These people are crazy. I listened to a radio show about them this afternoon. You can hear it at the link below if you're interested. Some of the people involved even backed the anti-gay bill in Uganda. Disgusting.

It's scary that people like Rick Perry are actually involved with these people.

http://www.npr.org/2011/08/24/139781021/the-evangelicals-engaged-in-spiritual-warfare

August 24, 2011

An emerging Christian movement that seeks to take dominion over politics, business and culture in preparation for the end times and the return of Jesus, is becoming more of a presence in American politics. The leaders are considered apostles and prophets, gifted by God for this role.

The international "apostolic and prophetic" movement has been dubbed by its leading American architect, C. Peter Wagner, as the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). Although the movement is larger than the network organized by Wagner — and not all members describe themselves as part of Wagner's NAR — the so-called apostles and prophets of the movement have identifiable ideology that separates them from other evangelicals.

Two ministries in the movement planned and orchestrated Texas Gov. Rick Perry's recent prayer rally, where apostles and prophets from around the nation spoke or appeared onstage. The event was patterned after The Call, held at locations around the globe and led by Lou Engle, who has served in the Apostolic Council of Prophetic Elders of the NAR. Other NAR apostles endorsed Perry's event, including two who lead a 50-state "prayer warrior" network. Thomas Muthee, the Kenyan pastor who anointed Sarah Palin at the Wasilla Assembly of God Church in 2005, while praying for Jesus to protect her from the spirit of witchcraft, is also part of this movement.

On Wednesday's Fresh Air, Rachel Tabachnick, who researches the political impact of the religious right, joins Terry Gross for a discussion about the growing movement and its influence and connections in the political world.

Tabachnick says the movement currently works with a variety of politicians and has a presence in all 50 states. It also has very strong opinions about the direction it wants the country to take. For the past several years, she says, the NAR has run a campaign to reclaim what it calls the "seven mountains of culture" from demonic influence. The "mountains" are arts and entertainment; business; family; government; media; religion; and education.

"They teach quite literally that these 'mountains' have fallen under the control of demonic influences in society," says Tabachnick. "And therefore, they must reclaim them for God in order to bring about the kingdom of God on Earth. ... The apostles teach what's called 'strategic level spiritual warfare' [because they believe that the] reason why there is sin and corruption and poverty on the Earth is because the Earth is controlled by a hierarchy of demons under the authority of Satan. So they teach not just evangelizing souls one by one, as we're accustomed to hearing about. They teach that they will go into a geographic region or a people group and conduct spiritual-warfare activities in order to remove the demons from the entire population. This is what they're doing that's quite fundamentally different than other evangelical groups."

Continued from previous post..

Rick Perry's Rally

The organizers of Perry's rally were from ministries founded by two apostles/prophets of the movement — The Call, and the International House of Prayer founded by Mike Bickle. Bickle, who led part of Perry's event, has claimed that Oprah Winfrey is a precursor of the Antichrist, and Engle has claimed that gay people are controlled by "demonic spirits." Both have served on the Council of Prophetic Elders initiated by Wagner.

"Lou Engle [has spoken] at length about how one of his sons has started an International House of Prayer in the Castro district of San Francisco and that his son is now expelling demons from homosexuals, and supposedly then this cures them of their homosexuality," says Tabachnick. "He has also held [prayer rallies] around the world."

One of Engle's previous rallies took place in Uganda in May 2010, shortly after an anti-homosexuality bill had been proposed.

"Various people got on the stage [at his rally] and promoted the anti-homosexuality bill in Uganda, which is a very draconian bill that would allow for executions for certain offenses, and would also allow for people who don't report homosexual history to be jailed," she says. "The apostles have had a long history in Uganda, and some of them have had close relationships with both political and religious leaders there. In fact, an apostle in Uganda takes credit for promoting the anti-homosexuality bill and was recognized by the parliament in Uganda when the bill was introduced."

Engle has another rally planned in November in Detroit. The purpose of the prayer rally, says Tabachnick, is to "fight the demonic spirit of Islam."

"In other words, [they want] to conduct spiritual warfare against the spiritual demons which they claim hold Muslims in bondage and keep them from converting," she says. "Of course, this is expressed in terms of love. They say 'We don't hate Muslims. We love Muslims. But we hate that they are in spiritual bondage and don't convert to Christianity.' "

A 'Different' Evangelicalism

Tabachnick, who has been researching and writing about the apostles for a decade, says her own religious background has helped her with her research. She grew up as a Southern Baptist and converted to Judaism as an adult.

"Having the Southern Baptist background and growing up in the Deep South has helped me to be able to do this research and has also helped me realize something that might not be apparent to some other people looking at the movement," she says. "This is quite radically different than the evangelicalism of my youth. The things that we've been talking about are not representative of evangelicalism. They're not representative of conservative evangelicalism. So I think that's important to keep in mind. This is a movement that's growing in popularity, and one of the ways they've been able to do that [is because] they're not very identifiable to most people. They're just presented as nondenominational or just Christian — but it is an identifiable movement now with an identifiable ideology."

Rachel Tabachnick is an independent researcher and a contributor to Talk To Action. She is also the co-founder of the blog NARWatch.
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Interview Highlights

On the issues of the international "apostolic and prophetic" movement

"[Their issues are] anti-abortion, anti-gay rights — but they also have ... the belief that government should not be involved in social safety nets, that the country is becoming socialist, if not communist ... — all of what we've come to call 'Tea Party issues' of very small government. In the case of the apostles, they believe this because they believe that a large government that handles the safety net is taking away what is the domain of the church and of Christianity."

On dominionism

"Dominionism is simply that Christians of this belief system must take control over the various institutions of society and government. Some things that make this group unique is that they have some unusual concepts of what they call spiritual warfare that have not been seen before in other groups. Spiritual warfare is a common term in evangelicalism and in Christianity, but they have some unique approaches and some unique spins on this that distinguish them from other groups."

On Thomas Muthee's video series

"The process [in these videos] is that the people come together, repent, pray together, expel the demons from their community — which they describe in terms of witches and witchcraft — and then the community undergoes a transformation in which there can be miraculous healing, the growth of very large vegetables [and] the end of corruption and crime. What was totally missed by the press was that Muthee was an international leader in the [NAR] movement at the time and recognized because of his role in this series of videos."

On the topics at Rick Perry's rally

"The major topics at these events [are] anti-abortion, anti-gay rights and the conversion of Jews in order to advance the end times. And this was very visible at Perry's events as these apostles led all of these different prayers and repentance ceremonies at [his rally]."

I just cannot understand how people fall for this crap,

The sheeple have been willingly falling for it for decades

If it ain't radical Christians it's radical Muslims.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/08/14/dominionism-michele-bachmann-and-rick-perry-s-dangerous-religious-bond.html

A Christian Plot for Domination?

Michele Bachmann and Rick Perry aren't just devout—both have deep ties to a fringe fundamentalist movement known as Dominionism, which says Christians should rule the world.
by Michelle Goldberg | August 14, 2011 10:51 PM EDT

With Tim Pawlenty out of the presidential race, it is now fairly clear that the GOP candidate will either be Mitt Romney or someone who makes George W. Bush look like Tom Paine. Of the three most plausible candidates for the Republican nomination, two are deeply associated with a theocratic strain of Christian fundamentalism known as Dominionism. If you want to understand Michele Bachmann and Rick Perry, understanding Dominionism isn’t optional.

Put simply, Dominionism means that Christians have a God-given right to rule all earthly institutions. Originating among some of America’s most radical theocrats, it’s long had an influence on religious-right education and political organizing. But because it seems so outré, getting ordinary people to take it seriously can be difficult. Most writers, myself included, who explore it have been called paranoid. In a contemptuous 2006 First Things review of several books, including Kevin Phillips’ American Theocracy, and my own Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism, conservative columnist Ross Douthat wrote, “the fear of theocracy has become a defining panic of the Bush era.”

Now, however, we have the most theocratic Republican field in American history, and suddenly, the concept of Dominionism is reaching mainstream audiences. Writing about Bachmann in The New Yorker this month, Ryan Lizza spent several paragraphs explaining how the premise fit into the Minnesota congresswoman’s intellectual and theological development. And a recent Texas Observer cover story on Rick Perry examined his relationship with the New Apostolic Reformation, a Dominionist variant of Pentecostalism that coalesced about a decade ago. “[W]hat makes the New Apostolic Reformation movement so potent is its growing fascination with infiltrating politics and government,” wrote Forrest Wilder. Its members “believe Christians—certain Christians—are destined to not just take ‘dominion’ over government, but stealthily climb to the commanding heights of what they term the ‘Seven Mountains’ of society, including the media and the arts and entertainment world.”

In many ways, Dominionism is more a political phenomenon than a theological one. It cuts across Christian denominations, from stern, austere sects to the signs-and-wonders culture of modern megachurches. Think of it like political Islamism, which shapes the activism of a number of antagonistic fundamentalist movements, from Sunni Wahabis in the Arab world to Shiite fundamentalists in Iran.

Dominionism derives from a small fringe sect called Christian Reconstructionism, founded by a Calvinist theologian named R. J. Rushdoony in the 1960s. Christian Reconstructionism openly advocates replacing American law with the strictures of the Old Testament, replete with the death penalty for homosexuality, abortion, and even apostasy. The appeal of Christian Reconstructionism is, obviously, limited, and mainstream Christian right figures like Ralph Reed have denounced it.

But while Rushdoony was a totalitarian, he was a prolific and influential one—he elaborated his theories in a number of books, including the massive, three-volume Institutes of Biblical Law. And his ideas, along with those of his followers, have had an incalculable impact on the milieu that spawned both Bachmann and Perry.

Rushdoony pioneered the Christian homeschooling movement, as well as the revisionist history, ubiquitous on the religious right, that paints the U.S. as a Christian nation founded on biblical principles. He consistently defended Southern slavery and contrasted it with the greater evils of socialism: “The law here is humane and also unsentimental,” he wrote. “It recognizes that some people are by nature slaves and will always be so ... Socialism, on the contrary, tries to give the slave all the advantages of his security together with the benefits of freedom, and in the process, destroys both the free and the enslaved.”

Rushdoony’s most influential idea was the concept of Dominionism, which spread far beyond the Christian Reconstructionist fringe. “‘Dominion theologians,’ as they are called, lay great emphasis on Genesis 1:26–7, where God tells Adam to assume dominion over the animate and inanimate world,” wrote the scholar Garry Wills in his book Under God: Religion and American Politics, describing the influence of the ideology on Pat Robertson. “When man fell, his control over creation was forfeited; but the saved, who are restored by baptism, can claim again the rights given Adam.”
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For believers in Dominionism, rule by non-Christians is a sort of sacrilege—which explains, in part, the theological fury that has accompanied the election of our last two Democratic presidents. “Christians have an obligation, a mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the land for Jesus Christ—to have dominion in civil structures, just as in every other aspect of life and godliness,” wrote George Grant, the former executive director of Coral Ridge Ministries, which has since changed its name to Truth in Action Ministries. “But it is dominion we are after. Not just a voice ... It is dominion we are after. Not just equal time ... World conquest.”

Bachmann is close to Truth in Action Ministries; last year, she appeared in one of its documentaries, Socialism: A Clear and Present Danger. In it, she espoused the idea, common in Reconstructionist circles, that the government has no right to collect taxes in excess of 10 percent, the amount that believers are called to tithe to the church. On her state-senate-campaign website, she recommended a book co-authored by Grant titled Call of Duty: The Sterling Nobility of Robert E. Lee, which, as Lizza reported, depicted the civil war as a battle between the devout Christian South and the Godless North, and lauded slavery as a benevolent institution. “The unity and companionship that existed between the races in the South prior to the war was the fruit of a common faith,” the book said.

One could go on and on listing the Dominionist influences on Bachmann’s thinking. She often cites Francis Schaeffer, the godfather of the anti-abortion movement, who held seminars on Rushdoony’s work and helped disseminate his ideas to a larger evangelical audience. John Eidsmoe, an Oral Roberts University professor who, she’s said, “had a great influence on me,” is a Christian Reconstructionist. She often praises the Christian nationalist historian David Barton, who is intimately associated with the Christian Reconstructionist movement; an article about slavery on the website of his organization, Wallbuilders, defends the institution’s biblical basis, with extensive citations of Rushdoony. (“God's laws concerning slavery provided parameters for treatment of slaves, which were for the benefit of all involved,” it says.)

In elaborating Bachmann’s Dominionist history, though, it’s important to point out that she is not unique. Perry tends to be regarded as marginally more reasonable than Bachmann, but he is as closely associated with Dominionism as she is, though his links are to a different strain of the ideology.

For believers in Dominionism, rule by non-Christians is a sort of sacrilege.

The Christian Reconstructionists tend to be skeptical of Pentecostalism, with its magic, prophesies, speaking in tongues, and wild ecstasies. Certainly, there are overlaps between the traditions—Oral Roberts, where Bachmann studied with Eidsmoe, was a Pentecostal school. But it’s only recently that one group of Pentecostals, the New Apostolic Reformation, has created its own distinct Dominionist movement. And members see Perry as their ticket to power.

“The New Apostles talk about taking dominion over American society in pastoral terms,” wrote Wilder in the Texas Observer. “They refer to the ‘Seven Mountains’ of society: family, religion, arts and entertainment, media, government, education, and business. These are the nerve centers of society that God (or his people) must control.” He quotes a sermon from Tom Schlueter, New Apostolic pastor close to Perry. “We’re going to infiltrate [the government], not run from it. I know why God’s doing what he’s doing ... He’s just simply saying, ‘Tom I’ve given you authority in a governmental authority, and I need you to infiltrate the governmental mountain.”

According to Wilder, members of the New Apostolic Reformation see Perry as their vehicle to claim the “mountain” of government. Some have told Perry that Texas is a “prophet state,” destined, with his leadership, to bring America back to God. The movement was deeply involved in The Response, the massive prayer rally that Perry hosted in Houston earlier this month. “Eight members of The Response ‘leadership team’ are affiliated with the New Apostolic Reformation movement,” wrote Wilder. “The long list of The Response’s official endorses—posted on the event’s website—reads like a Who’s Who of the apostolic-prophetic crowd, including movement founder C. Peter Wagner.”

We have not seen this sort of thing at the highest levels of the Republican Party before. Those of us who wrote about the Christian fundamentalist influence on the Bush administration were alarmed that one of his advisers, Marvin Olasky, was associated with Christian Reconstructionism. It seemed unthinkable, at the time, that an American president was taking advice from even a single person whose ideas were so inimical to democracy. Few of us imagined that someone who actually championed such ideas would have a shot at the White House. It turns out we weren’t paranoid enough. If Bush eroded the separation of church and state, the GOP is now poised to nominate someone who will mount an all-out assault on it. We need to take their beliefs seriously, because they certainly do.

August 14, 2011 10:51pm

And these folks will be the first to disparage Islam or any other religion who does the same as them

Being a fringe religious nut is not illegal. Nor does it disqualify someone from being President.

I think someone that believes he is the resurrection of JHC could beat Obama.

Crown of thorns and all..


This election isn't going to be about religion.


Its going to be about the economy and specifically the 5 plus trillion in debt accrued by the obamanistas come voting time.

The party is over and the democrats have no one to blame but themselves.

The democrats do have their issues and I think could be defeated in the election if the republicans do get a decent candidate. However, electing some crazy fundamentalist isn't the answer and won't fix problems. It will just cause more problems the more they try to have religion interfere in the government.

They can't have religion interfering with the way they govern.

There will be no theocracy in this country.

It s obvious that Obama has no plan to fix the economy. He is letting his wall street cronies dictate economic policy and they get richer and the rest pay the price.

That isn't going to beat anyone in 2012

Obama is going to be back in for sure.

There isn't a legitimate candidate to challenge him. A person would have be crazy to vote for any of them.

Honestly, I am not so sure he'll be elected again. I do think it depends on who the republican candidate is. They can't go with some crazy religious zealot if they want to be taken seriously, though.

Perry is not a nut. He is a moderate governor of a conservative state that is doing far better than the country in general in large degree due to low taxes and general business friendly nature of the state government.

The article is a left wing "hit job" and I am sure we will see many more to come. Perry's name gets put in the title and his picture is posted predominately while the actual article is about other people. The church function was a gathering of many groups and the one featured in the article only had a part to play, they did not organize the event under the direction of Perry as it would have you to believe.

People should learn to recognize propaganda when they see it. Perry makes no excuses for being religious as most past presidents of the US have done. He has done nothing crazy as a governor and it is unlikely he would do anything crazy as a president.

Where were the liberals when Obama was associating with Wright's racist, white hating church?

I fear liberals more than anything

Again there is not a legitimate candidate to challenge Obama.

Even with the displeasure there is out there like mine with Obama, I am going to vote for him again. I haven't seen anyone who can do better.

it wasnt a white hating church, but I agree with you about people being too quick to blame others for what their 'associates' decide to do or say,,,,

Are you saying there's no truth at all to this? Perry is not associated with these people at all?

What about Palin constantly thanking her "prayer warriors?"

Above anything else, this topic is interesting to me. I just can't wrap my head around how these people think.

I feel the same about communists.

How can anyone look at how the 20th century played out and think communism is a good thing..

Thank you for posting this thread. It was a hair-raising interview.

Nobody really knows what Perry really believes (he supported Al Gore in 1988). The Dominionist agenda has been well known by people whole follow it for years. We are all learning about the Tea Party agenda. The three of them form a perfect coalition, You get Perry, you get the whole bunch of them.



No, the election will not be about religion. If Perry were to win the election, the aftermath would be all about religion. Religion in the schools. religion in Government, Religion running business, religion running everything. Read up on apostolic reformation. The agenda is all there.

Today's Gallup poll shows Perry out in front in the polls.

You are making the association the article wanted you to make. However the article actually said nothing about Perry. This is purely a "guilt by association" piece as if Perry is an active member of this group, which he is not. All church groups were invited to this gatherings and many attended. Various people were organizers and these people HELPED.

Perry has been governor for ten years and has plenty of actual history from which to be judged. His religious views, IMHO, are similar to George W. Bush's if that matters. Bush understood the separation of church and state and I am sure Perry does too.

But because someone is a Christian and associate them with the most out-of-the-norm views of one group who attended a large gathering of many groups is simply dishonest. Politics as usual.

Before you continue attacking Perry as a zealot, consider this.

Friday, August 12, 2011
Rick Perry's Christian Faith

Serious students of politics are asking: Did Rick Perry make a mistake by holding a Christian prayer meeting last weekend in Houston?

Let’s stipulate that Perry was making a sincere profession of his faith. There’s nothing very wrong with that.

Yet, some pundits have suggested that the overtly Christian nature of the event might alienate voters who are not Christian.

One might ask whether those who are offended by Perry’s Christian faith were similarly offended by Barack Obama’s twenty years at the feet of Rev. Jeremiah Wright?

Obamaphile pundits have already prepared for that. They have asserted that Perry’s prayer meeting violated the separation of church and state.

Yet, does anyone really doubt that a Jeremiah Wright’s formative influence on the future president of the United States has been anodyne.

Either way, Perry held the event; and it was well attended. The constitution is still in tact.

But Perry is a prospective presidential candidate, so his current actions resonate in ways that perhaps he himself does not intend.

Since the press and the pundits are now making Perry’s religion an issue, won’t they also feel obliged to make the religion of the other candidates an issue?

Who stands to benefit when people start comparing Perry's religious beliefs with those of his principal rival, Mitt Romney?

Also, if Perry’s relationship with religion becomes an issue, won’t the electorate be induced to reconsider Barack Obama’s commitment to religion.

This year Obama failed to issue an Easter Proclamation, even though he has issued proclamations for Earth Day, Cesar Chavez Day, and every Muslim Holiday.

If the press continues to make an issue of Rick Perry’s prayer meeting, it will be natural and normal to consider Barack Obama’s different treatment of different religions.

If Obama issued a proclamation for Muslim holidays but not one for the most important Christian holiday,wasn't he siding with one religion over another?

We know that it’s considered poor form to bring up a candidate’s religion directly. But now, Rick Perry seems to have found a way to direct attention to his opponents’ religious beliefs and practices without saying a word about them.

Maybe it was unintentional, but, then again, maybe it was intentional.

Posted by Stuart Schneiderman at 11:21 AM