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| Topic: Where in the Genesis is Jesus | |
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Cowboy wrote: Not true, no one knows who has a relationship with God or doesn't, unless of course they straight up say it. Outside of that, we know not who is “enlightened” by God or not. This isn't in line with what you actually PREACH. You PREACH that in order to have a relationship with God a person must OBEY God. And according to you that means recognizing Jesus as God and obeying the teachings of Jesus PLUS all the other Christian religious bigotries that Christians like yourself hold out in Jesus' name (like the idea that God hates homosexuality, etc.) Now you're claiming that no one knows who has a relationship with God. Well, if that's true, then you could have no clue whether someone who doesn't believe in Jesus or the Bible at all could have relationship with God because you can have no way of knowing. You PREACH that people are "rejecting God", or "turning away from God", or refusing to LISTEN to the "Word of God" if they reject the Bible. So your PREACHING doesn't match your claims here. It's that's simple. And the poor atheists have to sit on the sidelines and watch all this religious bigotry filling the world with hatred in the name of God, when if everyone would become an atheist we could finally live in peace. Likewise, if everyone became a Christian, we would live in a world full of love. No theivery, no crimes committed, no emotional tormant from anyone, ect. There is no hatred being filled in this world in the name of God. Some may, can't claim for ALL. But say from the Christians in particular. There is no hatred from a “Christian”. Only love. Atheists are not looked down upon, they are not thought to be lesser. They are no different from Christians besides the fact that Christians have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior while the other(s) have not. This doesn't make one a “better” person, just difference in choices my friend. No, that's clearly not true at all. We already see this as plain as the nose on our face. Different Christian denominations and beliefs do not get along with each other. In fact, Catholics and Protestants often don't even consider the others to even be "Christians". It's a highly bigoted religion that is often quite bigoted against it's own self. I've often said that if the whole world were converted to Christianity that would only be the very beginning of the real holy wars. As soon as they realized that there was no one left to convert to "Christianity" they'd immediately start pointing fingers at each other proclaiming that only their form of Christianity is the "True Christianity", and all the other denominations are false. That's the nature of the beast. There could never be a harmonious Christianity ever. The scriptures that it's based on are far too ambiguous to ever be agreed on by everyone, and so it's basically impossible to have a consistent Christianity. Catholicism falling out of protesting Protestants away from "The Body of Christ" which is the Catholic Church, is all the proof we need. It's a done deal. Proven historically beyond a shadow of a doubt. Christianity doesn't have a prayer in the world of ever becoming the single world religion. It never had that potential, and never will. That very delusion and quest is often what makes various factions of this religion so dangerous. They actually STRIVE to achieve that goal. In fact, I was listening to a conversation about this on NPR radio. With the advent of the Internet Christian proselytizing organizations have sprung up everywhere. And they are even in competition with each other. These Christian proselytizing camps are actually focusing on proselyting to the Arab countries with the dream of converting Muslims to Christianity. Just as few years ago they thought they had the upper hand and it would just be a matter of time because the Christians had the upper hand in technology. But now that is changing. China and Russia are siding with the Muslims and arming them with Internet technologies to fight back. Now it appears that the Christians are going to lose that proselytizing war and that the Muslims are actually going to spread Islam at a far faster rate that the Christians can hope to compete with. It's become and "information proselytizing war". And the current prediction is that the Muslims will ultimately win. So you better start studying up on Islam.  You PREACH that in order to have a relationship with God a person must OBEY God. And according to you that means recognizing Jesus as God and obeying the teachings of Jesus PLUS all the other Christian religious bigotries that Christians like yourself hold out in Jesus' name (like the idea that God hates homosexuality, etc.) Now you're claiming that no one knows who has a relationship with God. You're misinterpretating what I said. I was speaking as in I have absolutely no idea if you have a relationship with God, if msharmony has a relationship with God, if anyone else has a relationship with God. That is not my place to make such a judgement. And no God doesn't “hate” homosexuals. God hates no one. |
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Cowboy wrote: And no God doesn't “hate” homosexuals. God hates no one. I never said he did. You claim that God hates "homosexuality", not homosexuals. Supposedly homosexuality is the "sin" and God hates sin, not the sinners. But not to worry because the blood of Jesus can easily wash away homosexuality. And God will replace the heart of the homosexual with a heart that prefers male-chauvinism instead. It will all come out in the wash. In the meantime, don't forget to study up on Islam as it will most likely be the dominant world religion in the not-to-distant future. 
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Cowboy wrote: And no God doesn't “hate” homosexuals. God hates no one. I never said he did. You claim that God hates "homosexuality", not homosexuals. Supposedly homosexuality is the "sin" and God hates sin, not the sinners. But not to worry because the blood of Jesus can easily wash away homosexuality. And God will replace the heart of the homosexual with a heart that prefers male-chauvinism instead. It will all come out in the wash. In the meantime, don't forget to study up on Islam as it will most likely be the dominant world religion in the not-to-distant future. God "hates" nothing. God doesn't hate homosexuals, God doesn't hate homosexuality. God disapproves of this action, but that doesn't mean he loves them less then the rest of the world. |
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Cowboy wrote: And no God doesn't “hate” homosexuals. God hates no one. I never said he did. You claim that God hates "homosexuality", not homosexuals. Supposedly homosexuality is the "sin" and God hates sin, not the sinners. But not to worry because the blood of Jesus can easily wash away homosexuality. And God will replace the heart of the homosexual with a heart that prefers male-chauvinism instead. It will all come out in the wash. In the meantime, don't forget to study up on Islam as it will most likely be the dominant world religion in the not-to-distant future. God "hates" nothing. God doesn't hate homosexuals, God doesn't hate homosexuality. God disapproves of this action, but that doesn't mean he loves them less then the rest of the world. I read all about God's love in the Old Testament. For God so loved the world that he drowned everyone, including little babies. With a love like that, who needs hate?
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Question: "What does it mean that God draws us to salvation?"  it means there is no "Free Will" all that followers are required to do is to have faith in the word of God from what is written in the scriptures, but once God personally intervene in any way especially to draw you unto him then it would automatically cancels out any faith or free will a personal intervention by God in any way is the same as a direct command, and once given that command, if you do not follow it at that point in time but need to be drawn in first then it becomes disobedience which is the one sure thing that will place you on the Yahweh to Hell this is one example why there is no "Free Will" |
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Jesus just had not become Incarnate yet in the old testament......but Jesus has ALWAYS been....Jesus is I AM.... MorningSong... neither I nor you nor Jesus had become incarnated during the times of the old testament it simply means that we were all still a part of God until we were later born and became separated from God and turned into Flesh ..but it doesn't mean that me nor you nor Jesus is God PROOF OF THIS IS:"only God knows the time of judgement day" because I watch the syfy channel is why I might have a clue about the time of judgement and Jesus admitted that he doesn't know....now the question becomes...do you know? neither you nor Jesus nor I know the time of judgement day because we are not God |
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but the OP asked if Jesus is in the Old Testament Op, the answer is no I know.... but John 1:1 used deception in an attempt to claim that he was but what John 1:1 failed to explain is that in the beginning we all was still a part of God and therefore everything that God had created he create through all of us since we were all still a part of him this is why In The Beginning we all was "The Word"...we all was "I AM"....we all was before Abraham |
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What is mysticism? Mysticism is the acceptance of allegations without evidence or proof, either apart from or against the evidence of one’s senses and one’s reason. Mysticism is the claim to some non-sensory, non-rational, non-definable, non-identifiable means of knowledge, such as “instinct,” “intuition,” “revelation,” or any form of “just knowing.”
Reason is the perception of reality, and rests on a single axiom: the Law of Identity. Mysticism is the claim to the perception of some other reality—other than the one in which we live—whose definition is only that it is not natural, it is supernatural, and is to be perceived by some form of unnatural or supernatural means. ____________ The motive of all the attacks on man’s rational faculty—from any quarter, in any of the endless variations, under the verbal dust of all the murky volumes—is a single, hidden premise: the desire to exempt consciousness from the law of identity. The hallmark of a mystic is the savagely stubborn refusal to accept the fact that consciousness, like any other existent, possesses identity, that it is a faculty of a specific nature, functioning through specific means. While the advance of civilization has been eliminating one area of magic after another, the last stand of the believers in the miraculous consists of their frantic attempts to regard identity as the disqualifying element of consciousness. The implicit, but unadmitted premise of the neo-mystics of modern philosophy, is the notion that only an ineffable consciousness can acquire a valid knowledge of reality, that “true” knowledge has to be causeless, i.e., acquired without any means of cognition. http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/mysticism.html To exempt the very primary things of Existence from Reason is a dangerous Game,as History has proven over and again! |
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Cowboy wrote: And no God doesn't “hate” homosexuals. God hates no one. I never said he did. You claim that God hates "homosexuality", not homosexuals. Supposedly homosexuality is the "sin" and God hates sin, not the sinners. But not to worry because the blood of Jesus can easily wash away homosexuality. And God will replace the heart of the homosexual with a heart that prefers male-chauvinism instead. It will all come out in the wash. In the meantime, don't forget to study up on Islam as it will most likely be the dominant world religion in the not-to-distant future. God "hates" nothing. God doesn't hate homosexuals, God doesn't hate homosexuality. God disapproves of this action, but that doesn't mean he loves them less then the rest of the world. Cowboy...if God doesn't hate homosexuals or homosexuality as you just claimed...then that mean that God Love homosexuals and homosexuality which makes for a contradiction also as I stated earlier,... Eve was born from God performing a homosexual act with Adam by using one of Adam's Ribs to reproduce into Eve ...this is homosexuality and God was the first to create it any form of human reproduction is considered to be sex, |
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Cowboy wrote: And no God doesn't “hate” homosexuals. God hates no one. I never said he did. You claim that God hates "homosexuality", not homosexuals. Supposedly homosexuality is the "sin" and God hates sin, not the sinners. But not to worry because the blood of Jesus can easily wash away homosexuality. And God will replace the heart of the homosexual with a heart that prefers male-chauvinism instead. It will all come out in the wash. In the meantime, don't forget to study up on Islam as it will most likely be the dominant world religion in the not-to-distant future. God "hates" nothing. God doesn't hate homosexuals, God doesn't hate homosexuality. God disapproves of this action, but that doesn't mean he loves them less then the rest of the world. I read all about God's love in the Old Testament. For God so loved the world that he drowned everyone, including little babies. With a love like that, who needs hate? this is why the term "Love" has no meaning....religion preach that you are suppose to love everyone even your enemies....but if you love your enemies then why are they your enemies..... the line between love and hate falls as they merge into one concept... one emotion ....love turns sociopathic this is why the more religious you are, the more delusional and sociopathic you become AN EXAMPLE: Jesus is suppose to be Love...but his second coming is to kill all those he claim to love ...this is clearly sociopathic behavior as love falls into the same realm as hate |
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Funches wrote: AN EXAMPLE: Jesus is suppose to be Love...but his second coming is to kill all those he claim to love ...this is clearly sociopathic behavior as love falls into the same realm as hate Well, not only that, but look at the reason he's supposedly going to kill the vast majority of them. Simply because they didn't believe in outrageous tales! Where is there any morality in that?  This deity would need to be the most immoral entity that ever existed. |
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Conrad Posted: Reason is the perception of reality, and rests on a single axiom: the Law of Identity. Mysticism is the claim to the perception of some other reality—other than the one in which we live—whose definition is only that it is not natural, it is supernatural, and is to be perceived by some form of unnatural or supernatural means. I see a fundamental problem in the above statements. Whoever wrote this seems to think that they have a really good grasp on "reality". They say, "Mysticism is the claim to the perception of some other reality—other than the one in which we live" This implies that the author of these words believes that his or her own perception of reality is indeed "the one in which we live". However, the truth is that there does not exist a well-defined and well-known secular reality. That very assumption right there is a mistaken assumption. Science most certainly doesn't have a clear well-defined understanding of "reality". On the contrary, modern scientists today are toying with a very larger scope of potential models for reality. Most of these models include truly bizarre things, like unseen hidden dimensions, and potentially forces as well. In fact, scientists are seeking a Higgs field that they have no clue even exists in "reality". They are proposing things such a multi-verses, instead of a single universe. There is much that they do not understand about the nature of "reality". Therefore to even speak in terms of "reason" being associated with some type of well-defined "reality" is a totally misguided idea in its own right. There is no clear-cut well-defined secular reality to believe in. Some fairly prominent scientists are actually taking quite seriously the idea that our universe may very well be some sort of computer-generated holographic reality. They even have mathematical models that explain how this could potentially be accomplished within the laws of known physics. The entanglement recognized by Quantum Mechanics also opens a huge door to very strange non-local realities that are far different from what many secularists might consider to be "reasonable" based on conventional ideas of physics they are used to thinking about. A lot of these people don't even truly appreciate the far-reaching implications of Quantum Mechanics. Scientists who are in-the-know, in terms of information science, and principles of Quantum Mechanics, recognize that the entire universe may not be "physical" at all, but rather it's may actually be based purely on "information". According to Quantum Mechanics, "information" permeates all of space. Even the most empty voids of complete vacuum are teaming with quantum information that actually has physically measurable affects, yet it has no concrete physical properties that we normally associate with "physical reality". Ghosts exist, in things like Dark Energy. Matter that has a gravitation affect on the universe, yet is quite 'ghost-like' in terms of any other physical properties. The very notion that there exists a "Reasonable Reality", versus a hypothetical "Mystical Reality", it truly a non-supportable idea. We simply do not have a concrete understanding of "Reality" to even speak in terms of a "Reasonable Reality". So when someone says something like, "Mysticism is the claim to the perception of some other reality—other than the one in which we live" What are they talking about? Just what "reality" do they think we live in? Do they have a concrete explanation for "Reality". I don't think so. So the whole statement becomes meaningless. "Other than the one in which we live"? And which one would that be?  The very idea that someone thinks they know what constitutes reality is a folly right there. |
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Cowboy wrote: And no God doesn't “hate” homosexuals. God hates no one. I never said he did. You claim that God hates "homosexuality", not homosexuals. Supposedly homosexuality is the "sin" and God hates sin, not the sinners. But not to worry because the blood of Jesus can easily wash away homosexuality. And God will replace the heart of the homosexual with a heart that prefers male-chauvinism instead. It will all come out in the wash. In the meantime, don't forget to study up on Islam as it will most likely be the dominant world religion in the not-to-distant future. God "hates" nothing. God doesn't hate homosexuals, God doesn't hate homosexuality. God disapproves of this action, but that doesn't mean he loves them less then the rest of the world. Cowboy...if God doesn't hate homosexuals or homosexuality as you just claimed...then that mean that God Love homosexuals and homosexuality which makes for a contradiction also as I stated earlier,... Eve was born from God performing a homosexual act with Adam by using one of Adam's Ribs to reproduce into Eve ...this is homosexuality and God was the first to create it any form of human reproduction is considered to be sex, No contradiction. You don't have to "hate" something to not approve of it. And again, no Eve being made from the rib of adam in no possible way could be "homosexual". For again, there was no "Sex". |
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Cowboy wrote: And no God doesn't “hate” homosexuals. God hates no one. I never said he did. You claim that God hates "homosexuality", not homosexuals. Supposedly homosexuality is the "sin" and God hates sin, not the sinners. But not to worry because the blood of Jesus can easily wash away homosexuality. And God will replace the heart of the homosexual with a heart that prefers male-chauvinism instead. It will all come out in the wash. In the meantime, don't forget to study up on Islam as it will most likely be the dominant world religion in the not-to-distant future. God "hates" nothing. God doesn't hate homosexuals, God doesn't hate homosexuality. God disapproves of this action, but that doesn't mean he loves them less then the rest of the world. I read all about God's love in the Old Testament. For God so loved the world that he drowned everyone, including little babies. With a love like that, who needs hate? this is why the term "Love" has no meaning....religion preach that you are suppose to love everyone even your enemies....but if you love your enemies then why are they your enemies..... the line between love and hate falls as they merge into one concept... one emotion ....love turns sociopathic this is why the more religious you are, the more delusional and sociopathic you become AN EXAMPLE: Jesus is suppose to be Love...but his second coming is to kill all those he claim to love ...this is clearly sociopathic behavior as love falls into the same realm as hate but if you love your enemies then why are they your enemies Because those people chose to be your enemies through their actions and what not. They choose to do evil things to you. but his second coming is to kill all those he claim to love What are you talking about? Jesus isn't coming back to kill anyone. |
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Funches wrote: AN EXAMPLE: Jesus is suppose to be Love...but his second coming is to kill all those he claim to love ...this is clearly sociopathic behavior as love falls into the same realm as hate Well, not only that, but look at the reason he's supposedly going to kill the vast majority of them. Simply because they didn't believe in outrageous tales! Where is there any morality in that? This deity would need to be the most immoral entity that ever existed. He's not killing anyone. He's giving eternal life to those who earned it. |
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Funches wrote: AN EXAMPLE: Jesus is suppose to be Love...but his second coming is to kill all those he claim to love ...this is clearly sociopathic behavior as love falls into the same realm as hate Well, not only that, but look at the reason he's supposedly going to kill the vast majority of them. Simply because they didn't believe in outrageous tales! Where is there any morality in that? This deity would need to be the most immoral entity that ever existed. He's not killing anyone. He's giving eternal life to those who earned it. Eternal life is earned by believing in absurdly outrageous rumors about gods who are appeased by blood sacrifices? Sorry Cowboy, that doesn't work for me. |
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Funches wrote: AN EXAMPLE: Jesus is suppose to be Love...but his second coming is to kill all those he claim to love ...this is clearly sociopathic behavior as love falls into the same realm as hate Well, not only that, but look at the reason he's supposedly going to kill the vast majority of them. Simply because they didn't believe in outrageous tales! Where is there any morality in that? This deity would need to be the most immoral entity that ever existed. He's not killing anyone. He's giving eternal life to those who earned it. Eternal life is earned by believing in absurdly outrageous rumors about gods who are appeased by blood sacrifices? Sorry Cowboy, that doesn't work for me. anything of yesterday is a rumour. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Mon 11/28/11 11:01 AM
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He's not killing anyone. He's giving eternal life to those who earned it. Eternal life is NOT "earned" . Been thru this over and over and over and over again.....not going there again, Cowboy.  |
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Funches wrote: AN EXAMPLE: Jesus is suppose to be Love...but his second coming is to kill all those he claim to love ...this is clearly sociopathic behavior as love falls into the same realm as hate Well, not only that, but look at the reason he's supposedly going to kill the vast majority of them. Simply because they didn't believe in outrageous tales! Where is there any morality in that? This deity would need to be the most immoral entity that ever existed. since Flesh and Blood can not inherit the kingdom of God, Jesus will be forced to kill those that do believe in him in the rapture and those that don't believe in him at Armagaddon ....it's an extermination of the human race under the flag of Love |
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Cowboy wrote: And no God doesn't “hate” homosexuals. God hates no one. I never said he did. You claim that God hates "homosexuality", not homosexuals. Supposedly homosexuality is the "sin" and God hates sin, not the sinners. But not to worry because the blood of Jesus can easily wash away homosexuality. And God will replace the heart of the homosexual with a heart that prefers male-chauvinism instead. It will all come out in the wash. In the meantime, don't forget to study up on Islam as it will most likely be the dominant world religion in the not-to-distant future. God "hates" nothing. God doesn't hate homosexuals, God doesn't hate homosexuality. God disapproves of this action, but that doesn't mean he loves them less then the rest of the world. Cowboy...if God doesn't hate homosexuals or homosexuality as you just claimed...then that mean that God Love homosexuals and homosexuality which makes for a contradiction also as I stated earlier,... Eve was born from God performing a homosexual act with Adam by using one of Adam's Ribs to reproduce into Eve ...this is homosexuality and God was the first to create it any form of human reproduction is considered to be sex, No contradiction. You don't have to "hate" something to not approve of it. in religion isn't "not approve of" also slang for "burn for all eternity" ...but yet God loves those while he roast them on an open fire ...this is the hallmark of a sociopath ... |
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