Topic: Why do some people need religion?
CowboyGH's photo
Sun 04/17/11 05:58 PM

And if you believe them to be fables, as we know you do, there is no need to state it over and over and over and over. We're all well aware you see them as fables.



He states them over and over because you present your beliefs as TRUTH OVER AND OVER.

We know what you believe. There is no need to state it over and over and over. We are all well aware that you believe what you believe.




What I state is different with the different discussions.

no photo
Sun 04/17/11 05:59 PM
The way you, cowboy, state your beliefs, you INVITE people to challenge you. So stop whining when they do and stop accusing them of attacking your beliefs. You can believe what ever you want. We don't really care what you chose to believe.

But when you state them as facts, you invite controversy. So you are getting exactly what you ask for.

CowboyGH's photo
Sun 04/17/11 06:03 PM

The way you, cowboy, state your beliefs, you INVITE people to challenge you. So stop whining when they do and stop accusing them of attacking your beliefs. You can believe what ever you want. We don't really care what you chose to believe.

But when you state them as facts, you invite controversy. So you are getting exactly what you ask for.


Someone not believing as I do is fine.

I state Jesus is the only begotten child of God.

Next person says, nah he was a Buddhist, his teachings were right in line with Buddhists.

That right there is PERFECT. No insults, no downgrading of another's beliefs. No denouncing them to "fables, fairy tells ect". Just two separate parties with two separate views of it.

no photo
Sun 04/17/11 06:15 PM
I don't think anyone stated for a fact that Jesus was a Buddhist.

But if your stubborn pride prevents you from saying,

"I believe that Jesus is the only begotten child of God."

and you insist on stating:

"Jesus is the only begotten child of God!"

Then you can surly expect to draw controversy into your experience.

You attract it. You create it. It is the Law of attraction, the first law of the universe.

Therefore you have no cause to complain about feeling insulted and trying to correct other people's reactions.


CowboyGH's photo
Sun 04/17/11 06:57 PM

I don't think anyone stated for a fact that Jesus was a Buddhist.

But if your stubborn pride prevents you from saying,

"I believe that Jesus is the only begotten child of God."

and you insist on stating:

"Jesus is the only begotten child of God!"

Then you can surly expect to draw controversy into your experience.

You attract it. You create it. It is the Law of attraction, the first law of the universe.

Therefore you have no cause to complain about feeling insulted and trying to correct other people's reactions.




You missed the point entirely. I'll give another example.

I state Jesus is the only begotten child of God.

Someone else states that Jesus never even existed.

That would be fine again. And again it becomes insulting when people use insulting words such a Hebrew fables, fairy tells, ect. That is my entire point. Weather one believes or not is moot. It's about the wording and how they express it.

Kleisto's photo
Sun 04/17/11 07:08 PM


I don't think anyone stated for a fact that Jesus was a Buddhist.

But if your stubborn pride prevents you from saying,

"I believe that Jesus is the only begotten child of God."

and you insist on stating:

"Jesus is the only begotten child of God!"

Then you can surly expect to draw controversy into your experience.

You attract it. You create it. It is the Law of attraction, the first law of the universe.

Therefore you have no cause to complain about feeling insulted and trying to correct other people's reactions.




You missed the point entirely. I'll give another example.

I state Jesus is the only begotten child of God.

Someone else states that Jesus never even existed.

That would be fine again. And again it becomes insulting when people use insulting words such a Hebrew fables, fairy tells, ect. That is my entire point. Weather one believes or not is moot. It's about the wording and how they express it.


You're still not realizing that when you state something as absolute truth, you are insulting them in the same way you feel insulted.

no photo
Sun 04/17/11 07:11 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Sun 04/17/11 07:27 PM
No cowboy, I did NOT miss the point.

You are continually missing the point.

You are trying to dictate and control other people's reactions and words by complaining and claiming to be "insulted."

HOW a person responds to your proclamations and statements is not under your control.

The only thing that is under your control is how YOU say things. You cannot control how other people say things or how other people express themselves.

If you take offense that is just "you" taking offense. It is not anyone's fault but yours that you take offense. You are trying to complain and blame someone else and chastise them for how they respond to you. That is not under your control.

You are trying to tell them how they should respond. You are wanting people to tip toe around your feelings when you make statements of your belief as if they are facts. If they don't, then you whine that they are "insulting your beliefs."

Stop trying to control what other people say and realize that it is what you say that causes them to respond the way they do.

Take some responsibility for what you are attracting.

I say again:


If your stubborn pride prevents you from saying,

"I believe that Jesus is the only begotten child of God."

and you insist on stating:(as a fact)

"Jesus is the only begotten child of God!"

Then you can surly expect to draw controversy into your experience.

Just try it.

Stop thinking that whining and complaining and claiming to be insulted is going to control what other people say to you. That is not for you to control. Let people say what they will.


P.S.

You can continue to preach and make statements and call them truth if you want, but you should realize that you will draw argument and controversy when you do. So stop whining.








Abracadabra's photo
Sun 04/17/11 07:23 PM

I don't think anyone stated for a fact that Jesus was a Buddhist.


I certainly don't. I suggest that this is a very plausible possibility and I support its plausibility with various reasons.

For all I know Jeannie's theory that Jesus was a totally made up fictional character could be true. flowerforyou

Abracadabra's photo
Sun 04/17/11 07:57 PM
Jeannie wrote:

You are trying to dictate and control other people's reactions and words by complaining and claiming to be "insulted."


That's exactly it right there.

He doesn't like what I have to say so he's going to try to claim personal insult and injury because he doesn't like my views.

He's trying to censor my views by claiming that they 'insult' him.

There is no "personal insult" in my view that the ancient Hebrew texts are most likely fables. I even offer evidence for why I feel this must necessarily be the case.

As far as I'm concerned there's enough evidence within these stories themselves to prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that the are necessarily made up fables.

It's open and shut case as far as I'm concerned.

That's what I truly believe and I should be able to express that view without anyone being insulted by it.

With all due respect Cowboy, mature adults should be able to discuss things maturely without claiming insult and injury over everything they disagree with.

no photo
Mon 04/18/11 02:53 AM
Edited by MorningSong on Mon 04/18/11 03:41 AM

(I was "picking on" morningsong. :wink: .....




No offense taken, Jeannie.

I just see kindness in you..as always ...flowerforyou:heart:flowerforyou


((((flowerforyouHugsflowerforyou))))














jrbogie's photo
Mon 04/18/11 03:19 AM



Why do some people need religion?

Why do people search for truth?





beats me. my folks told me early in life i needed religion but i grew up and found it wasn't so. not a clue what truth is. i hear what's true for one person and that's nothing like what's true for another and both those folks are all messed up if yet another's truth be known. so i haven't bothered to search for truth. just way too busy enjoying my short time as something other than carbon.

jrbogie's photo
Mon 04/18/11 03:26 AM
Edited by jrbogie on Mon 04/18/11 03:36 AM

You missed the point entirely. I'll give another example.

I state Jesus is the only begotten child of God.

Someone else states that Jesus never even existed.




and neither of you can ever know. neither of you could ever prove your statement correct and the other wrong.

jrbogie's photo
Mon 04/18/11 03:35 AM
Edited by jrbogie on Mon 04/18/11 03:37 AM
You are trying to dictate and control other people's reactions and words by complaining and claiming to be "insulted."


so what? nothing new on the forums that people use rediculous debate techbiques. trying to control and dictate ain't the same as controlling and dictating?

HOW a person responds to your proclamations and statements is not under your control.


see? you had it all along. lol.

now i have a point to make folks. all the personal innuendo and insults would likely dissapear if you'd all just ignore it when you see it. i'm reading all the crap here that really has little to do with "general religion chat" and alot to do with.................hell, don't not what it has to do with?

CowboyGH's photo
Mon 04/18/11 03:40 AM

No cowboy, I did NOT miss the point.

You are continually missing the point.

You are trying to dictate and control other people's reactions and words by complaining and claiming to be "insulted."

HOW a person responds to your proclamations and statements is not under your control.

The only thing that is under your control is how YOU say things. You cannot control how other people say things or how other people express themselves.

If you take offense that is just "you" taking offense. It is not anyone's fault but yours that you take offense. You are trying to complain and blame someone else and chastise them for how they respond to you. That is not under your control.

You are trying to tell them how they should respond. You are wanting people to tip toe around your feelings when you make statements of your belief as if they are facts. If they don't, then you whine that they are "insulting your beliefs."

Stop trying to control what other people say and realize that it is what you say that causes them to respond the way they do.

Take some responsibility for what you are attracting.

I say again:


If your stubborn pride prevents you from saying,

"I believe that Jesus is the only begotten child of God."

and you insist on stating:(as a fact)

"Jesus is the only begotten child of God!"

Then you can surly expect to draw controversy into your experience.

Just try it.

Stop thinking that whining and complaining and claiming to be insulted is going to control what other people say to you. That is not for you to control. Let people say what they will.


P.S.

You can continue to preach and make statements and call them truth if you want, but you should realize that you will draw argument and controversy when you do. So stop whining.











You can continue to preach and make statements and call them truth if you want, but you should realize that you will draw argument and controversy when you do. So stop whining.


lol, you're FUNNY!!!

No one's whining, no one's preaching. Just mentioned this to try to make the forums more enjoyable rather then everyone at each other's throats, as how it usually is in here. This is a forum for DISCUSSION. That doesn't necessarily involve proving anything. We're just here for casual discussion on the area of religion. Again, no preaching, no arguing, nothing. Just purely enlightened discussion.

CowboyGH's photo
Mon 04/18/11 03:42 AM



I don't think anyone stated for a fact that Jesus was a Buddhist.

But if your stubborn pride prevents you from saying,

"I believe that Jesus is the only begotten child of God."

and you insist on stating:

"Jesus is the only begotten child of God!"

Then you can surly expect to draw controversy into your experience.

You attract it. You create it. It is the Law of attraction, the first law of the universe.

Therefore you have no cause to complain about feeling insulted and trying to correct other people's reactions.




You missed the point entirely. I'll give another example.

I state Jesus is the only begotten child of God.

Someone else states that Jesus never even existed.

That would be fine again. And again it becomes insulting when people use insulting words such a Hebrew fables, fairy tells, ect. That is my entire point. Weather one believes or not is moot. It's about the wording and how they express it.


You're still not realizing that when you state something as absolute truth, you are insulting them in the same way you feel insulted.


As in my example, if people would discuss as it were the truth, that would be fine. My entire point was when it comes down to belittling other's beliefs.

CowboyGH's photo
Mon 04/18/11 03:47 AM


You missed the point entirely. I'll give another example.

I state Jesus is the only begotten child of God.

Someone else states that Jesus never even existed.




and neither of you can ever know. neither of you could ever prove your statement correct and the other wrong.


No, we may not be able to. This isn't a place to show the other right or wrong. This is a place for discussion, pure enlightenment. Learning of other's beliefs. Our beliefs is what drives us through our days. This is a place for sharing our inner most beliefs and thoughts on certain things containing to religion. Nothing can be proven for fact weather it's right or wrong in the religion area. Both sides is purely faith. Just mentioning this, to try to lighten the forum up a little.

jrbogie's photo
Mon 04/18/11 04:06 AM
Edited by jrbogie on Mon 04/18/11 04:22 AM

All people have religion. This is a trait handed down to us since at least neanderthal man. The question is whether our religions are organized or not. Atheism is a religion too, just not an organized one. As a general rule, religion is needed to keep us in touch with our humanity. Unlike science or other purely logical fields, religion gives us objective moral rules and standards. That is, while objective disciplines can explain why things happen and why we do things, religion tells what we SHOULD and SHOULDN'T do.
.



well if we're to use your definition of "religion" the i suppose we need to include the "raider nation". those footbal fanatics are every bet as convinced that no better team exists every bit as much as atheists are convinced that no god exists. you folks go right ahead and argue what is and is not the definition of religion but here's MINE when I speak of religion. a belief in a deity or supreme being based only on faith whether organized or not. as not every raider fan believs in a god the "raider nation" is not a religion for the purpose of discussions on religions. same's true with atheism, agnosticism, buddhism, thaoism, etc.

as an agnostic, how did i learn what i "should and shouldn't do?"

jrbogie's photo
Mon 04/18/11 04:18 AM



You missed the point entirely. I'll give another example.

I state Jesus is the only begotten child of God.

Someone else states that Jesus never even existed.




and neither of you can ever know. neither of you could ever prove your statement correct and the other wrong.


No, we may not be able to. This isn't a place to show the other right or wrong. This is a place for discussion, pure enlightenment. Learning of other's beliefs. Our beliefs is what drives us through our days. This is a place for sharing our inner most beliefs and thoughts on certain things containing to religion. Nothing can be proven for fact weather it's right or wrong in the religion area. Both sides is purely faith. Just mentioning this, to try to lighten the forum up a little.


you mention "both sides" as though there's two groups, or sides, here. if what you say about nothing being provable, which i agree with wholeheartedly, then there's only one group here. as god goes, since we cannot prove the existence or nonexistence then none of us can ever know so we're all agnostics, are we not? here's the take of another known agnostic on the subject of proof:

"A good theory will describe a large range of phenomena on the basis of a few simple postulates and will make definite predictions that can be tested. If the predictions agree with the observations, the theory survives that test, though it can never be proved to be correct."

Stephen Hawking, the universe in a nutshell.


jrbogie's photo
Mon 04/18/11 04:20 AM
Edited by jrbogie on Mon 04/18/11 04:21 AM

CowboyGH's photo
Mon 04/18/11 04:25 AM




You missed the point entirely. I'll give another example.

I state Jesus is the only begotten child of God.

Someone else states that Jesus never even existed.




and neither of you can ever know. neither of you could ever prove your statement correct and the other wrong.


No, we may not be able to. This isn't a place to show the other right or wrong. This is a place for discussion, pure enlightenment. Learning of other's beliefs. Our beliefs is what drives us through our days. This is a place for sharing our inner most beliefs and thoughts on certain things containing to religion. Nothing can be proven for fact weather it's right or wrong in the religion area. Both sides is purely faith. Just mentioning this, to try to lighten the forum up a little.


you mention "both sides" as though there's two groups, or sides, here. if what you say about nothing being provable, which i agree with wholeheartedly, then there's only one group here. as god goes, since we cannot prove the existence or nonexistence then none of us can ever know so we're all agnostics, are we not? here's the take of another known agnostic on the subject of proof:

"A good theory will describe a large range of phenomena on the basis of a few simple postulates and will make definite predictions that can be tested. If the predictions agree with the observations, the theory survives that test, though it can never be proved to be correct."

Stephen Hawking, the universe in a nutshell.




There are two sides in the aspect as my beliefs are one side and another's beliefs are another side. And just cause one can not prove or disprove a God(s) does not make one agnostic. This world revolves around faith. When two get married, they do not know it's going to last forever. They have faith it will, as the reasoning of them getting married. But nevertheless they know not for sure if it will work in the long run, eg., they have faith it will. Things of tomorrow are only true to you by faith, less of course it involved you directly in the memory of yesterday. But point being, if it doesn't involve you physically of yesterday, then it is taken by faith that what is said about yesterday is true.