree with you that Government cannot help these decent people if that is what you were implying...if you are talking about the arseholes I agree..no one can help those but it is also my opinion that they are in a minority. |
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I disagree with you that Government cannot help these decent people if that is what you were implying No, not that Government cannot help, but it cannot be the difference between success and failure. Without government assistance via foodstamps and welfare the mother I mentioned would not have been able to feed her kids. But others in the same situation never made it out even with the help. |
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