Topic: Is there a "before" the big bang?
no photo
Wed 11/16/11 12:29 PM
From wikipedia:

The myth of the Flat Earth is the modern misconception that the prevailing cosmological view during the Middle Ages saw the Earth as flat, instead of spherical.[1]

This idea seems to have been widespread during the first half of the 20th century, so that the Members of the Historical Association in 1945 stated that:

"The idea that educated men at the time of Columbus believed that the earth was flat, and that this belief was one of the obstacles to be overcome by Columbus before he could get his project sanctioned, remains one of the hardiest errors in teaching." [2]

During the early Middle Ages, virtually all scholars maintained the spherical viewpoint first expressed by the Ancient Greeks. By the 14th century, belief in a flat earth among the educated was essentially dead.

However, among Medieval artists, depictions of a flat earth remained common.[citation needed] The exterior of the famous triptych The Garden of Earthly Delights by Hieronymus Bosch is a Renaissance example in which a disc-shaped earth is shown floating inside a transparent sphere.[3]

According to Stephen Jay Gould, "there never was a period of 'flat earth darkness' among scholars (regardless of how the public at large may have conceptualized our planet both then and now). Greek knowledge of sphericity never faded, and all major medieval scholars accepted the earth's roundness as an established fact of cosmology."[4]

Historians of science David Lindberg and Ronald Numbers point out that "there was scarcely a Christian scholar of the Middle Ages who did not acknowledge [Earth's] sphericity and even know its approximate circumference".[5]

Historian Jeffrey Burton Russell says the flat earth error flourished most between 1870 and 1920, and had to do with the ideological setting created by struggles over evolution.[6] Russell claims "with extraordinary [sic] few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat," and credits histories by John William Draper, Andrew Dickson White, and Washington Irving for popularizing the flat-earth myth.[7]

jrbogie's photo
Thu 11/17/11 12:30 PM

What are you doing now, defending the current status quo that the Big Bang is fact?



who has ever maintained that the big bang is fact?

mightymoe's photo
Thu 11/17/11 02:21 PM


What are you doing now, defending the current status quo that the Big Bang is fact?



who has ever maintained that the big bang is fact?

she lives in a fantasy world... never have i ever posted anything even close to saying i believed in the big bang... and she knows this

no photo
Thu 11/17/11 02:45 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Thu 11/17/11 02:46 PM



What are you doing now, defending the current status quo that the Big Bang is fact?



who has ever maintained that the big bang is fact?

she lives in a fantasy world... never have i ever posted anything even close to saying i believed in the big bang... and she knows this


I beg your pardon.

I do not live in a fantasy world.

You seemed to be defending the Big Bang theory as apposed to the Multiverse (String theory.)

I am well aware that there are no proven facts to prove either theory.

Using one's imagination to postulate something is not "living in a fantasy world."




mightymoe's photo
Thu 11/17/11 05:16 PM




What are you doing now, defending the current status quo that the Big Bang is fact?



who has ever maintained that the big bang is fact?

she lives in a fantasy world... never have i ever posted anything even close to saying i believed in the big bang... and she knows this


I beg your pardon.

I do not live in a fantasy world.

You seemed to be defending the Big Bang theory as apposed to the Multiverse (String theory.)

I am well aware that there are no proven facts to prove either theory.

Using one's imagination to postulate something is not "living in a fantasy world."





well, then don't be acting stupid then... when have i ever said anything close to saying i believe the big bang theory? all i said was i don't agree with a mutiverse theory either, and you start saying that? there is no way they can even come close to any support for a multiverse theory, since they can only see so far into the universe...you can believe whatever you want, but do not put words into my mouth...

no photo
Thu 11/17/11 05:28 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Thu 11/17/11 05:28 PM
Well I guess that's your opinion. You are entitled to it.

I did not put any words in your mouth either.


mightymoe's photo
Thu 11/17/11 05:33 PM

Well I guess that's your opinion. You are entitled to it.

I did not put any words in your mouth either.




my apologies, but i have only stated on here about 463 times i don't believe in it, i think it is an outdated theory...actually, a multiverse would make more sense, but as of right now, there is no way to begin to prove it either...

no photo
Thu 11/17/11 10:11 PM

If you haven't yet, read this...and the many other

links on the site...:
flowerforyou




http://www.reasons.org/temporality-beyond-time-what-creation-reveals


:heart::heart::heart:




smilesatyou's photo
Wed 11/23/11 07:17 AM
That link doesnt answer any of my questions.

What it does show is that the author is following scientific discoveries and trying to explain how the bible already described these discoveries. However there are a couple of problems exposed through reading that link. One is that when the bible tries to offer information which is yet to be confirmed by observation and analysis the bible/church is left looking stupid when reality proves otherwise. If you had ansered my question of when the earth was created you may have given the biblical answer of about 5000 years ago which has been completely disproved by simple observation and analysis/testing. Over time more and more lies and falsehoods are exposed from the bible, this doesnt mean god is a liar or doesnt exist, but more so that man lies for his own benefit and the bible has been embelished by greedy men.
The other problem with the link you gave is that if the bible can explain things like the big bang or multi dimensions or any other field of scientific research then why hasnt the leading thinkers of our time taken the lead from the bible regarding exploring physics or the workings of our universe? The answer lies in the same way we read nostradamus predictions. Once an event happens, we look back to texts for explanation and we look in many different ways untill we see what we want to see, never do we predict the future from these texts unless it is to predict the possible evils man is capable of, nothing specific, just possibilities. I believe the bible can teach us nothing specific about the phyisics of the universe and it is science that leads the way regarding the persuit of knowledge, not religion.

I repeat that people have to stop following blindly and open their minds to be free of a brainwashing cycle that keeps them mentally imprisioned.

I wish you well. :)

jrbogie's photo
Wed 11/23/11 07:26 AM




What are you doing now, defending the current status quo that the Big Bang is fact?



who has ever maintained that the big bang is fact?

she lives in a fantasy world... never have i ever posted anything even close to saying i believed in the big bang... and she knows this


I beg your pardon.

I do not live in a fantasy world.

You seemed to be defending the Big Bang theory as apposed to the Multiverse (String theory.)

I am well aware that there are no proven facts to prove either theory.

Using one's imagination to postulate something is not "living in a fantasy world."






jeannie, it was you who brought up the status quo thinking that the big bang is face. look at your first statement in this very quote. i simply asked you to validate your statement by asking for examples of who in the status quo of which you speak has claimed the big bang to be fact. nobody's saying you believe anything to be fact but i don't see any theoretical physicist, of which i think the "status quo" is made up of, believes the big bang to be fact. either you can or you cannot name a few names in this "status quo" that accept any theory as fact.

jrbogie's photo
Wed 11/23/11 07:39 AM


If you haven't yet, read this...and the many other

links on the site...:
flowerforyou




http://www.reasons.org/temporality-beyond-time-what-creation-reveals


:heart::heart::heart:






morning, i'm not about to spend time reading links regarding creation. i've read all i need on the topic to have discredited creation as not the place likely to answer the questions i'm interested in as regards the universe. i understand that you are highly informed on the writings of creation and you must have devoted and still devote a great amount of time staying abreast of the subject that you accept so strongly. as such you don't have the time or desire to read about the recent events at the hedron collider and discoveries of wmap which are contributing greatly to the data that explains the big bang. i've read the bible, cover to cover in past times so i cannot be accused of ignoring and simply tossing creation outright. as such i think it fair of me to pass on your links to creation as you've obviously passed on science.

no photo
Wed 11/23/11 05:05 PM





What are you doing now, defending the current status quo that the Big Bang is fact?



who has ever maintained that the big bang is fact?

she lives in a fantasy world... never have i ever posted anything even close to saying i believed in the big bang... and she knows this


I beg your pardon.

I do not live in a fantasy world.

You seemed to be defending the Big Bang theory as apposed to the Multiverse (String theory.)

I am well aware that there are no proven facts to prove either theory.

Using one's imagination to postulate something is not "living in a fantasy world."






jeannie, it was you who brought up the status quo thinking that the big bang is face. look at your first statement in this very quote. i simply asked you to validate your statement by asking for examples of who in the status quo of which you speak has claimed the big bang to be fact. nobody's saying you believe anything to be fact but i don't see any theoretical physicist, of which i think the "status quo" is made up of, believes the big bang to be fact. either you can or you cannot name a few names in this "status quo" that accept any theory as fact.


Many people believe the Big Bang is fact. I am not saying it has been proven nor am I saying that I believe it.

Documentaries, How the universe works, etc.... all give credit to the big bang.

http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~yukimoon/BigBang/BigBang.htm

Why Do We Think the Big Bang Happened?

Three main observational results over the past century led astronomers to become certain that the universe began with the big bang. First, they found out that the universe is expanding—meaning that the separations between galaxies are becoming larger and larger. This led them to deduce that everything used to be extremely close together before some kind of explosion. Second, the big bang perfectly explains the abundance of helium and other nuclei like deuterium (an isotope of hydrogen) in the universe. A hot, dense, and expanding environment at the beginning could produce these nuclei in the abundance we observe today. Third, astronomers could actually observe the cosmic background radiation—the afterglow of the explosion—from every direction in the universe. This last evidence so conclusively confirmed the theory of the universe's beginning that Stephen Hawking said, "It is the discovery of the century, if not of all time."

jrbogie's photo
Thu 11/24/11 05:15 AM
i suppose it's how you define the status quo. as regards the big bang the status quo to you seems to mean "many people". that would put the big bang on par with creation as many people are christian, a religious dogma that cannot be tested. to me status quo as regards the big bang are "many theoretical physicists" who have tested the theory.

no photo
Thu 11/24/11 10:12 AM

i suppose it's how you define the status quo. as regards the big bang the status quo to you seems to mean "many people". that would put the big bang on par with creation as many people are christian, a religious dogma that cannot be tested. to me status quo as regards the big bang are "many theoretical physicists" who have tested the theory.


Sounds right to me.

Status quo.


Seakolony's photo
Thu 11/24/11 05:43 PM
Perhaps we are a figment of our own imaginations, and trapped into theories due to our own self-importance.

jrbogie's photo
Fri 11/25/11 03:18 AM
perhaps. interesting theory.

no photo
Fri 11/25/11 10:07 AM

Perhaps we are a figment of our own imaginations, and trapped into theories due to our own self-importance.


We are trapped inside of the universal mind. Indeed.

no photo
Fri 12/02/11 11:59 AM
Big bang lets see according to religion that (a) god created the earth sun etc but yet there is no proof that a god god created anything or it self in that matter so religion is nothing more than a book that tells storys.

theory's of the big bang that explains the early development of the Universe.

According to the Big Bang theory, the Universe was once in an extremely hot and dense state which expanded rapidly. This rapid expansion caused the young Universe to cool and resulted in its present continuously expanding state. According to the most recent measurements and observations, this original state existed approximately 13.7 billion years ago,

Evidence for the Theory,


First of all, we are reasonably certain that the universe had a beginning.

Second, galaxies appear to be moving away from us at speeds proportional to their distance.


My personal fav (Big Bang Theory - What About (A) God?)

discussion of the Big Bang theory would be incomplete without asking the question, what about (A) God? This is because cosmogony (the study of the origin of the universe) is an area where science and theology meet.

Creation was a supernatural event. That is, it took place outside of the natural realm. This fact begs the question: is there anything else which exists outside of the natural realm? Specifically, is there a master Architect out there? We know that this universe had a beginning. Was (A) God the "First Cause"?Question today is Does (A) God Exist? Is there any proof? Is there a heaven and a hell or was it created in the human mind? And then acted out to make others believe in it think about it and study it you be amazed.






mightymoe's photo
Fri 12/02/11 12:40 PM

Big bang lets see according to religion that (a) god created the earth sun etc but yet there is no proof that a god god created anything or it self in that matter so religion is nothing more than a book that tells storys.

theory's of the big bang that explains the early development of the Universe.

According to the Big Bang theory, the Universe was once in an extremely hot and dense state which expanded rapidly. This rapid expansion caused the young Universe to cool and resulted in its present continuously expanding state. According to the most recent measurements and observations, this original state existed approximately 13.7 billion years ago,

Evidence for the Theory,


First of all, we are reasonably certain that the universe had a beginning.

Second, galaxies appear to be moving away from us at speeds proportional to their distance.


My personal fav (Big Bang Theory - What About (A) God?)

discussion of the Big Bang theory would be incomplete without asking the question, what about (A) God? This is because cosmogony (the study of the origin of the universe) is an area where science and theology meet.

Creation was a supernatural event. That is, it took place outside of the natural realm. This fact begs the question: is there anything else which exists outside of the natural realm? Specifically, is there a master Architect out there? We know that this universe had a beginning. Was (A) God the "First Cause"?Question today is Does (A) God Exist? Is there any proof? Is there a heaven and a hell or was it created in the human mind? And then acted out to make others believe in it think about it and study it you be amazed.









first, what makes anyone think that there has to be a beginning? even if there was, it could be trillions of years old and no way to tell how it started

second, that is just not true. there are billions of galaxies, and they are moving every direction possible, and also colliding with each other.... in the next 100 million years, our own galaxy will collide with Andromeda galaxy, which is about the same size as ours. and they also have seen the after effects of galaxies colliding and galaxies that are colliding now...

and why does god have anything to do with this? it would be more complete to leave imaginary beings out of the equation, it does nothing but confuse people.

no photo
Fri 12/02/11 03:25 PM
Many people believe the Big Bang is fact.


Theories explains facts. The BB is a cosmological model. It explains many of the FACTS we have observed.

I would urge you to use the appropriate language.

So one might say, do you accept the BB as an accurate model? Or
Do you accept the BB as an accurate theory?

Or do you think the BB explains the facts?

Or do you think there are inconsistencies with how the BB model explains the facts?

A scientist would never ask . . . do you think the BB is fact?

Personally I think the BB + inflation explain the facts better than anything else . . . so for now I accept it as an accurate model.