I say if you are baptised in JC's name and continue in that name you are not saved. That you are decieving yourself. Prove me wrong. for both our good..Shalom..Miles

BS >

Thats fine.. But scriptually and thats all a believer is to go by. says if you say you believe and deny what it says and tell others the satan is your father. those who say they believe are liars and this makes them Evil in Satans eyes. Satan has decieved himself if you believe is this not true? Shalom..Miles

this time 100000000000000 more BS .Next ?

You are provingt my point.. You are scared of what I have to say and Hate the message.. This is why Yahshua was killed. They hated his message and you say you believe.. yet you refuse to prove why? Why? This is why the other topic od 10 reasons happens.. Blessings..Miles

Here is why you so called believers HATE the Message I bring to you.. You love a lie. Non believers say they do not believe.. zDoes that make them liars.. NO they are being truthful and not deceptive. Thats why they Hated Yahshua's message and he said if they Hated him They will hate you.. I* say PROVE ..you say well it can not be. shalom..Miles

Heb 10:26-31

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of Yahweh underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says Yahweh. And again, "Yahweh will judge His people." 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living Elohim.
NKJV

Accept and repent you have been decieved. and see

Dude ! I pretty much don't give a Shhht ! I am not religious and honestly am so tired about this crap going around the world . Keep your Shalom , we speak English here , hello!

Well ain't that Special..

You apperently did not read the Post topic. To the BELIEVER.
so who cares. but character shows in all of us.. Blessings..Miles

Here is what the people of the earth will do to Yahweh's people.

Rev 11:8-10
9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.
NKJV


Thier sword is the Word of Yahweh. Thats what they will hate as you do now. Torment is the word. The word is Torment. Yahshua is the word. Shalom..Miles

Apparently some religions can get pretty gross.

But then considering that they are based on an idea that people need to be "saved" from something I guess they need to have something really gross for people to be "saved" from, otherwise the whole concept of being "saved" would be fairly meaningless.

Death is a penalty, it is a punishment. That is what we are gaining forgiveness for. We are gaining forgiveness of our trespasses and disobedience so we will not be punished with death. Nothing "gross". No one's holding a gun to anyone's head. It's not a "threat". Death is a penalty on us for our disobedience. Again, we aren't "threatened". We enlightened with the knowledge of the outcome of certain actions.

Well sure you're being "threatened".

You just stated the threat yourself: "Obey or die!"

That's a threat my friend.

Besides, that's not the threat that is given in the Christian Scriptures anyway. The threat is not merely death, but everlasting punishment. That's the "threat" - "Obey or suffer everlasting punishment!"

And what are we supposed to "obey" exactly?

Well, that's a really good question that no two people who believe in these scriptures can even agree upon. This is why the religion is so fragmented and divisive in all of its various denominations and sects. They all disagree on precisely what it is that they are supposed to "obey".

How are you supposed to "obey" when no one can agree on precisely what it is that is supposed to be "obeyed"

I've read these scriptures myself and as far as I can see the main thrust of the teachings of Jesus was pretty simple:


Luke.6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Right there you have it my friend.

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged.

Condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned.

Forgive, and ye shall be forgiven.

Pretty simple stuff.

Nowhere does it say, "Thou must cower down to every opinion of every paper pope that one meets"

I don't know why "believers" always need to make everything so difficult. In fact, there's not even any need to "believe" in anything:


John.12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

Obviously, even according to Jesus himself, believing in him or his words is not even remotely important.

So even believers, should recognize that their "belief" is of no importance at all. Only their action (their karma) is important, just as has always been taught by all the great sages of the far east.

Miles,

What kind of a God would be interested in condemning sincere people who mean well, and believe they are doing to the "right thing"?

Do honestly believe in a God who would be so heartless and cruel to be condemning people on a mere technicality when in fact the person was actually sincere of heart?

What kind of a "god" would that be Miles?

~~~~~~

I've actually thought about this quite deeply. As an example, I personally find many of the the spiritual philosophies and views of Eastern Mystics to be quite beautiful. I also have come to find many of the traditions and views of Wicca (or Witchcraft), and even the Faery Teachings of Northern Europe to be quite beautiful

So I construct an extremely intelligent & beautiful picture of "god" (i.e. what I believe to be the creator of the universe)

So now you're suggesting to me that when I meet my maker and show him/her/it/them this picture of what I imagined the creator to be like they are going to respond as follows:

"No! I'm nowhere near that intelligent & beautiful! How DARE you think that I'm so intelligent & beautiful! You're going straight to hell you heathen!"

Is that how you think of "god"?

An entity that's just chomping at the bit to condemn sincere loving people on a mere technicality? Especially for thinking that "god" might actually be "intelligent & beautiful"?

What sense does that even make?

I ask you?

What sense does that make Miles?

Its fair. Abra.

Yahweh does not condem people who are honest with themselves. those who try to do good.

Satan is said to be a shining light to people who want what they want.

Yahweh says to put others 1st. what we see is power control. What I have said is wake up to those who say they believe. why believe something as important as eternal life is for real and then not know what the requirements are?

Lets say you go to school learn the basics and get a job. if when you get the job and the job description entails what you was taught and you refuse to listen to management how long are you going to last at that job?

No difference just common sence.

Do you see me speaking like this to you Abra? No because you say hey I think its fanticy. Well i take it on your word this is what you believe .. is Yahweh going to condemn you because you saw hipocracy and refused because of what you saw, from what you learned?

No thats not Yahweh.. he spels out judgement. Here are a couple of them.

1 Cor 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of Yahweh? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of Yahweh. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of Yahshua our Messiah and by the Spirit of our Elohim.
NKJV


Common sence laws.. does not say those who do not believe or this would not be true...

1/5 of the worlds population who do not believe are here when after Yahshua's return.. does he wipe them out?

Zech 14:16-19

And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which Yahweh strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
NKJV


Here we see people like you lets say who get to See Yahshua on Earth. He never leaves again. you then have the time to accept him or reject him.

So if Yahweh lets 1/5th of the population live into the Millinium like over 1 billion non believers to see him then what about all those who died and did not believe and never saw him?

They are judged after the 1000 years by thier works.. by what i quoted above in 1 Cor 6:9-11

Fair and Just judgement.

Rev 20:12-13
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before Yahshua, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books .
NKJV


Yahshua was given the Keys of life.. to Judge at this time. How many people did he condem and who when he was on tyhe earth?

Not the unbeliever not even who let the Jews have him to kill him.

No he condemned the ones who said they believed but what they did was make thier own commandments..

Matt 15:6-9
Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 "These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men .'"
NKJV


Thats what people do that prefer the commandments of Men. They Insult the Spirit of Yahweh. They take his name in VAIN. Destroy the one who the scriptures really speak of.

They are called to be examples of Yahshua.

John 13:15
15 For I have given you an example , that you should do as I have done to you.
NKJV


What was the only thing Yahshua did not do?

Go into offer sacrafices for sins.

Because he was the Lamb of Yahweh.. He was sinless thats what made him who he was and gave him the Authority to be able to die for the sins of the world.

Yet those who call upon another name , those who say the law was done away. Do not follow his example.

They do as Satan does. They say I have the keys to Eternal Life. I will rise to the Heavens. The kingdom is on Earth. Yahshua comes to Earth with the Kingdom inside him.,

Thats why I blast those who say I Believe and do do not follow in Yahshua's footsteps. It would be better that they were never born.

To a parent thier children are always thier children

Matt 18:6-7

"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea . 7 Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!
NKJV

Believes in Me.. believing in Him is following his example and thoise who say they follow and lie are of the Devil because they lie.. They lead others captive who want to believe.. they send others away who say non sence. they are decievers and they are NOT SAVED Period.

The time is close when the whole world will here this message and tbey will seek to kill people like me who tell them to quit lieing about the only one who has shown what Holiness is.

They Hated Yahshua then and put him to death and they will and now do Hate the scriptures of Life now because they follow satan who is prophicied to come throughout the whole world.

What name is so Holy in the world that is easily proven has not come in his fathers name.. Satan and his disciples who come in his name and thats JC.. and I will not even have that name on my lips.

Someone has to tell the truth about what the scriptures say. I challenge them to show me wrong. If they do I will rejoice because I have been corrected and I will accept. They will not they love what they have and are not of Yahweh. PERIOD. its time for them to knbow whats coming.. Blessings..Miles

Miles, I read you entire post, but I'd really like to just comment on the above.

First off, if things are indeed "fair" and judgments will indeed be made on a person's sincerity and the true nature of their heart, then belief in the scriptures is totally unimportant.

Moreover, if things are indeed "fair", then the people who will be condemned will deserve what they get. Moreover, making an appeal to them to change their "evil ways" is probably a futile quest.

People who knowingly do evil things and are indeed out to gain control, power, money, or whatever at the expense of others, know full well what their intentions are.

So again, a truly benevolent "God" who is going to be judging people are the true nature is no threat to anyone unless the true nature of that person is indeed to get over on other people for their personal lustful desires, or whatever.

So who is there that's truly worth "preaching to"?

Preaching to decent honest people is a waste of everyone's time. That's just "preaching to the choir" was they say.

And preaching to the hardcore evil people who know full-well that their selfish desires is to get over on other people is probably just as much of a waste of time.

What would you tell them?

Would you say, "Hey, if you give up your evil selfish lusts and start treating other people nicely you can will a free trip to eternal paradise!"

All you'd be doing then is attempting to lure their already selfish lusts for a whole new prize!

If that's their only motivation to do good, would this "God" really even want them?

As I've always said, God would most likely be most pleased by benevolent secular atheists who are great humanitarians and supporters of saving the planet and the environment (i.e. saving creation) Because here you clearly have people who want to do this because they truly do care about the whole shebang, including other people, animals, and even nature herself. And they aren't expecting any rewards for being this way, nor are they doing it out of a fear of reprisal if they don't behave this way.

Righteous atheists would be "God's" greatest creation! They would surely be the children that he would be most proud of and pleased with. Here they are doing all the right things simply because it's who they are and for no other reason.

No carrots of reward or threats of damnation required. They already have the "mind of God" inherent in their very own disposition. What could be more perfect than that?

~~~~~

Now you seem to be addressing people who supposed "believe" in the Biblical scriptures, but don't seem to be "getting it".

That's whole different ball-game there.

If they are believers why would they not "get it"?

You say:


Well, if the bible is the "school" and sincere honest people aren't "getting it". Then where can the problem possibly be?

It's must be in the SCHOOL! Because if sincere honest students are FLUNKING then the school is flunking TOO!

~~~~~~~~

I personally think it's a waste of time to try to "preach" to anyone.

Either a person is sincere of heart (in which case God should be able to to determine that).

Or the person is truly evil and selfish and doesn't give a rats *** about anyone but themselves (in which case God should know how to properly deal with those types of people as well)

In short, if you're going to believe in a God, the least you can do for everyone's sanity (including you own), is to TRUST the God to do what "right", and if you believe that God is indeed truly benevolent and fair, then guess what?

No one will be condemned who doesn't deserve to be condemned.

And if you can TRUST God enough to do that one little thing righteously then you shouldn't be concerned at all about what people may or may not believe. Just TRUST IN GOD to be able to deal with the souls that he created in a truly righteous way.

Otherwise, all you're doing is exhibiting a GRAVE FEAR that God might condemn decent people without giving them a "fair" chance.

Its called faith.

Why are so many people going around second guessing "God's plan?"

Why are so many people preaching their version of truth?

Why do I even bother to say anything at all?

Its really quite pointless I think.

Pointless it is, Jeannie.

"What name is so Holy in the world that is easily proven has not come in his fathers name.. Satan and his disciples who come in his name and thats JC.. and I will not even have that name on my lips."

You seriously believe in the scriptures don't you Miles...

I applaud your steadfast and straight foward approach to conversation.

I wonder why so many do not see this in the oft quoted book.

does it not say (or so I have heard) that his return will be at the right side of the father. Not opon the throne. ('in the name of the father' not the son or the comforter).

for that is the seat of God.

While Jesus may be wrapped in the Glory of God...

God alone is most great.

Jesus did not die on the cross, Miles.

The church (or at least a portion of it) holds his books. As well as those of the three kings whose borders protected him after his 'rising'.

History has a way of presenting us with scientific proof that is valid.

This is true yes. And here is another thing Jesus said.

Matthew 10:33
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.




It is not a threat. If you are driving with someone. This person tells you to turn right at the next 4 way or you will drive right off the cliff and die. Is this a threat? Is the friend threatening the driver with death? By your standards, yes. Death is the "normal" or "natural" ending of life because death has been introduced to this world through disobedience to God. That is why Jesus offers forgiveness of YOUR sins and trespasses and offers eternal life. No threats. Only a suggestion to turn right before you drive off the cliff and die.



Why do you have to have someone tell you what you are to be obedient to? Why can one not read the bible themselves and find out what they are to do and or not do? I don't rightly care about the fragments, sects, and or denominations of Christianity. These all came about because of people with pride in their understanding of the bible. Not willing to admit they may have mistranslated something. I know personally, I don't know the entire bible 100% exactly how it should be. That is what life is all about. Life is about being put through troubles and tribulations so one can learn from these experiences and grow in the lord. Leaning on Jesus every step of the way allowing him to keep us up and going.



Yes this would be true if you weren't taking things out of context. Notice "I came not to judge the world". I CAME. That is referring to the first coming. His return is when he will do the judging. But yes, you are very correct. The first time Jesus was here, he wasn't here to judge anything or anyone. He was here to teach us the new covenant between man and God.