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| Topic: Goodbyes... | |
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Sorry, had to grab the phone so I didn't finish my thoughts. I think everyone responds differently for different reasons. How we deal with death has very much to do with how/who we are and the actual event. For myself I spend more time praising their lives, but nightmares can be nothing shy of terror. Even writing that sentence sends a chill up my spine. I'm at the point of talking it through, and I think this is a big step for a lot of us. Talking it through allows us to make it fact. Again for me, the people who passed without me being there had one kind of effect on me, the ones who I was involved with on the spot turned into a PTSD life changing process. You never know how you will deal with it and for those who can say "get over it" well, God bless them. I'm happy that they can move on without tapes. So basically I think passing is a beautiful natural event, but how it happens can be what I would say can shake you up or even give you guilt. Totally agree with you Michael and I'm glad someone finally brought up guilt.. Dealing with an untimely death or a violent death would naturally be more complicated, harder to come to terms with, and sadly for some impossible to accept.. 
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When I lose the people I love, I try to celebrate their life rather than morn their death. I believe, that, everyone I have loved and lost lives on through me and the happy memories we shared. The beauty of their life always over shadows their death for me. You have Wonderful way of looking at life and death 
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I lost everyone who was close to me; death now seems more like an abstract concept, a mere inevitability. Sorry to interrupt....but, this quote struck me. This is a quote from a man here who is someone I consider to be a friend here. Dude.......You gotta find the way to step beyond vivid past that you cannot change. No one else can give you a fresh start except you. Please consider it bro. Cause after all this time, I am still seeing perfectly good women throwing themselves at your door...and got your armor up. Your defenses are mighty...but, if you don't let anyone in...your defence may be too good. No arguments here -- you're absolutely right. I see it a little more clearly as time goes on. All I can say is I haven't run across anyone yet who I'd be comfortable letting in....not to say it won't happen, just that it hasn't happened yet. |
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I'm currently reading a book called, Sweet Temptation and I've gotten to the part where one of the heroines loses her mother to cancer... And this is where I'm tempted to stop reading because not only can I not stop crying, but I'm dreading the happily ever after of her finding life after death. Which brings me to this: 1. Five years ago, I lost my mother and then five more members of my immediat family during those five years. I've found that everytime I hear or even read about death, whether real or in the pages of a book, I take it very personally, as if it's happening to me all over again. Does that happen to anybody else? 2. Is there life after death, and how does one go about obtaining it? I'm not talking about merely existing, but living in every sense of the word. I'll leave it at that because I'd hate to start sounding like a whiner, but just out of curiousity, who has loved and lost and is now trying to live again? any reminder of a profound event - positive or negative - can make it seem like it is happening again, or like it just happened. That is normal. be patient with yourself when it happens. I let myself "re-grieve" a little less time each time it happens - then I just get on it with it and fold laundry  or whatever I am doing my mom also died a few years ago - I think of the after life as peace for her after much turmoil - I hope & have faith that it is true, but no, I do not think anyone can really know if this is real in an experiential sense - only through faith take care!
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I'm currently reading a book called, Sweet Temptation and I've gotten to the part where one of the heroines loses her mother to cancer... And this is where I'm tempted to stop reading because not only can I not stop crying, but I'm dreading the happily ever after of her finding life after death. Which brings me to this: 1. Five years ago, I lost my mother and then five more members of my immediat family during those five years. I've found that everytime I hear or even read about death, whether real or in the pages of a book, I take it very personally, as if it's happening to me all over again. Does that happen to anybody else? 2. Is there life after death, and how does one go about obtaining it? I'm not talking about merely existing, but living in every sense of the word. I'll leave it at that because I'd hate to start sounding like a whiner, but just out of curiousity, who has loved and lost and is now trying to live again? My condolences for your losses I lost 13 people in 10 months a few years ago - I was afraid to answer the phone so I understand what it feels like losing so many we love. My mom lost her battle with cancer about a year and a half ago. What I take from the experience was how much she taught me. I watched her agonize over a life half lived because she never wanted to upset anyone, she always sacrificed herself to keep peace, for the good of everyone else. She wept over everything and everyone she was going to miss, the things she hadn't done, the things she hadn't said, the things she wished she would have done differently. Her fear that her young grandchildren wouldn't remember her...she was just 67. The truth is that at her core she was a beautiful loving woman who spent her life taking care of everyone. The gift of being able to walk her to the edge was a beautiful reminder that we are given an amazing opportunity to be here. To explore this life and to live our way. And for a time, we got to share the journey together. I held her as she took her last breath and I stayed with her for a long time after...I felt her peace....finally. I feel gratitude for the inherent beauty of her, gratitude that she shared so much of her process with me, gratitude for the pain too because that also shapes me and who I become. The only for sure is that we will all die. We are in bodies that are not designed to live forever. And in some philosophies ... this is death ... and we get born into the other side. Perhaps the separation really is paper thin and the ones we love are not really far at all. Regardless, she lives in me ... always ... and perhaps too, through me, her dreams will have wings. All the best. |
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I love the concept of re-grieving. My grief these days comes with a lot of guilt... Guilt because I feel like I'm being petty and should grow up already!! But as someone already said, it's different for all of us. Death is a tricky thing. It takes away but it also leaves behind. There are alot of things that don't die with your loved one, one of them being memories. There's nothing that wipes the slate clean, removes them from your mind. Little ghosts living inside your head. Honestly, I don't think there's any letting go of memories, good or bad. And it is through those memories that we, the one who left and the one who stayed behind, both live. |
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Edited by
sweetestgirl11
on
Sun 11/20/11 03:43 PM
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I love the concept of re-grieving. My grief these days comes with a lot of guilt... Guilt because I feel like I'm being petty and should grow up already!! But as someone already said, it's different for all of us. Death is a tricky thing. It takes away but it also leaves behind. There are alot of things that don't die with your loved one, one of them being memories. There's nothing that wipes the slate clean, removes them from your mind. Little ghosts living inside your head. Honestly, I don't think there's any letting go of memories, good or bad. And it is through those memories that we, the one who left and the one who stayed behind, both live. memories can soothe as well as disturb. when something happens that stirs a memory I will take some time to re-grieve, yes. I sometimes lay on my bed for anywhere from a few minutes to an hour or more and just remember then I put it away - like a trinket in a case and remember that there are those who need me in the here & now I am good at this "re-grieving" as I started it early so few really learn to treasure joy, & the joy in shared moments life is not permanent and we might never realize the pain of another whom we might encounter day to day I hope with you all will tread lightly  |
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I'm currently reading a book called, Sweet Temptation and I've gotten to the part where one of the heroines loses her mother to cancer... And this is where I'm tempted to stop reading because not only can I not stop crying, but I'm dreading the happily ever after of her finding life after death. Which brings me to this: 1. Five years ago, I lost my mother and then five more members of my immediat family during those five years. I've found that everytime I hear or even read about death, whether real or in the pages of a book, I take it very personally, as if it's happening to me all over again. Does that happen to anybody else? 2. Is there life after death, and how does one go about obtaining it? I'm not talking about merely existing, but living in every sense of the word. I'll leave it at that because I'd hate to start sounding like a whiner, but just out of curiousity, who has loved and lost and is now trying to live again? I loved and lost 34 years ago. You never get over it but it becomes tolerable. That also gets me wondering, what does "getting over it" mean? To me it means not thinking about them all the time. |
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Sometimes you can suddenly have a knee-jerk reaction. A reaction out of the blue that you don't see coming. E.g, I'd never been to a funeral before, so didn't know what to expect. I just knew it would feel upsetting. I managed to keep myself quite composed, standing in the pew, until i saw the curtain surround the coffin, as the coffin was being dragged backwards into.......wherever it was going to next. That bit suddenly, out of nowhere, pulled so tight at my heartstrings, and my lips were quivering, and my tears were kinda overflowing. Surprised i had any tissue left, that day. lol. Have you heard a song by Nick Cave called 'Death is not the end'? It has some really inspiring, positive thoughts in that song. Better warn you first though, that the music to it is a tad emotional, but it's a very beautiful song. Death taught me to be nice to those around me, even if they annoy me sometimes. I always realise how much i'll miss them once they're gone. It takes time. Follow your heart.
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Sorry, had to grab the phone so I didn't finish my thoughts. but nightmares can be nothing shy of terror. ... the ones who I was involved with on the spot turned into a PTSD life changing process. You never know how you will deal with it and for those who can say "get over it" well, God bless them. I'm happy that they can move on without tapes. PTSD, Thank you, I have never thought of all this in those terms before. It makes a lot of sense. Rick's mom had power of atty. and as next of kin made the decisions. When she took him off life support I was shoved aside by his sister,sister's best friend, mom, mom's friend, step-dad, neice. Thank god the nurses were watching out for me, they pulled the head of the bed away from the wall and I was the one who got to sing in his ear as he passed away. I was the only one who got to kiss his cheek. Ok, I know I sound a tad bit bitter, yes I knew in my head it was time to let him go, but my stupid, selfish heart thought this was the dumbest thing ever. As for folks that tell me to "get over it" they are so lucky that I do not pop them in the nose. They are lucky I am a lady to the core. Its just that core is another story. I guess I am not at the part just yet where I can wish them well with out tapes. (MG what does that mean?) |
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I imagine losing immediate family while you are celebrating your birthday. That's what happened when my mom died.
I can remember the exact details: the time of the phone call, where I was, who I was with, how I responded, how others responded, etc. Talk about the feeling of guilt, as if I should have been doing something different at the time. It's an irrational response given the particulars of the situation. Still, I went through a marked period of grief that lasted longer than anyone around me probable could have noticed. Now consider that every birthday I celebrate from now until I die will also cause me to remember my mother. The two are forever linked, and that is something I can never change. Friends concerned about how I would handle my mom's death may have noticed mixed signals from me for a while, but even months later I was still dealing with it. In the end, I told people, "I won't really know if I'm alright until my next birthday." In other words, any suppression of grief might spontaneously burst free as I once again feel guilt over celebrating my birthday. Each year, I will have to revisit this question. It's not a question of "if" but rather "when". It will happen, and likely when I least expect it. The part that others may not understand is, I am okay with that. I expect it, and I am confident I can handle it. But it is also something I will handle privately rather than openly. As time goes on, it may become more difficult. When that happens, I will probably develop some sort of ritual to help ease the burden....to mitigate the irrational guilt that comes with it. Just a guess, but make no doubt, I will find a way to deal with it when the time comes. Death can affect us in so many ways, and we can't plan for all of them. Instead, all we can do is accept it. From there, we can take the next step....make our next move. This is what grief is really about, acceptance. This is what insensitive people mean by "get over it". Acceptance is what allows us to let go a little bit....to loosen our grip a bit, so we don't keep clinging to the past. If we dwell on the past too much, we cannot move forward, and that can affect our lives in a much more profound and negative way. One way I often counsel others to handle death is to find a way to turn the negative into a positive....to do something that they know the deceased would appreciate or approve of so that if there is an afterlife, we know we no longer have any reason to feel guilt. |
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Sorry, had to grab the phone so I didn't finish my thoughts. but nightmares can be nothing shy of terror. ... the ones who I was involved with on the spot turned into a PTSD life changing process. You never know how you will deal with it and for those who can say "get over it" well, God bless them. I'm happy that they can move on without tapes. PTSD, Thank you, I have never thought of all this in those terms before. It makes a lot of sense. Rick's mom had power of atty. and as next of kin made the decisions. When she took him off life support I was shoved aside by his sister,sister's best friend, mom, mom's friend, step-dad, neice. Thank god the nurses were watching out for me, they pulled the head of the bed away from the wall and I was the one who got to sing in his ear as he passed away. I was the only one who got to kiss his cheek. Ok, I know I sound a tad bit bitter, yes I knew in my head it was time to let him go, but my stupid, selfish heart thought this was the dumbest thing ever. As for folks that tell me to "get over it" they are so lucky that I do not pop them in the nose. They are lucky I am a lady to the core. Its just that core is another story. I guess I am not at the part just yet where I can wish them well with out tapes. (MG what does that mean?) Tapes: memories that keep playing themselves out. They happen a lot with tragic deaths. It's good to learn how to play the good tapes (good memories), and in time they start to take over the scary ones. Therapy is a great thing if anyone needs it. I learned so much from taking the courses I did while going through my thing. And as some have said earlier, laughter really is the best cure. |
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Now that I understand what MG meant by "tapes", the therapy he is describing is much like what I meant by creating a ritual....the development of a coping mechanism.
In the end, it's a matter of balance between what you are comfortable with while being effective. If focusing on the good memories does that, then by all means do it. If regularly laying flowers on the grave works, so be it. Some cultures build small shrines where offerings of food, money, or incense are left to aid or bring pleasure to the spirit of the deceased. These are all just different means of coping with loss while ensuring their memory survives. |
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Now that I understand what MG meant by "tapes", the therapy he is describing is much like what I meant by creating a ritual....the development of a coping mechanism. In the end, it's a matter of balance between what you are comfortable with while being effective. If focusing on the good memories does that, then by all means do it. If regularly laying flowers on the grave works, so be it. Some cultures build small shrines where offerings of food, money, or incense are left to aid or bring pleasure to the spirit of the deceased. These are all just different means of coping with loss while ensuring their memory survives. First, thank you MG for the explanation of "tapes" and your kind support. ( Thanks to all who wrote in this forum and emails, I did not start it but I sure got a lot out of it.) Laughter is scarce these days. With school, work, home worries, I just am happy I get to sleep at night. I lost my laughing buddy. Did I tell you about the first snow fall after he moved in with me? No? Ok, I came home from school and he had dinner ready, after eating, he said, "Guess what I did today?", and after a list of...no...no...no...everytime I responded, he told me that he went out and knocked the ice off the gutters and a huge roof full of snow fell on his head. I was good, only giggled a little. Then he got the bright idea to go out and make snow angels, but we could not bundle up, we had to go out in shorts and t-shirts. I chickened out on the shorts idea, but we fell back in the snow and made a wonderful snow angels. We both laughed like kindergardeners. Sigh, I miss that. Any how, actionlynx, I have particapated in the rituals of going to the grave, I got his boys to sign a hockey puck and sealed it in a case and put it at his grave. Rick did this for his dads grave. I made a jar with a note that all can read, and paper and pencil in the jar for anyone to leave a note to Rick or vent their feelings or even just talk about their day, at the grave site. (kind of like a mail box to heaven) I just wish there was more I could do. |
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Now that I understand what MG meant by "tapes", the therapy he is describing is much like what I meant by creating a ritual....the development of a coping mechanism. In the end, it's a matter of balance between what you are comfortable with while being effective. If focusing on the good memories does that, then by all means do it. If regularly laying flowers on the grave works, so be it. Some cultures build small shrines where offerings of food, money, or incense are left to aid or bring pleasure to the spirit of the deceased. These are all just different means of coping with loss while ensuring their memory survives. First, thank you MG for the explanation of "tapes" and your kind support. ( Thanks to all who wrote in this forum and emails, I did not start it but I sure got a lot out of it.) Laughter is scarce these days. With school, work, home worries, I just am happy I get to sleep at night. I lost my laughing buddy. Did I tell you about the first snow fall after he moved in with me? No? Ok, I came home from school and he had dinner ready, after eating, he said, "Guess what I did today?", and after a list of...no...no...no...everytime I responded, he told me that he went out and knocked the ice off the gutters and a huge roof full of snow fell on his head. I was good, only giggled a little. Then he got the bright idea to go out and make snow angels, but we could not bundle up, we had to go out in shorts and t-shirts. I chickened out on the shorts idea, but we fell back in the snow and made a wonderful snow angels. We both laughed like kindergardeners. Sigh, I miss that. Any how, actionlynx, I have particapated in the rituals of going to the grave, I got his boys to sign a hockey puck and sealed it in a case and put it at his grave. Rick did this for his dads grave. I made a jar with a note that all can read, and paper and pencil in the jar for anyone to leave a note to Rick or vent their feelings or even just talk about their day, at the grave site. (kind of like a mail box to heaven) I just wish there was more I could do. how warm these words are, thanks for sharing |
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AfriQueen22 - what a relevant topic this turned out to be. Thank you for starting it and please accept my deepest sympathy.
To the many others here that have experienced tragic loss, or natural ones, my heart goes out to you. That sounds so trite but truly, I read every word over and over and my heart hurts for all of your losses. I wish I could hug each and every one of you and make your hurt go away. But I can't, ... if only it were that easy. I don't deal with loss well, never have. I tend to go into denial and keep on moving, not allowing the grieving process to actually happen. I lost my Mother suddenly 5 years ago, my 90 year old Father just three weeks ago after an extended illness. At the time my Mother passed I thought how much easier it may have been to have had some 'warning', the suddenness of one moment here and the next gone was overwhelming. However, after spending the last year living with my Father as his main caregiver, having the 'warning' did not make his passing necessarily any easier. Every circumstance is different, every relationship we have with our loved ones different and we all grieve differently. Profound, huh?  However, after reading the experiences on this post , it gives me hope. So many people experience loss, on such a very deep level. Yes, death is a natural part of life - but it is a loss no matter the age or circumstance. It is inevitable. Is there life after death? Yes - we must continue to live. Is it easy - not always. You can see from the responses here that there are a myriad of approaches and experiences. There is a lot of heartfelt comments in this post, that I needed to see and digest. I truly believe that being able to share your feelings and experiences is part of any healing process. To know that I am not alone, the only one that ever experienced this - even though our circumstances are so varied, does help me realize that there is hope. I truly believe there are various stages of grief, there is no timeline for each or any of them and that each stage is not one time only. There are no ‘right or wrong’ answers, just other’s experiences to possibly learn from as we go through our own process and find our own way. A book I read years ago “When Bad Things Happen To Good People” may be enlightening. Did it have one solid answer? No. But I found it helpful. Today I feel like the most important thing I can do is be the best person I can be, to take everything my parents taught me and share that - with the family, friends, strangers, whomever. To live my life well and make a difference to someone in need, as my parents did - that is a way to honor them. Tomorrow I may be a basket case again and not want to get out of bed. My best advice - keep talking, keep reaching out and may you find your way
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I feel that everyone who I have loved in this life,,who have past this life..THEY live ON within me,,BUT,,a part of me died with them.
Knowing them and knowing I'll never again in THIS LIFE hear their voice,,see their face,,hold them or hug them ever again here.. THATS a very hard thought to know is REAL.. And then that pain of their loss,,effects me in the thousand different reminders I hear, think, see, or touch now on going. Everyday,hour or minute,,I can THINK through whatever small trivial THING made me NOTICE THAT,,made me remember THEM.. So we carry them with us in mind,,,yet feel we lost a body part of US,,when they left.. No one knows what life after death truly is or what takes place,,because we can't come-back and speak of our souls jouney? SO we have our own thoughts of that and we live here,,,on,,waiting yet LIVING for our day to come and we find that truth out? WE can't DIE WITH THEM. WE can't FORGET THEM. So we each in our own mind find our WAYS to sustain OUR LIVING THROUGH THEIR PASSIN. Its a very hard place to be left at and IN,,yet we were made to KNOW,,we go forth...and memories were built into our minds as a way to KNOW they live forever inside US.. As for my piece and my thoughts of them,,I can see them when they show me a reason to remember,,and like my Prayers said through my days,,I can think and speak to them in my mind,,as to reasure both them and me,,THEY are still with my love I have for them in death,,as in living.. thats my take....good luck finding your own ways to believe and know death.... |
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AfriQueen22 - what a relevant topic this turned out to be. Thank you for starting it and please accept my deepest sympathy. To the many others here that have experienced tragic loss, or natural ones, my heart goes out to you. That sounds so trite but truly, I read every word over and over and my heart hurts for all of your losses. I wish I could hug each and every one of you and make your hurt go away. But I can't, ... if only it were that easy. I don't deal with loss well, never have. I tend to go into denial and keep on moving, not allowing the grieving process to actually happen. I lost my Mother suddenly 5 years ago, my 90 year old Father just three weeks ago after an extended illness. At the time my Mother passed I thought how much easier it may have been to have had some 'warning', the suddenness of one moment here and the next gone was overwhelming. However, after spending the last year living with my Father as his main caregiver, having the 'warning' did not make his passing necessarily any easier. Every circumstance is different, every relationship we have with our loved ones different and we all grieve differently. Profound, huh? However, after reading the experiences on this post , it gives me hope. So many people experience loss, on such a very deep level. Yes, death is a natural part of life - but it is a loss no matter the age or circumstance. It is inevitable. Is there life after death? Yes - we must continue to live. Is it easy - not always. You can see from the responses here that there are a myriad of approaches and experiences. There is a lot of heartfelt comments in this post, that I needed to see and digest. I truly believe that being able to share your feelings and experiences is part of any healing process. To know that I am not alone, the only one that ever experienced this - even though our circumstances are so varied, does help me realize that there is hope. I truly believe there are various stages of grief, there is no timeline for each or any of them and that each stage is not one time only. There are no ‘right or wrong’ answers, just other’s experiences to possibly learn from as we go through our own process and find our own way. A book I read years ago “When Bad Things Happen To Good People” may be enlightening. Did it have one solid answer? No. But I found it helpful. Today I feel like the most important thing I can do is be the best person I can be, to take everything my parents taught me and share that - with the family, friends, strangers, whomever. To live my life well and make a difference to someone in need, as my parents did - that is a way to honor them. Tomorrow I may be a basket case again and not want to get out of bed. My best advice - keep talking, keep reaching out and may you find your way Firstly, please accept my condoleces for your losses. Somehow, the fact that death is inevitable doesn't make it any easier to deal with. I nursed my mother and my grandmother for a long time before they passed, I saw the pain they were in but you always have hope that they'll recover. It's really nothing you get used to. When I posted this topic I was feeling below low, and the response from everyone and the experiences they've shared is like that glimmer of sunshine on a cloudy day. You're right, we loved our loved ones differently and so we will grievethem in different ways. Some choose to not let people close again, that in itself is a form of not living; some go into deep denial, choosing to go on everyday like it never happened; and others are able to look back at all the good memories and celebrate the lives of their lost loved ones, I'm not that strong yet. Each of us have to deal with different emotions as well, earlier someone mentioned guilt and I can relate to that. I agree that it helps to reach out. I remember I used to get so irritated when some random lady or man I was sitting next to on the bus would start telling me their problem, like WHO ARE YOU???? Until I realised that they are just reaching out, or in some cases, just need someone to listen. I doubt I gave them the best advice but I listened, and everybody needs a sympathetic ear sometimes. I'm not one to talk to strangers but I write, or lie down and wait for the feeling to pass. Everyone has their own winning formula. But whatever your method of coping may be, I do hope it brings you one step (no matter how small that step is) closer to the light.
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WE can't DIE WITH THEM. WE can't FORGET THEM. So we each in our own mind find our WAYS to sustain OUR LIVING THROUGH THEIR PASSIN. Its a very hard place to be left at and IN,,yet we were made to KNOW,,we go forth...and memories were built into our minds as a way to KNOW they live forever inside US. My sentiments exactly. Thank you so much for sharing.
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AfriQueen22 - what a relevant topic this turned out to be. Thank you for starting it and please accept my deepest sympathy. To the many others here that have experienced tragic loss, or natural ones, my heart goes out to you. That sounds so trite but truly, I read every word over and over and my heart hurts for all of your losses. I wish I could hug each and every one of you and make your hurt go away. But I can't, ... if only it were that easy. I don't deal with loss well, never have. I tend to go into denial and keep on moving, not allowing the grieving process to actually happen. I lost my Mother suddenly 5 years ago, my 90 year old Father just three weeks ago after an extended illness. At the time my Mother passed I thought how much easier it may have been to have had some 'warning', the suddenness of one moment here and the next gone was overwhelming. However, after spending the last year living with my Father as his main caregiver, having the 'warning' did not make his passing necessarily any easier. Every circumstance is different, every relationship we have with our loved ones different and we all grieve differently. Profound, huh? However, after reading the experiences on this post , it gives me hope. So many people experience loss, on such a very deep level. Yes, death is a natural part of life - but it is a loss no matter the age or circumstance. It is inevitable. Is there life after death? Yes - we must continue to live. Is it easy - not always. You can see from the responses here that there are a myriad of approaches and experiences. There is a lot of heartfelt comments in this post, that I needed to see and digest. I truly believe that being able to share your feelings and experiences is part of any healing process. To know that I am not alone, the only one that ever experienced this - even though our circumstances are so varied, does help me realize that there is hope. I truly believe there are various stages of grief, there is no timeline for each or any of them and that each stage is not one time only. There are no ‘right or wrong’ answers, just other’s experiences to possibly learn from as we go through our own process and find our own way. A book I read years ago “When Bad Things Happen To Good People” may be enlightening. Did it have one solid answer? No. But I found it helpful. Today I feel like the most important thing I can do is be the best person I can be, to take everything my parents taught me and share that - with the family, friends, strangers, whomever. To live my life well and make a difference to someone in need, as my parents did - that is a way to honor them. Tomorrow I may be a basket case again and not want to get out of bed. My best advice - keep talking, keep reaching out and may you find your way tears! hug |
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