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| Topic: ASSUMPTIONS | |
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just a clarification i support the troops but do not support the way they are being abused they sign up to protect their country that is an honorable thing those that are elected to office abuse the troops by putting them in harms way for unjust reasons and for their own political gain they send them into other countries to be killed and wounded for what purpose if it was because plane were flown into buildings---how come we are not attacking pakistan---proof positive they were harboring the mastermind of the event why is it they still get aid money from the united states so no its not truly about 9-11 or pakistan would be invaded but hey what do i know I support our troops too hon, as I have stated my eldest brother was career military I just dont support the idealistic notion that being enlisted automatically makes one patriotic or automatically means they care or are trying to protect my rights,, it doesnt even automatically mean they will be called to protect my rights and just like we purchase vehicles knowing we MAY get into an accident, few of us purchase them eXPECTING it to happen this is true of being called to protect america too, when it comes to the troops MANY MANY Dont truly believe they will ever be called into danger, regardless of the papers they sign as teenagers and young adults i hear ya if ya read all my posts in this thread i think you would see i kinda agree with ya and wearing the uniform does not make one better than one that doesnt in and of its self |
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what i wanna know is why it is that because they are in harms way in a place 1000s of miles away that it is considered standing up for our rights those stationed in the country are doing more for our citizenship than those fighting in a country that is not even an ally of ours how do those doing the bidding of a congress or president overseas stand up for our rights they would be standing up for the people of this country more if they refused to go overseas unless that country outright attacked us if there are terrorist groups there send in a covert team os snipers and pick them off 1 by 1 the terrorist won the 9/11 battle the us went into deep debt fighting wars and dropped the credibility of the us economy below the best in the world and the lost jobs from many being pulled into active duty thus not b n able too pay bills fuel prices go up because of the instability of the area thus causing the loss of expendable income and then some which leads again too not b n able to pay bills then comes the trillions in give aways to get the economy moving this is just my opinion which dont count for much but hey what do i know good question |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Tue 09/20/11 07:30 PM
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Wow just read this and the only thing that came to mind is WTF!!! First of all our Military no matter what area they serve either it be on the front line or the one pushing the pencil to make sure they get the supplies they need. They are all important and joined in order to serve this country. To assume they are not standing up for our rights is down right Un-American in my book... By knowing several in the Military within different branches and all holding down different jobs. From the front line to the pencil pusher they joined because they believe in the Rights this Country and withhold those beliefs in every area they serve within the Military. As far as the flip side I can pretty well be right on the money to say those on welfare does not work as hard as those with a 9-5 job even if they are sitting on their azz. Now do I assume they don't deserve to be on welfare no I don't. Even though it is a given fact that many admit they want work cause they can get more off the system and stay home. But then to assume that what one does or for the reason they do it one can never know the full answer to that unless they are that person. 
Yes I fully agree with you regarding the Military! I lived for more than 30 years near an AFB and military personnel were family friends - regardless of their particular "job" within the Military, they join from a sense of duty to serve the United States. They stand up for our rights everyday, and everyday some dies for our rights as far as welfare, it is more complex question I think - what I will agree to is that no assumptions should be made about the recipients tho I think it is safe to assume that the system, tho well intended, is flawed. just my .02 I agree, the system is flawed, economically as well as militarily PEntagon studies have shown MANY reasons that people enlist besides merely a sense of 'duty' IN economies that are unsteady and in areas where job stability seems like an unlikely end (impoverished areas) many join just to escape poverty,, nothing I Begrudge them, but more a sense of protection and duty of their own needs than necessarily a concern for the needs of others..let alone their rights others join to get away from home others join for the promise of citizenship many enlisted NEVER see a battle and mostly train and learn during their enrollment during times of peace (When there is no actual 'fighting' for them to be doing, unless you consider learning a skill to further their financial stability in the US as a fight) ,,,,,I UNDERSTAND the military has MANY MANY MANY Patriots and many that ARE fighting for our rights my observation is that the action of some kid being able to sign a paper stating allegience, doesnt BY ITSELF mean that kid wants to or will be 'fighting' for anyones rights anymore than someone signing a contract to be a teacher means they are going to care about educating kids or someone signing a contract to wear a badge means they are going to care about protecting and serving for MANY MANY people, they do what they have to do for their OWN SURVIVAL , and a JOB IS A JOB... |
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Wow just read this and the only thing that came to mind is WTF!!! First of all our Military no matter what area they serve either it be on the front line or the one pushing the pencil to make sure they get the supplies they need. They are all important and joined in order to serve this country. To assume they are not standing up for our rights is down right Un-American in my book... By knowing several in the Military within different branches and all holding down different jobs. From the front line to the pencil pusher they joined because they believe in the Rights this Country and withhold those beliefs in every area they serve within the Military. As far as the flip side I can pretty well be right on the money to say those on welfare does not work as hard as those with a 9-5 job even if they are sitting on their azz. Now do I assume they don't deserve to be on welfare no I don't. Even though it is a given fact that many admit they want work cause they can get more off the system and stay home. But then to assume that what one does or for the reason they do it one can never know the full answer to that unless they are that person.
Yes I fully agree with you regarding the Military! I lived for more than 30 years near an AFB and military personnel were family friends - regardless of their particular "job" within the Military, they join from a sense of duty to serve the United States. They stand up for our rights everyday, and everyday some dies for our rights as far as welfare, it is more complex question I think - what I will agree to is that no assumptions should be made about the recipients tho I think it is safe to assume that the system, tho well intended, is flawed. just my .02 I agree, the system is flawed, economically as well as militarily PEntagon studies have shown MANY reasons that people enlist besides merely a sense of 'duty' IN economies that are unsteady and in areas where job stability seems like an unlikely end (impoverished areas) many join just to escape poverty,, nothing I Begrudge them, but more a sense of protection and duty of their own needs than necessarily a concern for the needs of others..let alone their rights others join to get away from home others join for the promise of citizenship many enlisted NEVER see a battle and mostly train and learn during their enrollment during times of peace (When there is no actual 'fighting' for them to be doing, unless you consider learning a skill to further their financial stability in the US as a fight) ,,,,,I UNDERSTAND the military has MANY MANY MANY Patriots and many that ARE fighting for our rights my observation is that the action of some kid being able to sign a paper stating allegience, doesnt BY ITSELF mean that kid wants to or will be 'fighting' for anyones rights aside from, or in addition to, a sense of duty, I am sure that the reasons people join the service are as varied as are its members living near Wright Patt, however, I was exposed to a particularly esteemed group in the air wing and research lab groups. I can honestly say EVERY military I met, several as my neighbors, were duty bound |
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Wow just read this and the only thing that came to mind is WTF!!! First of all our Military no matter what area they serve either it be on the front line or the one pushing the pencil to make sure they get the supplies they need. They are all important and joined in order to serve this country. To assume they are not standing up for our rights is down right Un-American in my book... By knowing several in the Military within different branches and all holding down different jobs. From the front line to the pencil pusher they joined because they believe in the Rights this Country and withhold those beliefs in every area they serve within the Military. As far as the flip side I can pretty well be right on the money to say those on welfare does not work as hard as those with a 9-5 job even if they are sitting on their azz. Now do I assume they don't deserve to be on welfare no I don't. Even though it is a given fact that many admit they want work cause they can get more off the system and stay home. But then to assume that what one does or for the reason they do it one can never know the full answer to that unless they are that person.
Yes I fully agree with you regarding the Military! I lived for more than 30 years near an AFB and military personnel were family friends - regardless of their particular "job" within the Military, they join from a sense of duty to serve the United States. They stand up for our rights everyday, and everyday some dies for our rights as far as welfare, it is more complex question I think - what I will agree to is that no assumptions should be made about the recipients tho I think it is safe to assume that the system, tho well intended, is flawed. just my .02 I agree, the system is flawed, economically as well as militarily PEntagon studies have shown MANY reasons that people enlist besides merely a sense of 'duty' IN economies that are unsteady and in areas where job stability seems like an unlikely end (impoverished areas) many join just to escape poverty,, nothing I Begrudge them, but more a sense of protection and duty of their own needs than necessarily a concern for the needs of others..let alone their rights others join to get away from home others join for the promise of citizenship many enlisted NEVER see a battle and mostly train and learn during their enrollment during times of peace (When there is no actual 'fighting' for them to be doing, unless you consider learning a skill to further their financial stability in the US as a fight) ,,,,,I UNDERSTAND the military has MANY MANY MANY Patriots and many that ARE fighting for our rights my observation is that the action of some kid being able to sign a paper stating allegience, doesnt BY ITSELF mean that kid wants to or will be 'fighting' for anyones rights aside from, or in addition to, a sense of duty, I am sure that the reasons people join the service are as varied as are its members living near Wright Patt, however, I was exposed to a particularly esteemed group in the air wing and research lab groups. I can honestly say EVERY military I met, several as my neighbors, were duty bound I believe that. I believe that sometimes the attitude gets picked up being immersed in those atmospheres with others. But I think its probably not so ALL over the country where new high school grads or college students are enrolled. Thats why recruiters have to work like SALES PEOPLE to convince them, because inherent DUTY is often not what is driving them. |
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Wow just read this and the only thing that came to mind is WTF!!! First of all our Military no matter what area they serve either it be on the front line or the one pushing the pencil to make sure they get the supplies they need. They are all important and joined in order to serve this country. To assume they are not standing up for our rights is down right Un-American in my book... By knowing several in the Military within different branches and all holding down different jobs. From the front line to the pencil pusher they joined because they believe in the Rights this Country and withhold those beliefs in every area they serve within the Military. As far as the flip side I can pretty well be right on the money to say those on welfare does not work as hard as those with a 9-5 job even if they are sitting on their azz. Now do I assume they don't deserve to be on welfare no I don't. Even though it is a given fact that many admit they want work cause they can get more off the system and stay home. But then to assume that what one does or for the reason they do it one can never know the full answer to that unless they are that person.
Yes I fully agree with you regarding the Military! I lived for more than 30 years near an AFB and military personnel were family friends - regardless of their particular "job" within the Military, they join from a sense of duty to serve the United States. They stand up for our rights everyday, and everyday some dies for our rights as far as welfare, it is more complex question I think - what I will agree to is that no assumptions should be made about the recipients tho I think it is safe to assume that the system, tho well intended, is flawed. just my .02 I agree, the system is flawed, economically as well as militarily PEntagon studies have shown MANY reasons that people enlist besides merely a sense of 'duty' IN economies that are unsteady and in areas where job stability seems like an unlikely end (impoverished areas) many join just to escape poverty,, nothing I Begrudge them, but more a sense of protection and duty of their own needs than necessarily a concern for the needs of others..let alone their rights others join to get away from home others join for the promise of citizenship many enlisted NEVER see a battle and mostly train and learn during their enrollment during times of peace (When there is no actual 'fighting' for them to be doing, unless you consider learning a skill to further their financial stability in the US as a fight) ,,,,,I UNDERSTAND the military has MANY MANY MANY Patriots and many that ARE fighting for our rights my observation is that the action of some kid being able to sign a paper stating allegience, doesnt BY ITSELF mean that kid wants to or will be 'fighting' for anyones rights aside from, or in addition to, a sense of duty, I am sure that the reasons people join the service are as varied as are its members living near Wright Patt, however, I was exposed to a particularly esteemed group in the air wing and research lab groups. I can honestly say EVERY military I met, several as my neighbors, were duty bound I believe that. I believe that sometimes the attitude gets picked up being immersed in those atmospheres with others. But I think its probably not so ALL over the country where new high school grads or college students are enrolled. Thats why recruiters have to work like SALES PEOPLE to convince them, because inherent DUTY is often not what is driving them. I believe this too msharmony, and at the same I think the military can provide a positive avenue for youth who could (without proper guidance) make lots worse choices |
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Maybe ya'll should just slug it out. First one to die loses. Jeezus people. Just cause you may not necessarily agree with a perspective is no reason to jump her like a pack of rabid chihuahuas. (Don't get me wrong...there ARE some douche bags spewing hatred around here that could use a good a$$ kicking...Harmony ain't one of em) I know this concept will never register with some people but you you don't HAVE to comment on posts you don't agree with. I wasn't going to....cause I don't necessarily agree. But, I don't just sit back and let people gang up on someone if I don't think it's right. Harmony has the right to her opinion....I served, my brother served and my Dad served...to protect the right of people to say what they wanna say. But, if b!tching is your thing....have at it. 
Shot down in flames... I had better not say anything else or krupa is going to go crook on me.. But still have to say i cant agree 
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Maybe ya'll should just slug it out. First one to die loses. Jeezus people. Just cause you may not necessarily agree with a perspective is no reason to jump her like a pack of rabid chihuahuas. (Don't get me wrong...there ARE some douche bags spewing hatred around here that could use a good a$$ kicking...Harmony ain't one of em) I know this concept will never register with some people but you you don't HAVE to comment on posts you don't agree with. I wasn't going to....cause I don't necessarily agree. But, I don't just sit back and let people gang up on someone if I don't think it's right. Harmony has the right to her opinion....I served, my brother served and my Dad served...to protect the right of people to say what they wanna say. But, if b!tching is your thing....have at it.
Shot down in flames... I had better not say anything else or krupa is going to go crook on me.. But still have to say i cant agree
well I think our freind up there needs a chill pill. msharmony is doing a fine job of clarifying her POV - as usual.... |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Tue 09/20/11 08:17 PM
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I agree with the O.P. that the reasons for joining the military are varied. One should never assume their reasons.
The "belief" (or assumption) that all people in the military are there to fight for my rights is basically mass programming. It keeps some young men enlisting to feel better about their lives maybe. My nephew joined to get background and training for his desired career in law enforcement, because he wants to be a Federal Marshall. A friend of his who is a Federal Marshall advised him to join the Navy. He is in the intelligence division now and he really likes it so far. Its a career. After basic training he came home and was a changed man. He was more respectful to people and just not such a lazy goof off like he was before he went in. He is currently in Libya. I hope he does not get hurt or killed. He is into high tech computer stuff. |
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You guys are also forgetting the fact that some people join the military because they can't do anything else but maybe flip burgers or were just plain trouble kids. Remember the threat some kids would get back in the day? "You better shape up or I'm sending you off to military school!"
So yeah, while some have noble intentions, others join so they have their school paid for, others so they can travel and see the world, while others just have no other avenue to take. |
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You guys are also forgetting the fact that some people join the military because they can't do anything else but maybe flip burgers or were just plain trouble kids. Remember the threat some kids would get back in the day? "You better shape up or I'm sending you off to military school!" So yeah, while some have noble intentions, others join so they have their school paid for, others so they can travel and see the world, while others just have no other avenue to take. but perhaps some are not feeling that at 18, no job and dad is saying get out |
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Wow just read this and the only thing that came to mind is WTF!!! First of all our Military no matter what area they serve either it be on the front line or the one pushing the pencil to make sure they get the supplies they need. They are all important and joined in order to serve this country. To assume they are not standing up for our rights is down right Un-American in my book... By knowing several in the Military within different branches and all holding down different jobs. From the front line to the pencil pusher they joined because they believe in the Rights this Country and withhold those beliefs in every area they serve within the Military. As far as the flip side I can pretty well be right on the money to say those on welfare does not work as hard as those with a 9-5 job even if they are sitting on their azz. Now do I assume they don't deserve to be on welfare no I don't. Even though it is a given fact that many admit they want work cause they can get more off the system and stay home. But then to assume that what one does or for the reason they do it one can never know the full answer to that unless they are that person.
Yes I fully agree with you regarding the Military! I lived for more than 30 years near an AFB and military personnel were family friends - regardless of their particular "job" within the Military, they join from a sense of duty to serve the United States. They stand up for our rights everyday, and everyday some dies for our rights as far as welfare, it is more complex question I think - what I will agree to is that no assumptions should be made about the recipients tho I think it is safe to assume that the system, tho well intended, is flawed. just my .02 I agree, the system is flawed, economically as well as militarily PEntagon studies have shown MANY reasons that people enlist besides merely a sense of 'duty' IN economies that are unsteady and in areas where job stability seems like an unlikely end (impoverished areas) many join just to escape poverty,, nothing I Begrudge them, but more a sense of protection and duty of their own needs than necessarily a concern for the needs of others..let alone their rights others join to get away from home others join for the promise of citizenship many enlisted NEVER see a battle and mostly train and learn during their enrollment during times of peace (When there is no actual 'fighting' for them to be doing, unless you consider learning a skill to further their financial stability in the US as a fight) ,,,,,I UNDERSTAND the military has MANY MANY MANY Patriots and many that ARE fighting for our rights my observation is that the action of some kid being able to sign a paper stating allegience, doesnt BY ITSELF mean that kid wants to or will be 'fighting' for anyones rights aside from, or in addition to, a sense of duty, I am sure that the reasons people join the service are as varied as are its members living near Wright Patt, however, I was exposed to a particularly esteemed group in the air wing and research lab groups. I can honestly say EVERY military I met, several as my neighbors, were duty bound I believe that. I believe that sometimes the attitude gets picked up being immersed in those atmospheres with others. But I think its probably not so ALL over the country where new high school grads or college students are enrolled. Thats why recruiters have to work like SALES PEOPLE to convince them, because inherent DUTY is often not what is driving them. I believe this too msharmony, and at the same I think the military can provide a positive avenue for youth who could (without proper guidance) make lots worse choices I agree, Id much rather see at risk youth 'sentenced' to boot camps than to prisons,,,, |
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Maybe ya'll should just slug it out. First one to die loses. Jeezus people. Just cause you may not necessarily agree with a perspective is no reason to jump her like a pack of rabid chihuahuas. (Don't get me wrong...there ARE some douche bags spewing hatred around here that could use a good a$$ kicking...Harmony ain't one of em) I know this concept will never register with some people but you you don't HAVE to comment on posts you don't agree with. I wasn't going to....cause I don't necessarily agree. But, I don't just sit back and let people gang up on someone if I don't think it's right. Harmony has the right to her opinion....I served, my brother served and my Dad served...to protect the right of people to say what they wanna say. But, if b!tching is your thing....have at it.
Shot down in flames... I had better not say anything else or krupa is going to go crook on me.. But still have to say i cant agree
I doubt you were one he was referring to josie,, u have always given respectful and considerate responses, as far as I can tell, even when you disagree with a pov 
and I love how you CLARIFY by sharing what your personal EXPERIENCE has been,, instead of insisting that is everyones reality,,, |
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very nice thread here tonight......
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One wise guy says to another: "Why join the Army? Its just a guy you don't know telling you to wack another guy you don't know."
 (I thought that really made sense on a personal basis.)
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One wise guy says to another: "Why join the Army? Its just a guy you don't know telling you to wack another guy you don't know." (I thought that really made sense on a personal basis.)
that is the personal dilemma I have with the military I believe we need one, we have to have one, someone has to play guard and I understand the need for near absolute loyalty and obedience by rank but its that human element that means people will be asked for unjust causes and to kill others for those same causes and they have no recourse and MUST do it,,,, thats really hard for me to grasp, ,it would be like being in a marriage with no chance of divorce no matter how badly you felt,,,, without DIRE civilian consequences(dishonarable discharge can be very damaging) |
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Edited by
Sandelwood4
on
Tue 09/20/11 09:17 PM
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One wise guy says to another: "Why join the Army? Its just a guy you don't know telling you to wack another guy you don't know." (I thought that really made sense on a personal basis.)
  I like that.
The things is I am very unpatriotic and anti war for so many reasons on so many levels. But let's just leave it at that. 
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One wise guy says to another: "Why join the Army? Its just a guy you don't know telling you to wack another guy you don't know." (I thought that really made sense on a personal basis.)
I like that.
The things is I am very unpatriotic and anti war for so many reasons on so many levels. But let's just leave it at that.
also anti war here oddly some anti war people I have met are military or ex military - fight one and learn to hate it, I guess |
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Maybe ya'll should just slug it out. First one to die loses. Jeezus people. Just cause you may not necessarily agree with a perspective is no reason to jump her like a pack of rabid chihuahuas. (Don't get me wrong...there ARE some douche bags spewing hatred around here that could use a good a$$ kicking...Harmony ain't one of em) I know this concept will never register with some people but you you don't HAVE to comment on posts you don't agree with. I wasn't going to....cause I don't necessarily agree. But, I don't just sit back and let people gang up on someone if I don't think it's right. Harmony has the right to her opinion....I served, my brother served and my Dad served...to protect the right of people to say what they wanna say. But, if b!tching is your thing....have at it.
Shot down in flames... I had better not say anything else or krupa is going to go crook on me.. But still have to say i cant agree
I doubt you were one he was referring to josie,, u have always given respectful and considerate responses, as far as I can tell, even when you disagree with a pov
and I love how you CLARIFY by sharing what your personal EXPERIENCE has been,, instead of insisting that is everyones reality,,, It is the fairy world I live in, where I just want everything to be perfect, so I make the assumption that everyone who does anything does it for reasons that are noble and honourable, at times I can forget that people dont always do things because they love it, actually that is something that rarely enters my thoughts, I have always taught the kids that when you grow up it doesnt matter what you do as long as you love it, simply because it takes over most of your life..
Yep I live in a little box.
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Maybe ya'll should just slug it out. First one to die loses. Jeezus people. Just cause you may not necessarily agree with a perspective is no reason to jump her like a pack of rabid chihuahuas. (Don't get me wrong...there ARE some douche bags spewing hatred around here that could use a good a$$ kicking...Harmony ain't one of em) I know this concept will never register with some people but you you don't HAVE to comment on posts you don't agree with. I wasn't going to....cause I don't necessarily agree. But, I don't just sit back and let people gang up on someone if I don't think it's right. Harmony has the right to her opinion....I served, my brother served and my Dad served...to protect the right of people to say what they wanna say. But, if b!tching is your thing....have at it.
Shot down in flames... I had better not say anything else or krupa is going to go crook on me.. But still have to say i cant agree
I doubt you were one he was referring to josie,, u have always given respectful and considerate responses, as far as I can tell, even when you disagree with a pov
and I love how you CLARIFY by sharing what your personal EXPERIENCE has been,, instead of insisting that is everyones reality,,, It is the fairy world I live in, where I just want everything to be perfect, so I make the assumption that everyone who does anything does it for reasons that are noble and honourable, at times I can forget that people dont always do things because they love it, actually that is something that rarely enters my thoughts, I have always taught the kids that when you grow up it doesnt matter what you do as long as you love it, simply because it takes over most of your life..
Yep I live in a little box.
you are a fortunate one, for the box seems to inspire what seems to be a loving and trusting spirit, with little of the world to spoil it,,, many of us in the 'world', dont have that blessing bestowed us,,,
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