Yes very true and as mentioned in my previous post. The only way/reason these other beliefs fall short of the glory of God is they do not praise Jesus. Jesus is the ONLY begotten child of God. Jesus is the path to God our father who art in heaven. Without Jesus no one will get to heaven.

So?

That doesn't give the Christians the right to belittle or condemn other faiths for not putting Jesus "first".

As a matter of fact, Jesus never even requested to be placed "first". He even said that he will not judge anyone for not even believing in him or his words.

In fact, if you put Jesus before God, then you have broken the first of the Ten Commandments!

This is the greatest sin of Christianity. They try to put Jesus before God!

Shame on them!

That's totally irrelevant.

If you place Jesus before God you're making a grave error yourself.

Jesus never asked anyone to worship or praise him. Where do you get that idea from?

John 14:6 
 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


John 12:48 
 48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Giving praise is merely giving thanks. Jesus did say to be thankful. And no one's putting Jesus in front of God. What is more important, the hospital or the ability to get to the hospital?

As usual if you take the Hebrew writings literally they are in grave contradiction with themselves.

John 14:6 has Jesus saying that no man cometh unto the Father but by him.

But then John 12:48 has Jesus saying that anyone who does not accept his words will have someone judge them in the last day.

Well, there would be no need to be "judged" at all if there was no way to get to the the Creator but though Jesus.

Therefore these two verses are in grave contradiction with one another. Which is typical of these fables.

Therefore there must be an error somewhere.

My resolution to this obvious contradiction is quite simple.

To use your own analogy, think of Jesus as someone who is giving directions to the hospital. You must follow those directions to get there. But anyone can give you those same directions.

So John 14:6 must necessarily contain an error in translation. If Jesus said something along these lines he most likely said, "No man can get to the Creator buy by the things I teach"

This is something that any Buddhist would say.

It's like me giving you directions to get to the hospital. You can ask other people for directions too. And they may or may not give you the correct direction. But I know that I gave you the correct directions, so I can say to you that, "No man gets to the hospital but via my directions", because the directions I gave are correct.

That's all there is to that.

You're trying to demand an extremely 'verbatim" interpretation of extremely ancient doctrines that have been transcribed and translated so many times it would be a miracle beyond miracles if they contained the precisely same meaning as when they had first been written. Moreover, even on they day they were written down there were nothing more than hearsay by the author's own confession. So there's absolutely no reason to expect them to be perfectly correct in a verbatim sense in the first place.

The blatant contradictions between John 14:6 and John 12:48 prove that an error has occurred. Both of those verses cannot simultaneously be true as written verbatim. So there necessarily has to be an error somewhere.

There would be no need to judge people who didn't accept the words of Jesus if that was the "ONLY WAY" to get to God.

So clearly the mere fact that Jesus speaks of other ways of being judged proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that John 14:6 is just a bad translation, or a bad hearsay rumor, whichever you prefer.

Abra, you already know the way to God. Don't worry about dogma.

There are a lot of people throughout history that I would very much like to thank. I personally see no reason to thank Jesus based on the gospels. According to the gospels he didn't do anything for me specifically. Just the same I would still have much respect for what he tried do do for other people.

I'm sure if we ever met in person we would have great mutual respect for each other.

So there's nothing in my spirituality that disrespects Jesus. On the contrary, I actually use Jesus as a spiritual archetype in my religious paradigm. So in that sense, I do "praise" Jesus.

Does that make me a "Christian" by your definition?

Are you happy now.

In fact, in my paradigm Jesus just coincidentally happens to be the first human (after myself of course) on my spiritual path. That actually worked out that way because I begin my path with Capricorn and I'm using Jesus as the spiritual archetype for Capricorn. So he's the first to greet me in the path, and he also gets the honor of pointing the spiritual way as well.

It just worked out that way because I decided to start my year with the winter solstice and I feel that Jesus was a great archetype for Capricorn.

Do you know how many or ever seen any of these TV ministers who predict stuff like this like TBN and CBN and then when it does not happen make excuses to why and stay right in the position that they have been in?

Is a false Prophet suppose to lead the people? Shalom..Miles

There was never a time when I was "lost" in the first place.

Why would I need directions to get where I've always been?

Jesus's missing years are mysterious to many people. Some say he went to Egypt and others as far as India. I personally believe he was in India and learned a new religion or philosophy (buddhism) as a Jewish man. With this knowledge he returned and tried to teach what he learned onto his people which astonishingly created a large following. I say this for many scholars question the similarities of the teachings Jesus has in comparison to Buddha. When this part of history was created it made the Romans and the Jews very nervous at the time to the point that they felt their religions were threatened. Both parties agreed to nail him on a cross as of many more followers to warn to not follow this movement. I want to warn that this is just a personal belief and not historical evidence. It is just a hypothesis of what could have happen no matter how ridiculous or realistic it may sound to each individual who is reading this.

Please bear with me okay!.....

The bible was written by clever historians from different time periods. Do you agree with this?

There is so much confusion when it comes to the interpretations of the bible (including prophecies) that there are now over thousands of denominations of the same work creating more prejudice, acts of hatred, superstitions, and disagreements amongst each faction. If you don't agree have a discussion about the bible with a Catholic and a Protestant or a Lutheran and a Baptist. What I am trying to say is some believe that Jesus didn't personally write the bible...there is not even a significant evidence of his existence except for a few entries by Roman officials. If he survived, existed, and was a god or the son of god then why the confusion and why the ordeals of understanding the rules of how to live a good life amongst others on this planet? Why are other religions that existed before Christianity being disregarded. Is it a competition amongst gods? I just think if such miracles and power existed at one time he could have left a more peaceful legacy that truly works for us homo sapiens with limited knowledge on the matter. I just feel that today the competition continues and we are going in the wrong direction when it comes to such belief systems.

When we look at the trillions about trillions of light years of space with various solar systems I wonder why we as a primitive species believe that everything started in a small location in the Middl East to deserve the reputation as the origins of creation. Could it be possible that our existence can be created by an alien species instead? A meteorite billions of years ago? Some scientists believe it to be true.

Well I wrote more then I needed and probably went way off topic when it comes to the prophecies and I apologize ahead for this. I just wanted to open more dialogue and afterthoughts on "prophecies". If you believe in a "faith" and rules from a bible or any other holy book or possess a "Logical" scientific mind opened to other ideas let me know why the human species needs prophecies in the first place. Do you think it is important? Is it necessary to follow one in the 21st century. Should new ones be created or should one follow the ones written thousands a years ago or should we just follow our own initiatives that we believe personally to be good for our soul.

Thank you for allowing me to post for the first time. I am anticipating your wisdom and knowledge on the matter. Also I will have a photo up as soon as I figure out how to!

greeneyeman...

what a well written post!


This is where things get tricky...do you have a cyber flak jacket?


My personal belief structures sit far from any of the factions of a christ or godhead...although I list Tao/buddhism as a religion....it is the closest that sits well for me..not contains me.

Prophecies...human need for order, and to remove responsibility..I sit with amusement reading the interpretations of the Mayan's calendar...and that once again the end is nigh..and the myriad of justifications of why whose religion is right...

is it an inherant need for an end date?...a sociological constraint placed upon us to keep some form of governance?


I can't reconcile any account of 'in the beginning'....because I wasn't there...well not in this consciousness anyways...now can I reconcile any of the 'in the end'...as I am not there yet either.

Prophecies helped manage hierarchal societies...'If you don't do this....this is gonna happen'..etc etc...

I believe many people globally have moved away from the previous fashionable christianity....as will in some time in the future the current trend of Muslim...

you can't eat a book.

I understand what you are saying.

But consider facts.

Thier is no facts what so ever thier is life elsewhere.. That is only in our imagination. untill facts of a life form higher than a Human being is found.. Its all speculative and fables of the day.

The scriptures even speak of this when Knowledge is increased. thats prophesy right thier..

Gen 1:1 - 1 Tim 1:7

As I urged you when I went into Macedonia — remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than holy edification which is in faith. 5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.
NKJV


then when it speaks of fables tells us why we should not believe these fables.. they draw us away from being all we can be.

5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith,

But those who prefer to make up thier own TRUTH/ fables we are told about thier real identities..

6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.


Idle talk.. not facts.. speculation.. not science. they are ignorant of life itself.

Now a place in the middle east does not mean much?

Then why has Jerusalem been the mindset for millinium as a Very Special place?

Possession is 9/10ths of the law.

Then possesing Jerusalem seems to be a key figure of life on Planet earth.

In any court you would have to say Jerusalem is Forever the Spiritual city of the Universe for thier is no other evidence that it is not.

Thats not speculation thats the laws of nature itself. Blessings of Shalom..Miles
Whats wrong with that.. That is the purpose of commandment/s.

Miles.....no it isn't....it is not a law of nature....it's a law of common precedent...

Indigenous Australians do not recognise jerusalem as the centre of the universe...

Native Americans, Canadians, Afrikans, Malayans, Mayans, New Zealnd Maoris, Papua New Guineans...don't either...


you shot yourself in the foot there, buddy...

Actually the bible does not say its the center of the universe. but this is what man contends it is so they fight thier own imaginations that was never thier.. New Age Fables.

But considering that the majority of Humans for the ages considers Jerusalem a Holy Place then the Law of Nature says it is. Just like if we drop a ball off a tall building the Law of Nature says it will fall..Blessings..Miles

I guess there is nothing wrong with Jerusalem being the Spiritual City of the Universe or Universes or Galaxies and beyond but wouldn't that make it irrelevant if archaelogists have found evidence of first human life elsewhere on the planet away from the Middle East. Wouldn't the first species of humans (wherever it is located in Africa or maybe somewhere else that we have discovered yet) be credited as the first creations or origins of our species and perhaps creators of a God or an Alien Species through accident. I mean it questions how we evolved in the first place...of course the Bible will say Adam and Eve was planted by gods hands, but exactly where?

Also we could question if there were other planets that harbor life that were created before Earth with cities, towns, or even villages of a species...wouldn't they believe they are the center of it all or the Spiritual City of the Universe or are they irrelevant. Will we know more about this in the future or is there a bigger picture that we are missing in general?

It surely is a interesting prospect of questions truly hard to answer. I mean I am sure some have an absolute answer or belief system and that is great. I like to hear them of course, yet when such answers occur we have additional questions or even skeptiscm. I guess the Greek Philosopher Plato is fault for this!

For example our previous poster Jess642 (thank you for the compliment by the way) indicates there are so many other cultures that didn't or don't recognize the bible or even the torah (that tell in their own words about the topic) even when these religions just evolved or begun. Prophecies, Rules, Startings....each have a story. Which one is true? Which one is not?

There has to be a deeper meaning to this all that we possibly can't know unless we were actually there to witness it. There has to be somekind of evidence that would convince the entire population to suddenly believe. Instead we remain oblivious ( not all of course) just me probably! lol ...about a deeper meaning to how it all started and for what purpose.

Anyway I didn't expect at such late hours to get replies by such intellectual individuals! Bravo and thank you for your wisdom!

Yea thier a Huge disservice by the religions of the day. the bible says almost the whole world is decieved. We can see this if we truely look for no one ever wants to be wrong.. Yet the scriptures refers to us as children on a learning destination of Heaven on Earth.

Adam and Eve were not the 1st human species.. like you said what about all the evidence. yet what we do see in the beginning is Man as being the Head Species with the Breath of Yahweh enters him.. from the beginning Yahshua said it was not so.. then The Breath of Yahweh as a loud sounding wind comes from Heaven and men speak or hear in thier native languages the Wonderful works of Yahweh.

The Spirit being given back to man to achieve for himself as they were before the languages were seperated at the Tower of babel.

From the beginning it says..

Gen 2:7

7 And Yahweh Elohim formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
NKJV


Yahweh breathed into this man he had formed. why should we believe all man had intelligence.. we see here if we read more he imediately understood language. not a Babe growing up but formed like no man before. This is different than primal man found in Africa and elsewhere.

The spirit of Acts 2.. the word for breath in Gen 2:7

neshamah

OT:5397 neshamah (nesh-aw-maw'); from OT:5395; a puff, i.e. wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect. or (concretely) an animal:


KJV - blast, (that) breath (-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Surely we cxan see if man was made from the dust of the earth that the Breath of life was Devine Inspiration.

just like the age of the earth. Hardliners contend the earth was made around 6000 years ago.

OT:776

OT:776 'erets (eh'-rets); from an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land):


KJV - common, country, earth, field, ground, land, natins, way, wilderness, world.


erets translated here as earth.


Gen 1:1-2

In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of Elohim was hovering over the face of the waters.
NKJV


which did he create 1st? does not say.. the earth is without form and void. it was dark.

Ice age?

does not say. speculation.. does not even say when.

Man has made these things up. he does not want to look and see. he already knows best.

the 7 days of creation/ creation of what?

Erets translated earth says it could be anything. a part of a land even.

thats not popular though. tradition is what matters no matter what.

we have 6 days Yahweh made the earth and all that is in them.

I wonder if this is really saying days.

else where when refering to the earths rest it says years..

Lev 25:3-4
3 Six years you shall sow your field, and six years you shall prune your vineyard, and gather its fruit; 4 but in the seventh year there shall be a sabbath of solemn rest for the land, a sabbath to Yahweh.

here we see 6 years the land works and the 7th it rests.

A sabbath to Yahweh..

Gen 2:1-3

Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day Elohim ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then Elohim blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which Elohim had created and made.
NKJV

Why must the land rest every 7th year? I see it as a valid question of creation IMO.. Blessings..Miles

NKJV

lol you're funny Funches. There is absolutely no contradiction there. I'll break it down for you.

14:6 states no one comes to the father but by him.
12:48 states hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

12:48 would be the same as a law stating if you are caught stealing a car, you will serve 10 years in prison. Or something along the lines if you are caught speeding there will be a $100 dollar fine. Do you know what a judgment is? You will be able to defend yourself at judgment day, you will be able to back your side up, give reasoning for what you did or didn't do to try to justify yourself. It's not a "sentencing", it is a JUDGMENT. There will be no need for a judgment on someone whom did not accept Jesus as lord and savior for their fate is already told eg., the word I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

That is a interesting question indeed. Why must the land rest every 7th year? A question I cannot answer yet I am sure there are many who can!

I know the Mayans had a agricultural system to where they had to rest the land every other year to keep the land fertile. I have recently watched it on PBS about how every other year they would grow and not grow as much food to give the land some chance to recuperate. Today farmers in this region continue this tradition as we speak.

I have also heard that although it is mentioned that a a day is interpreted as 1000 years or longer. There are many possibilities of interpreting the doctrines of the bible or other religious works. With so many denominations there is no wonder there is so much confusion today.

Also those that sacrificed their lifes to translate the original works of the Bible to English or German also may have misinterpreted some of the pages unintentionally or intentionally.

Martin Luther for the German translations changed many ideas also when he nailed his new thesis's at the Wittenberg Castle.

Cowboy ...it wasn't me that wrote the post...but heck I'm up for the challenge...and I bet I can make you contradict that passage


according to what you just posted all babies go to Hell ...