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Topic: What is sin, really?
CowboyGH's photo
Fri 09/02/11 01:54 PM



Well Cowboy will we continue?

Do you believe that there is a Prime Creator (God)??

Yes or no.




Sorry for delayed response, went to take a shower. Yes there is one prime sources of all good things.


That is not what I asked.

IS there one Prime Source of all things?

Not simply all "good" things. ALL THINGS IN EXISTENCE.




Yes there is.

no photo
Fri 09/02/11 01:56 PM
NEXT QUESTION:

Where does God dwell?

CowboyGH's photo
Fri 09/02/11 01:59 PM

NEXT QUESTION:

Where does God dwell?


God is everywhere, he is omnipresent.

CowboyGH's photo
Fri 09/02/11 02:06 PM


NEXT QUESTION:

Where does God dwell?


God is everywhere, he is omnipresent.


God is - Omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, and much more.

no photo
Fri 09/02/11 02:08 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Fri 09/02/11 02:08 PM
Then there is no need for any "path" to God.

God is everywhere. God is here now.


no photo
Fri 09/02/11 02:19 PM
...So any path leads to God.

Anywhere you go... there God is.

CowboyGH's photo
Fri 09/02/11 02:38 PM

Then there is no need for any "path" to God.

God is everywhere. God is here now.




Heaven is not omnipresent, and that is where the one path lays. The one path lays to getting to Heaven.

God is everywhere, he is omnipresent. He is there, he is here, I have conversations with him all the time.

no photo
Fri 09/02/11 02:55 PM


Then there is no need for any "path" to God.

God is everywhere. God is here now.




Heaven is not omnipresent, and that is where the one path lays. The one path lays to getting to Heaven.

God is everywhere, he is omnipresent. He is there, he is here, I have conversations with him all the time.


So it is not God you seek. It is heaven?

Abracadabra's photo
Fri 09/02/11 03:26 PM



Then there is no need for any "path" to God.

God is everywhere. God is here now.




Heaven is not omnipresent, and that is where the one path lays. The one path lays to getting to Heaven.

God is everywhere, he is omnipresent. He is there, he is here, I have conversations with him all the time.


So it is not God you seek. It is heaven?


Sure. That's the lust of Christianity.


Do you honestly think these people would care about Jesus at all if they didn't think there was something in it for them?

Try convincing these people that Jesus was a Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva. They don't want to hear anything about that because that would mean that Jesus has nothing to offer them!

If Jesus has nothing to offer them, they lose all interest in the religion immediately.

It's the GIFT of eternal life, or the FEAR of punishment that keeps this religion going.

This is just yet another reason why the religion is clearly false.

Christians require that atheists cannot receive the gift of eternal life simply because they have 'denied' that Jesus is Lord. So behavior alone cannot win this prize.

Yet, clearly if behavior is the criteria for winning the prize then righteous atheists would be God's pride and joy! These would be people who are naturally good simply because they personally enjoy being good, and NOT because they were attempting to appeased a God in order to win a reward.

This God can't be allowed to actually like righteous people who are non-believers.

That's a dead give-away that the religion is nothing more than cultural political propaganda to form a religious cult to keep people under the thumb of a superficial behavioral mandate.

It's man-made politics in the form of religion is all.

And clearly it works far too well. ohwell

Gotta hand it to the people who created it. They created a brainwashing scheme based on a lust for eternal life and a fear of the wrath of God that has many people not only worshiping this religion but actually trying to convince everyone else to buy into it as well.

It's a brainwashing scheme that has successfully brainwashed many of its own victims into becoming hardcore supporters of the religion itself. So it's a self-propagating brainwashing scheme.




CowboyGH's photo
Fri 09/02/11 10:30 PM




Then there is no need for any "path" to God.

God is everywhere. God is here now.




Heaven is not omnipresent, and that is where the one path lays. The one path lays to getting to Heaven.

God is everywhere, he is omnipresent. He is there, he is here, I have conversations with him all the time.


So it is not God you seek. It is heaven?


Sure. That's the lust of Christianity.


Do you honestly think these people would care about Jesus at all if they didn't think there was something in it for them?

Try convincing these people that Jesus was a Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva. They don't want to hear anything about that because that would mean that Jesus has nothing to offer them!

If Jesus has nothing to offer them, they lose all interest in the religion immediately.

It's the GIFT of eternal life, or the FEAR of punishment that keeps this religion going.

This is just yet another reason why the religion is clearly false.

Christians require that atheists cannot receive the gift of eternal life simply because they have 'denied' that Jesus is Lord. So behavior alone cannot win this prize.

Yet, clearly if behavior is the criteria for winning the prize then righteous atheists would be God's pride and joy! These would be people who are naturally good simply because they personally enjoy being good, and NOT because they were attempting to appeased a God in order to win a reward.

This God can't be allowed to actually like righteous people who are non-believers.

That's a dead give-away that the religion is nothing more than cultural political propaganda to form a religious cult to keep people under the thumb of a superficial behavioral mandate.

It's man-made politics in the form of religion is all.

And clearly it works far too well. ohwell

Gotta hand it to the people who created it. They created a brainwashing scheme based on a lust for eternal life and a fear of the wrath of God that has many people not only worshiping this religion but actually trying to convince everyone else to buy into it as well.

It's a brainwashing scheme that has successfully brainwashed many of its own victims into becoming hardcore supporters of the religion itself. So it's a self-propagating brainwashing scheme.








Do you honestly think these people would care about Jesus at all if they didn't think there was something in it for them?


If we were "obedient" for this reason, our actions would be in vein. Thus our actions would be empty, thus our actions would not be heart felt, thus they would be pointless and might as well not have done them.

That's not the reason we obey God, we obey out of love for our father.


If Jesus has nothing to offer them, they lose all interest in the religion immediately.


Not true. Again, we do what we do out of LOVE. We obey out of love. We don't do it for the better of oneself, we do it for our father and to uplift him in what we do. Not for the reward, or the fear of punishment. We do it out of love for our father.

Abracadabra's photo
Sat 09/03/11 12:30 AM
Cowboy wrote:

That's not the reason we obey God, we obey out of love for our father.


I'm sure that you believe this yourself, but I personally don't believe you for two reason:

1. You constantly try to convince other people that they need to believe in your religion and obey God, and that the reason that it is important that they do is this is because if they fail to do it they will lose out on eternal life, which you continually hold out to people as a motivational carrot.

2. If you truly believe what you claim here then you wouldn't bother proselytizing your religion like you. You would realize that only a sincere love of God could possibly work for people. But if that is the case, then they could only win his love by having sincere and natural love for him in the first place.

Thus your constant badgering of people that they need to "obey" this God and satisfy all his commandments and directives would be moot.

In fact, it would be utterly pointless for you to even bring these things up.

You're entire approach would be all wrong.

If you truly believed that it was all about loving God and everything follows solely from then all you would need to do is convince people that this God is a lovable God.

I have never seen you do that.

All you ever do is act like God made a bunch of laws and it's up to us to either obey them or lose out on this supposed "gift" of eternal life.

There is absolutely NOTHING lovable about the in-compassionate and uncaring God that you portray.

You have stated countless times that it's no skin off God's nose if we fail to meet his requirements. We lose and God doesn't even care. laugh

It's entire up to use to EARN this "Gift" of eternal life according to your preachings. And God really doesn't care whether we make it or not.

That doesn't sound like a very "lovable" God to me.

Nor does it sound like people would be trying out for EARNING this "Gift" of eternal life just because they happen to "love" this God.

whoa

In short you 'ministry' (as informal and non-existent as you may claim it to be) sends horribly mixed messages.

1. We must EARN the right to eternal life.
2. It is a GIFT.
3. If you EARN this GIFT for its own reward you will not receive it!
4. Your true motivation must be that you simply LOVE God.
5. You must LOVE this God naturally even though he's a male chauvinist who perverts sexual desires.

It's not an attractive religion, IMHO, and there is nothing "lovable" about the God that you portray.

If this God was a male chauvinist in Biblical Times, and this God is unchanging in his character, then all women can expect to be eternally second class citizens in this God's eternal Heaven.

That's certainly not much for women to look forward to. Nor is it a very attractive reason for women to "LOVE" this male chauvinistic God.

If this God perverts the sexual pleasure of orgasm and proclaims that it is a sin if experienced outside of the pragmatic duty of procreation, then there is absolutely no reason why any human being should expect that this God would change his views on this in Heaven.

In fact, there should really be no need for 'procreation' in heaven so the message here seems to be that this God will frown upon anything that produces great pleasure and doesn't have a profoundly pragmatic use.

So we have absolutely no reason to even believe that the Heaven this God is offering would be a pleasurable experience at all. Clearly this God renounces pleasure as being "LUSTFUL" behavior.

What's to love about this God Cowboy?

If the biblical description of this God is any indication of what this God is like there is no reason to think that he will be any different in "heaven".

If he himself lusts for blood sacrifices and is appeased by blood sacrifices why should we think he will change when we get to heaven?

For all we have to go on this God should be just as screwed up in heaven as he was when dealing with humans on earth. Why should anyone belief he would CHANGE?

If you ask me if I LOVE the God depicted in the Hebrew fables, I can assure you that I most certainly DO NOT. Nor do I see any reason to love this God.

The only thing that could possible make him "lovable" is the mere fact that he has the POWER to create life.

But that doesn't make an entity "lovable", that just gives him a power that we we might actually "love".

I see no reason to "love" the God depicted in the Bible. As far as I can see he was a jerk on far too many occasions. I don't even agree with the way that he handles his problems. I personally dislike him actually.

There's nothing there to "love". At least not as the Hebrews have portrayed him in their stories.

The God they portray isn't even as nice as me!

I have more compassion and wisdom than they gave to the god they created.

There's nothing there to love Cowboy.




msharmony's photo
Sat 09/03/11 12:35 AM
what is sin really,,,,

lets not isolate it to biblical terms

WEBSTER states

sin: a : an offense against religious or moral law

b : an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible <it's a sin to waste food>

c : an often serious shortcoming : fault


2a : transgression of the law of God

b : a vitiated state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God



no photo
Sat 09/03/11 01:05 AM

what is sin really,,,,

lets not isolate it to biblical terms




Webster does not count.

Sin has to be isolated to biblical terms because if it were not for the Bible the term "sin" would not exist or have meaning in this world today.


msharmony's photo
Sat 09/03/11 01:23 AM


what is sin really,,,,

lets not isolate it to biblical terms




Webster does not count.

Sin has to be isolated to biblical terms because if it were not for the Bible the term "sin" would not exist or have meaning in this world today.




I disagree. The word must have had meaning to the people who WROTE and translated the bible, meaning it was part of the language already.

no photo
Sat 09/03/11 01:38 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Sat 09/03/11 01:42 AM



what is sin really,,,,

lets not isolate it to biblical terms




Webster does not count.

Sin has to be isolated to biblical terms because if it were not for the Bible the term "sin" would not exist or have meaning in this world today.




I disagree. The word must have had meaning to the people who WROTE and translated the bible, meaning it was part of the language already.


I speak of today. I don't know how long the word has been around.

I think it started out as meaning disobedience of the master in an ancient master-slave society. Unquestionable obedience was required between master and slave. The master held the power of life and death over the slave because the slave was often a person who was defeated in war and whose life was spared in return for his service as a slave.

(By "ancient master-slave society" I am talking about long before any Biblical society that we know of or have read about.)

I believe in freedom --- not a society of master-slave relationships and terms like "obedience" and "sin."

Freedom is paramount.


msharmony's photo
Sat 09/03/11 01:45 AM
well, terms have the power we give them

I dont have any negative feeling about 'obedience'

anytime I am agreeing to something that has been instructed, I am being 'obedient' and there are many people and situations with people who have the knowledge to give such instruction,,,,


When I train at work , and do what is asked, I am being obedient
When I play a game, and do as the directions state, I am being obedient


agreement doesnt seem like a negative thing to me so long as what is agreed upon is not detrimental to self and others,,,

no photo
Sat 09/03/11 01:51 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Sat 09/03/11 01:51 AM

well, terms have the power we give them

I dont have any negative feeling about 'obedience'

anytime I am agreeing to something that has been instructed, I am being 'obedient' and there are many people and situations with people who have the knowledge to give such instruction,,,,


When I train at work , and do what is asked, I am being obedient
When I play a game, and do as the directions state, I am being obedient


agreement doesnt seem like a negative thing to me so long as what is agreed upon is not detrimental to self and others,,,


When you respect someone's knowledge and you trust them, being obedient is easy and wise.

But blind obedience is foolish. Obedience out of fear is cowardly.


no photo
Sat 09/03/11 01:53 AM

I trust my higher self that speaks to me through my mind and my sixth sense. Do I always listen and obey? No. Not always.


msharmony's photo
Sat 09/03/11 01:54 AM


well, terms have the power we give them

I dont have any negative feeling about 'obedience'

anytime I am agreeing to something that has been instructed, I am being 'obedient' and there are many people and situations with people who have the knowledge to give such instruction,,,,


When I train at work , and do what is asked, I am being obedient
When I play a game, and do as the directions state, I am being obedient


agreement doesnt seem like a negative thing to me so long as what is agreed upon is not detrimental to self and others,,,


When you respect someone's knowledge and you trust them, being obedient is easy and wise.

But blind obedience is foolish. Obedience out of fear is cowardly.





hmmm, I guess blind obedience is foolish if the source is not reliable or trustworthy. If the source is, perfect, than blind obedience isnt as foolish as blind questioning,,,,

no photo
Sat 09/03/11 01:57 AM
I've never heard of "blind questioning." What would that be?

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