I have a few on here that I admire for their intellect and would give them credit for being able to have a conversation about this subject if they would even attempt it. Metalwing as you can tell, art, JR, creative, abra, Lady, Art, massagetrade, and a few more. Look for their posts and expect interesting thought inspiring posts.

I would agree that if there were no jobs, there would be no problem with them coming here. They cannot get welfare and foodstamps, even when they are legally here they cannot get those benefits it is Federal law. I worked for the welfare department so I do know that for sure. California pays illegals out of their state funds from what I understand but it is not federal money. So if the jobs were not available they would not be here at all.

I also agree that the majority of the charges filed against the illegals charged here would be smuggling, dealing, transporting, etc.... illegal drugs. The drug trade is lucrative for anybody from any country coming here. We do have a drug problem in this country that is for sure.

Metalwing,

You have misunderstood me, as I never said I believed 27% included infants. I used the pooped pants equation as an example of why you must remove Baby Boomers and older citizens from that number.

I’m sorry if I did not make it clearly enough.

If you don’t believe that the huge population of retiring boomers over the last 8 years would decrease the percentage of college grads by much than you must think that as high a percentage of them went to college as do today. I disagree.

I got my numbers over a course of years studying economic impact and the patterns of free market societies. I’m not about to go back through 10 years of study notes to show you resources for what are commonly written and widely accepted figures.

It does not take exact figures, but basic reasoning skills to figure that our current workforce is more highly educated now than ever before in the US. Less educated people are leaving the workforce and a higher level of educated people are entering it…period.
If you don’t believe that, then you’ve not spent much time studying the subject and I can’t help that. Studying a couple of charts does not a free market economist make.

I agree 100% that a bad solution does not invalidate the problem. But why put up with a bad solution when there is bound to be a better one out there? I find it hard to believe that we cannot come up with a solution other than one that will harmfully impact our economy...especially at a time when it is already down.

The economy will certainly adjust…in the form of $5 tomatoes (hopefully an exaggeration), as the rules of immigration in no way lessens the unavoidable rule that supply and demand dictate the price of goods.

Driving the illegal immigrants from Alabama was supposed to open up jobs to the 10% unemployed there. My biggest disappointment is that months later, there is still a 10% unemployment rate, and field after field of dead tomatoes on the vine. I’m not saying they should not leave…just that there has to be a better way than one that is guaranteed to drive produce sky high.

I'm also angry with the Alabama unemployed, as I had sincere hopes that they would take up those jobs and bring in the crops...but they did not...they stayed on unemployment instead.

My first comment to you was "good post". That is still true.

I went to the census data and it did not appear to agree with your numbers which is why I asked. I took the data for the different age groups and ran the math through my head. Not much happened but it appeared the percentage differences were small.

I guess what I was really asking is "How do your estimates compare with the census data?" I wasn't asking you to research lots of old personal data. With a short statement it is hard to describe math with any accuracy. I could have recalculated the weighted averages for the total workforce age group but I was just too lazy.

I am not an economist. I see the numbers of over a million uneducated workers coming to this country every year and apparently finding jobs. I see jobsites where the old carpenters, plumbers, masons, electricians, etc., which used to be relatively high paying jobs, are rapidly being replaced by illegal labor. I see statistics where many American Citizens who used to do those same jobs are now out of work. I see whole industries, like roofing, being replaced by mostly illegal workers.

There are no accurate numbers to account for the illegal labor pool increase in the US.

from the 2010 census

Age:
25 to 34 years old. . . . . . . . . .
41,085
11.6 did not complete high school
27.2 high school
18.9 some college
9.5 associate degree
24.0 college degree
8.9 post grad
35 to 44 years old. . . . . . . . . .
40,447
11.7
28.6
16.3
10.3
21.9 college degree
11.2
45 to 54 years old. . . . . . . . . .
44,387
10.4
32.8
16.7
10.6
19.0 college degree
10.4
55 to 64 years old. . . . . . . . . .
35,395
10.4
31.3
17.3
9.2
18.6 college degree
13.1
65 to 74 years old. . . . . . . . . .
20,956
17.0
35.4
15.7
6.6
14.1 college degree
11.1
75 years old or over. . . . . . . . .
17,657
24.6
37.6
14.0
4.6
11.9 college degree
7.3

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0231.pdf

We are now importing a lot of produce and fruit from Peru and New Zealand. I don't think $5 tomatoes are much to worry about. Hang a pot by your kitchen window.

Over half the federal crimes being committed by illegals is something to worry about. Either the number of crimes per illegal is huge or the number of illegals is way underestimated.

The main problem with finding a solution is the clowns in congress who would need to implement it. Both parties are afraid of Hispanics as a voting block. The Democrats see Hispanics as a huge potential voter base. The Republicans see Hispanics as a cheap workforce. Industries, who make tons of cash on illegals, pump tons of cash into the election campaigns of congressmen who will toe the line.

A solution could be as simple as "enforce current law" but the current president has no interest in that concept. The next one to come along probably won't either. The problem has become so big that enforcement means "spending more money" and money is at a premium right now.

First and foremost almost all legal migrants ask why the illegal ones cannot go through the effort of becoming legal. Fear is a BULLSHIITE excuse. There is enough Amnesty for them to get processed. Also, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse!" Dopes Alabama have any immigration stations for migrant labor? NO. Neither does California although PRE-JERRY BROWN PASS ONE IN THE 1970s WE DID HAVE MIGRANT WORKER STATIONS IN MEXICO. Guess who ended that program here. How that momma's boy got elected AGAIN blows me away and baffles me to no end. Also using the morality of "All Illegal Immigrants are not Bad people," is not fallaciously wrong MORALLY SPEAKING but they are here illegally and therefore breaking our laws. I am not a bad person but if I am speeding I am breaking the law. Illegals take chances like driving with no license and then flee when caught and usually cause serious accidents thanks to their fear and in some cases people get killed thanks top their acts of fear! And no license means they DON'T have insurance either.

ALL ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE LAW BREAKERS! And what is worst is that a lot of Liberals want to argue that illegal immigrants are people too. Well they are, and they are criminals. People need to wake the hell up and realize there is personal belief and what is REAL WORLD. How much water does one million people drink? Shall we start to talk about the cost of having the excess population burdening out infrastructure?

People need to quit with the false morality! Everyone has to complain how unfair the rules are. Welcome to life. It is ALL Unfair.

The researcher in this study estimates that 100 sex offenders a day cross over from Mexico.

Based on a one-year in-depth study, a researcher estimates there are about 240,000 illegal immigrant sex offenders in the United States who have had an average of four victims each.

Deborah Schurman-Kauflin of the Violent Crimes Institute in Atlanta analyzed 1,500 cases from January 1999 through April 2006 that included serial rapes, serial murders, sexual homicides and child molestation committed by illegal immigrants.

She found that while the offenders were located in 36 states, most were in states with the highest numbers of illegal immigrants. California had the most offenders, followed by Texas, Arizona, New Jersey, New York and Florida.

Schurman-Kauflin concluded that, based on a figure of 12 million illegal immigrants and the fact that more of this population is male than average, sex offenders among illegals make up a higher percentage than offenders in the general population.

She arrives at the figure of 240,000 offenders – a conservative estimate, she says – through public records showing about 2 percent of illegals apprehended are sex offenders.

"This translates to 93 sex offenders and 12 serial sexual offenders coming across U.S. borders illegally per day," she says.

She points out the 1,500 offenders in her study had a total of 5,999 victims, and each sex offender averaged four victims.

"This places the estimate for victimization numbers around 960,000 for the 88 months examined in this study," she declares.

Schurman-Kauflin breaks down the 1,500 cases reviewed this way:

525, or 35 percent, were child molestations

358, or 24 percent, were rapes

617, or 41 percent, were sexual homicides and serial murders

Of the child molestations, 47 percent of the victims were Hispanic, 36 percent Caucasian, 8 percent Asian, 6 percent African American and 3 percent other nationalities.

In 82 percent of the cases, she noted, the victims were known to their attackers.

"In those instances, the illegal immigrants typically gained access to the victims after having worked as a day laborer at or near the victims' homes," she says. "Victims ranged in age from 1 year old to 13 years old, with the average age being 6."

In her examination of the sex-related homicides, Schurman-Kauflin found the most common method was for an offender to break into a residence and ambush his victims.

Not only were victims raped, she said, but some – 6 percent – were mutilated.

"The crime scenes were very bloody, expressing intense, angry perpetrator personalities," she said. "Specifically, most victims were blitzed, rendered incapable of fighting back, and then raped and murdered. The most common method of killing was bludgeoning, followed by stabbing."

She found it especially disturbing that in 22 percent of all sex crimes committed by illegal immigrants, victims with physical and mental disabilities were targeted.

The highest number of sex offenders, according to the study, came from Mexico. El Salvador was the original home to the next highest number. Other countries of origin included Brazil, China, Ecuador, Guatemala, Honduras, Jamaica, Nicaragua, Puerto Rico, Russia, and Vietnam.

Nearly 63 percent of the offenders had been deported on another offense prior to the sex crime, the study showed. There was an average of three years of committing crimes such as DUI, assault or drug related offenses prior to being apprehended for a sexual offense.

In 81 percent of cases, offenders were drinking or using drugs prior to offending. Rapists and killers were more likely to use alcohol and drugs consistently than child molesters.

Only about 25 percent of offenders were found to have been stable within a community. In 31 percent of the crimes, the offenders entered into the communities where they offended within two months of the commission of their sex offenses.

But many, 79 percent, had been in the U.S. for more than one year before being arrested for a sex crime. They typically were known to the criminal justice system for prior, less serious offenses before they molested, raped or murdered, the study said.

Schurman-Kauflin concludes illegal immigrants gradually commit worse crimes and are continually released back into society or deported.

"Those who were deported simply returned illegally again," she says.

She points out that only 2 percent of the offenders in her study had no history of criminal behavior, beyond crossing the border illegally.

"There is a clear pattern of criminal escalation," she said.

Read more: Study: 1 million sex crimes by illegals http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=36410#ixzz1a3jwBaj1

"
People need to quit with the false morality! Everyone has to complain how unfair the rules are. Welcome to life. It is ALL Unfair.
"

*
Your just a mean heartless person who hates brown people, you are probably to ignorant to understand the complexity of the topic and your ignorance makes you scared and in your panic you are hateful...*

Why bother explaining it to people who think like that anyway?

People who profit from illicit activities like hiring illegal's?

People who have more compassion for some immigrant breaking the law then half the native born population of this country?

There is more then enough *data* availible to confirm that:

Some immigration is good for this country but too much of something is never good and there are a host of problems that come along with illegals....

Like i said, if you care so much for those people, then why don't you personally help them instead of laying the burden on the backs of other people???

Bush was lenient too.

It is because of the reasons you listed here and it is a public image nightmare trying to balance human consideration and extrication of humans from their lives especially the non criminal ones.

LOL but this can't be verified as factual.

It is guestimation for hateful purposes.

Sadly there are those sad humans who really don't want to solve this problem except to hate on other humans.

The purpose for trying to make them all seem like violent criminals is to promote the hatred of them.

So the next step can be treating them like they are not human.

We have to be smarter than to buy into that kind of tactic. It has been done before about blacks, gays, non religious, etc...

In order to prevent it from happening we cannot stop remembering that they are humans living just like we are.

Ok, smarty-pants, what is your solution?

*lets play around with fuzzy numbers and talk about the problem*

Umm that isn't a solution.

"
In order to prevent it from happening we cannot stop remembering that they are humans living just like we are. "

Right, everybody is a human EXCEPT white people who aren't bleeding heart liberals...laugh.......

You are scaring me. You sound like two people I can think of here. Did you get bitten by a radioactive liberal here?

And how many times have I got to spell out my solutions? One of them was to set up (An old idea mind you that did work!) is migrant worker application centers in Mexico. California did have that pre Jerry Brown.

Also I am against tying the hands of law enforcement. They should ask if someone is a migrant or not and to SEE THEIR PAPERS! If they are in compliance with our laws there should be no problem.

HARSH TREATMENT OF CRIMINALS! WAY HARSH! CHAIN GANGS AND WHIPS! Two strikes you are banished. Come here twice illegally after deportation, you are denied categorically any legal right to be here at all! Compare that with a country like say Japan! Caught once and don't come back. We should be handing out migrant work visas for six months in and six months back home. At least a Mexcian tomato picker can be here legally!

But worst of all is Americans have lost work ethic. How many of these "Poor" welfare addicts are willing to pick strawberries? None that I know of.

It is sick to me how people can say in one breath we are a nation of laws but then we subjectively hold them against our own and allow foreign borne illegal activity! Absolutely SICK!

I hope the people that you are imitating can see what I am spelling here in English. Think I should use smaller words?

What do you have againest radioactive people? :)

Not factual? She spent a year studying actual case files. What could be more factual than that? There is no hate here. She is merely calculating the number of crimes caused by illegals which is what the feds did to come up with the 52% of all federal crime in the US. The crimes committed are not mostly drug related but sex, robbery, murder, and all other crimes in high numbers and high percentages.

Yelling "hate" at any fact that disagrees with your opinion is dishonest. The crimes committed by illegals are a huge national problem that is mostly being swept under the rug by politicians.

If you think her study is false, show proof. Stating that it is false with no evidence is being untruthful. You don't know.

Exactly! The laborous jobs that American's don't line up to fill still have to be done by someone if we want our crops to come in. Controlled immigration is the key in my mind....since we can't turn back time to stop the revolving door now anyway.

To those of you who figure we can always import tomatoes...this is only one crop harvested mostly by immigrants. Going from the breadbasket of the world to a country that imports a good part of it's own produce needs would not only effect our economy, but the world economy.

Yes, there is a problem, but let's not replace it with a different problem.

Metalwing,

We are not likely to see eye to eye, but this may interest you since you like census data. This particular table from the same census report compares the educational achievement back to 1970. As you'll see the rate of college grads increases by over 3 times just between 1970 and 2010. Though this table also breaks down by ethnic groups, I think for the purposes of this conversation only the total column is relevant.

Edit: I don't seem to be able to get the table pasted here, but here is the link...

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0230.pdf

If I'm not going to (obviously) convince you that our workforce is becoming more educated over time, and this the cause to the effect that the government opened the border initially, then I’d be interested to learn the reason(s) that you believe responsible for the implementation our country’s revolving door immigration policy around 1965?

In the same light, I’d also be interested to learn what you believe was the cause of Alabama’s failure to harvest? Do you attribute this to extended unemployment benefits? American laziness? Anything?

Nicely put.

This has nothing to do with strawberry pickers and work-visas...

This has to do with felons and the other jobs that are being taken by illegal.

We can argue back and forth all day about how many illegal are taking service jobs if you like. I can go through the effort of providing sources, ins raid listings, personal stories etc if you like!!!


As far as American work ethics, yes there is defiantly some truth in that statement but also it is conveniently always the people who have been in the most advantageous position to profit from that mentioned work ethic that bring that up!!!

And no I am not talking specifically or Necessarily about you.

I for one also see danger in a round them all up approach because it gives people an excuse to exercise there inner most animosity on others but the fact remains we have to get tough on immigration, REALLY tough and that means putting political correctness aside and having some spine.