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| Topic: Being Saved? To those who claim to believe | |
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Its fair. Abra. Yahweh does not condem people who are honest with themselves. those who try to do good. Satan is said to be a shining light to people who want what they want. Yahweh says to put others 1st. what we see is power control. What I have said is wake up to those who say they believe. why believe something as important as eternal life is for real and then not know what the requirements are? Lets say you go to school learn the basics and get a job. if when you get the job and the job description entails what you was taught and you refuse to listen to management how long are you going to last at that job? No difference just common sence. Miles, I read you entire post, but I'd really like to just comment on the above. First off, if things are indeed "fair" and judgments will indeed be made on a person's sincerity and the true nature of their heart, then belief in the scriptures is totally unimportant. Moreover, if things are indeed "fair", then the people who will be condemned will deserve what they get. Moreover, making an appeal to them to change their "evil ways" is probably a futile quest. People who knowingly do evil things and are indeed out to gain control, power, money, or whatever at the expense of others, know full well what their intentions are. So again, a truly benevolent "God" who is going to be judging people are the true nature is no threat to anyone unless the true nature of that person is indeed to get over on other people for their personal lustful desires, or whatever. So who is there that's truly worth "preaching to"? Preaching to decent honest people is a waste of everyone's time. That's just "preaching to the choir" was they say. And preaching to the hardcore evil people who know full-well that their selfish desires is to get over on other people is probably just as much of a waste of time. What would you tell them? Would you say, "Hey, if you give up your evil selfish lusts and start treating other people nicely you can will a free trip to eternal paradise!" All you'd be doing then is attempting to lure their already selfish lusts for a whole new prize! If that's their only motivation to do good, would this "God" really even want them? As I've always said, God would most likely be most pleased by benevolent secular atheists who are great humanitarians and supporters of saving the planet and the environment (i.e. saving creation) Because here you clearly have people who want to do this because they truly do care about the whole shebang, including other people, animals, and even nature herself. And they aren't expecting any rewards for being this way, nor are they doing it out of a fear of reprisal if they don't behave this way. Righteous atheists would be "God's" greatest creation! They would surely be the children that he would be most proud of and pleased with. Here they are doing all the right things simply because it's who they are and for no other reason. No carrots of reward or threats of damnation required. They already have the "mind of God" inherent in their very own disposition. What could be more perfect than that? ~~~~~ Now you seem to be addressing people who supposed "believe" in the Biblical scriptures, but don't seem to be "getting it". That's whole different ball-game there. If they are believers why would they not "get it"?  You say: Lets say you go to school learn the basics and get a job. if when you get the job and the job description entails what you was taught and you refuse to listen to management how long are you going to last at that job? Well, if the bible is the "school" and sincere honest people aren't "getting it". Then where can the problem possibly be? It's must be in the SCHOOL! Because if sincere honest students are FLUNKING then the school is flunking TOO! ~~~~~~~~ I personally think it's a waste of time to try to "preach" to anyone. Either a person is sincere of heart (in which case God should be able to to determine that). Or the person is truly evil and selfish and doesn't give a rats *** about anyone but themselves (in which case God should know how to properly deal with those types of people as well) In short, if you're going to believe in a God, the least you can do for everyone's sanity (including you own), is to TRUST the God to do what "right", and if you believe that God is indeed truly benevolent and fair, then guess what? No one will be condemned who doesn't deserve to be condemned. And if you can TRUST God enough to do that one little thing righteously then you shouldn't be concerned at all about what people may or may not believe. Just TRUST IN GOD to be able to deal with the souls that he created in a truly righteous way. Otherwise, all you're doing is exhibiting a GRAVE FEAR that God might condemn decent people without giving them a "fair" chance. Shalom Abra. Thiers alot of truth to what you say. Thir are rewards but Yahweh des not force you.. He wants a willing person to listen and do right. Satan knows the scriptures yet he believes he can out smart so to speak Yahweh.. He has decieved himself. Speaking what is right for someones own good is always the right thing. Yet the truth hurts. People do not want to change they like the ways things are so they stay thier. Yahshua we see did good and they killed him for it. I am not the judge or the executioner. I am an abassodor to help show the way. Can not force anyone.. People who go out and say be saved or be damed don't trust Yahweh is in control.Like they can really save a person. In the kingdom we see 2 sets of people. Royalty.. Those who accept what he says and live accordingly and The priests who come out of great turmoil and believe after the appointed time for deliverance. Royalty is seen in Rev 14. they are the 144'000. In Rev 15 are the priests who now have learned the hard way and were willing to die for thier beliefs.. at the end of the 1000 year regiegn of Yahshua on earth satan is let loose again. people even though they are living and have seen Yahshua and know who he is take sides.. They still side with satan and fight again with him.. even though they have seen him defeated once already. people will either believe or they will not.. alot of stubborn people. Yet We see people getting judgement but not a fiery hell fire for eternity. they are simply destroyed and the rememberence of them is wiped from peoples minds. The preaching is to help people understand what is to come and top prepare as if going to battle or for earth shaking events.. Its a warning but most will not listen just like in Yahshua's day.. same ole thing. The spreading of the evangel is to warn them of the Evil one.. of his tricks and the scriptures tell us whats coming. We are in a learning state and on the job training is always the best. Thats why the chosen have to be tried like job but not killed so they can help others endure the greatest test of Human kind the tribulation. Yahweh is fair and he knows peoples minds and hearts. we don't..Hence do not judge.. that is outside of those who believe. Believers are to judge to correct each other and learn. Thats why Yahweh says those who preach a lie to his children ( whole world) are the most evil in his eyes because they do it willingly and with no remorse.. They have to have it thier way.. A pwer struggle just like satan.. blessings..Miles |
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People do not want to change they like the ways things are so they stay thier. That's not why people behave the way they do. They behave the way they do because they are who they are. Period. Moreover, most people are actually good people. Trust me Miles, you would NOT want to live in a world where the vast majority of people were bad. And that is NOT this world. In this world the vast majority of people are actually quite good. Yahshua we see did good and they killed him for it. That's not why the killed him. The Pharisees incited the mob to have Jesus crucified for blaspheme because they where sick of Jesus badmouthing them and their religious authority. And the people in the mob themselves went along with it because it was in their doctrine that GOD HIMSELF commanded them to kill heathens and blasphemers, and since they had the Pharisees right there egging them on they were certain that they were doing "God's Will". They didn't kill Jesus because they hated him. In fact, most of the people in the mob probably didn't even know anything about Jesus, they were just going along with the crowd. It was the RELIGION itself that allowed for the crucifixion to even take place. The Pharisees could have never gotten away with having someone crucified in "God's Name" had it not already been written in their scriptures that this is what God had commanded men to do! This was a self-destructive religion. In fact, this religion had people going around stone people to death. It was already a very SICK religion before Jesus even came onto the scene. And it was the very SICKNESS of this religion that was the cause of Jesus' own demise. He was probably a Mystic Jew who was trying to get people to change their ways FROM WHAT THE ORIGINAL RELIGION HAD THEM DOING! Jesus (Yahshua as you call him) wasn't the son of the God of the Torah. He was actually trying to get people to quit behaving the way that God-forsaken religion had them behaving. But with Christianity the religion just want from SICK, to SICKER. |
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People do not want to change they like the ways things are so they stay thier. That's not why people behave the way they do. They behave the way they do because they are who they are. Period. Moreover, most people are actually good people. Trust me Miles, you would NOT want to live in a world where the vast majority of people were bad. And that is NOT this world. In this world the vast majority of people are actually quite good. Yahshua we see did good and they killed him for it. That's not why the killed him. The Pharisees incited the mob to have Jesus crucified for blaspheme because they where sick of Jesus badmouthing them and their religious authority. And the people in the mob themselves went along with it because it was in their doctrine that GOD HIMSELF commanded them to kill heathens and blasphemers, and since they had the Pharisees right there egging them on they were certain that they were doing "God's Will". They didn't kill Jesus because they hated him. In fact, most of the people in the mob probably didn't even know anything about Jesus, they were just going along with the crowd. It was the RELIGION itself that allowed for the crucifixion to even take place. The Pharisees could have never gotten away with having someone crucified in "God's Name" had it not already been written in their scriptures that this is what God had commanded men to do! This was a self-destructive religion. In fact, this religion had people going around stone people to death. It was already a very SICK religion before Jesus even came onto the scene. And it was the very SICKNESS of this religion that was the cause of Jesus' own demise. He was probably a Mystic Jew who was trying to get people to change their ways FROM WHAT THE ORIGINAL RELIGION HAD THEM DOING! Jesus (Yahshua as you call him) wasn't the son of the God of the Torah. He was actually trying to get people to quit behaving the way that God-forsaken religion had them behaving. But with Christianity the religion just want from SICK, to SICKER. In fact, this religion had people going around stone people to death. So people get the death penalty today and the majority sees this as ok. But turn around and say people were sick in those days for doing the same thing as they do now. Seems quite ironic. |
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People do not want to change they like the ways things are so they stay thier. That's not why people behave the way they do. They behave the way they do because they are who they are. Period. Moreover, most people are actually good people. Trust me Miles, you would NOT want to live in a world where the vast majority of people were bad. And that is NOT this world. In this world the vast majority of people are actually quite good. Yahshua we see did good and they killed him for it. That's not why the killed him. The Pharisees incited the mob to have Jesus crucified for blaspheme because they where sick of Jesus badmouthing them and their religious authority. And the people in the mob themselves went along with it because it was in their doctrine that GOD HIMSELF commanded them to kill heathens and blasphemers, and since they had the Pharisees right there egging them on they were certain that they were doing "God's Will". They didn't kill Jesus because they hated him. In fact, most of the people in the mob probably didn't even know anything about Jesus, they were just going along with the crowd. It was the RELIGION itself that allowed for the crucifixion to even take place. The Pharisees could have never gotten away with having someone crucified in "God's Name" had it not already been written in their scriptures that this is what God had commanded men to do! This was a self-destructive religion. In fact, this religion had people going around stone people to death. It was already a very SICK religion before Jesus even came onto the scene. And it was the very SICKNESS of this religion that was the cause of Jesus' own demise. He was probably a Mystic Jew who was trying to get people to change their ways FROM WHAT THE ORIGINAL RELIGION HAD THEM DOING! Jesus (Yahshua as you call him) wasn't the son of the God of the Torah. He was actually trying to get people to quit behaving the way that God-forsaken religion had them behaving. But with Christianity the religion just want from SICK, to SICKER. In fact, this religion had people going around stone people to death. So people get the death penalty today and the majority sees this as ok. But turn around and say people were sick in those days for doing the same thing as they do now. Seems quite ironic. It was the RELIGION itself that allowed for the crucifixion to even take place. The Pharisees could have never gotten away with having someone crucified in "God's Name" had it not already been written in their scriptures that this is what God had commanded men to do! This was a self-destructive religion. The birth of Jesus was prophesied before hand. It wasn't a surprise to those whom believe(d). It's not like God was up in heaven and just decided to change his laws. This ALL was prophesied before hand. So no, you are incorrect. They were not following the laws of God by crucifying Jesus, for Jesus was prophesied to come. |
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John.12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. Obviously, even according to Jesus himself, believing in him or his words is not even remotely important. This is true yes. And here is another thing Jesus said. Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. So? To not believe in Jesus is not "denying" him. In fact, the only people who could "deny him" where the actual people he was speaking to live who actually knew him. It's impossible for anyone alive to today to "deny" Jesus since they weren't there to know anything that they could deny. So that's not even an applicable to people who are living today. All we have is second-hand hearsay rumors of what Jesus might have said or done. To reject those rumors as being unreliable can in no way be twisted into a "denial" of the object of the rumors. It's simply impossible for anyone today to either deny or even confirm that Jesus even lived at all, much less that anything he may or may not have said was correctly recorded. You're simply not in a position to either deny or confirm Jesus. You can't do either one! If Jesus actually said to people FACE-TO-FACE in a LIVE conversation: "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not", then surely he's not going to judge anyone who only has Two-thousand-year-old hearsay rumors to go on if they don't believe those rumors.  Clearly a "belief" in Jesus today would be totally unimportant if Jesus didn't even expect people he was actually speaking to LIVE to believe him. So the whole idea that a belief in Jesus is important is a Christian fabrication that their very own scriptures do not even support. Well sure you're being "threatened". You just stated the threat yourself: "Obey or die!" That's a threat my friend. It is not a threat. If you are driving with someone. This person tells you to turn right at the next 4 way or you will drive right off the cliff and die. Is this a threat? Is the friend threatening the driver with death? By your standards, yes. Death is the "normal" or "natural" ending of life because death has been introduced to this world through disobedience to God. That is why Jesus offers forgiveness of YOUR sins and trespasses and offers eternal life. No threats. Only a suggestion to turn right before you drive off the cliff and die. That's not even close to being the same thing. That's a totally irrelevant scenario. If you want to make a scenario that actually fits, you'd need to have someone get in the car with a loaded gun pointed at your head and say, "TURN RIGHT AT THE NEXT STREET OR I'LL KILL YOU IF YOU DISOBEY ME!" That is a far more accurate scenario. Because by your own confession, your God demands obedience and will kill anyone who disobeys. So trying to act like he's just giving a polite warning that you might accidentally kill yourself if you don't listen, is a a false scenario. That's not what you've been claiming. You've been claiming that your God demands obedience or else! So either stick to your guns or give it up altogether. You can't have it both ways. Well, that's a really good question that no two people who believe in these scriptures can even agree upon. This is why the religion is so fragmented and divisive in all of its various denominations and sects. They all disagree on precisely what it is that they are supposed to "obey". How are you supposed to "obey" when no one can agree on precisely what it is that is supposed to be "obeyed" Why do you have to have someone tell you what you are to be obedient to? Why can one not read the bible themselves and find out what they are to do and or not do? I don't rightly care about the fragments, sects, and or denominations of Christianity. These all came about because of people with pride in their understanding of the bible. Not willing to admit they may have mistranslated something. I know personally, I don't know the entire bible 100% exactly how it should be. That is what life is all about. Life is about being put through troubles and tribulations so one can learn from these experiences and grow in the lord. Leaning on Jesus every step of the way allowing him to keep us up and going. I don't feel a need to lean on anyone. People often say that Christians are weak and can't deal with life and they need a crutch to lean on. Well here you are confirming that this is precisely what you feel that you need. Can't you learn lessons from life without having to lean on someone else? John.12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. Obviously, even according to Jesus himself, believing in him or his words is not even remotely important. Yes this would be true if you weren't taking things out of context. Notice "I came not to judge the world". I CAME. That is referring to the first coming. His return is when he will do the judging. But yes, you are very correct. The first time Jesus was here, he wasn't here to judge anything or anyone. He was here to teach us the new covenant between man and God. You totally ignored the most important point. And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not Period. If he came back and judged a person for this very thing he would then become a liar, because he said that he would not judge a man for this. Why you people are so hell bent on making Jesus out to be a hateful untrustworthy monster is beyond me. You claim that Jesus is going to change his mind about this when he comes back is totally ungrounded. There's nothing in what you've posted here that justifies your claim that Jesus will become a two-faced liar when he returns. You can try to make Jesus into an untrustworthy hateful monster till the cows come home. One thing you can be assured of is that you're not making your religion or Jesus appear very appealing to anyone. Where's the LOVE? All you people ever preach is hate. Jesus is going to hate you if you don't convert to Christian religious bigotry! That tactic just doesn't work anymore. Get over it. |
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People do not want to change they like the ways things are so they stay thier. That's not why people behave the way they do. They behave the way they do because they are who they are. Period. Moreover, most people are actually good people. Trust me Miles, you would NOT want to live in a world where the vast majority of people were bad. And that is NOT this world. In this world the vast majority of people are actually quite good. Yahshua we see did good and they killed him for it. That's not why the killed him. The Pharisees incited the mob to have Jesus crucified for blaspheme because they where sick of Jesus badmouthing them and their religious authority. And the people in the mob themselves went along with it because it was in their doctrine that GOD HIMSELF commanded them to kill heathens and blasphemers, and since they had the Pharisees right there egging them on they were certain that they were doing "God's Will". They didn't kill Jesus because they hated him. In fact, most of the people in the mob probably didn't even know anything about Jesus, they were just going along with the crowd. It was the RELIGION itself that allowed for the crucifixion to even take place. The Pharisees could have never gotten away with having someone crucified in "God's Name" had it not already been written in their scriptures that this is what God had commanded men to do! This was a self-destructive religion. In fact, this religion had people going around stone people to death. It was already a very SICK religion before Jesus even came onto the scene. And it was the very SICKNESS of this religion that was the cause of Jesus' own demise. He was probably a Mystic Jew who was trying to get people to change their ways FROM WHAT THE ORIGINAL RELIGION HAD THEM DOING! Jesus (Yahshua as you call him) wasn't the son of the God of the Torah. He was actually trying to get people to quit behaving the way that God-forsaken religion had them behaving. But with Christianity the religion just want from SICK, to SICKER. In fact, this religion had people going around stone people to death. So people get the death penalty today and the majority sees this as ok. But turn around and say people were sick in those days for doing the same thing as they do now. Seems quite ironic. It was the RELIGION itself that allowed for the crucifixion to even take place. The Pharisees could have never gotten away with having someone crucified in "God's Name" had it not already been written in their scriptures that this is what God had commanded men to do! This was a self-destructive religion. The birth of Jesus was prophesied before hand. It wasn't a surprise to those whom believe(d). It's not like God was up in heaven and just decided to change his laws. This ALL was prophesied before hand. So no, you are incorrect. They were not following the laws of God by crucifying Jesus, for Jesus was prophesied to come. First off, even the Jews, Muslims, and many theologians as well as secular scientists have read these stories and are NOT convinced, and they have ALL the information neatly organized in a single cannon of stories. So not everyone is convinced that Jesus even satisfied any prophecy. The promised messiah was supposed to become the KING of the Jews. But that never happened. So he couldn't have been the messiah. There is absolutely no reason at all for anyone in those days to think that Jesus was anything special. These scriptures that try to make a case that Jesus was "The Christ" didn't appear until several decades after Jesus died (assuming that he ever existed at all) But the people who would have been there live would have absolutely no reason to think that Jesus was anything more than a blasphemer, especially if their scribes and pharisees are pronouncing him as such. Even today, if some guy claimed to be Jesus returning and the Christian Clergy renounced him, all the Christians would renounce him too! Hell's bells, if the leaders of your church are telling you that some guy is a false prophet you're going to believe them! No way, the mob who crucified Jesus were only doing what their God of Abraham had commanded them to do! Kill heathens! And stone sinners to death. That's what they were taught to do, and that was the "Godly" thing to do. So that mob would have been OBEYING the directives of this biblical God when they had Jesus crucified on the pole. All the BLOOD of this event is on the biblical God's hands, and no mortal human can be held responsible. They were just doing what God had instructed them to do. Can't blame them for that. If God didn't want them to KILL people he shouldn't have taught them to KILL people in the first place. |
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John.12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. Obviously, even according to Jesus himself, believing in him or his words is not even remotely important. This is true yes. And here is another thing Jesus said. Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. So? To not believe in Jesus is not "denying" him. In fact, the only people who could "deny him" where the actual people he was speaking to live who actually knew him. It's impossible for anyone alive to today to "deny" Jesus since they weren't there to know anything that they could deny. So that's not even an applicable to people who are living today. All we have is second-hand hearsay rumors of what Jesus might have said or done. To reject those rumors as being unreliable can in no way be twisted into a "denial" of the object of the rumors. It's simply impossible for anyone today to either deny or even confirm that Jesus even lived at all, much less that anything he may or may not have said was correctly recorded. You're simply not in a position to either deny or confirm Jesus. You can't do either one! If Jesus actually said to people FACE-TO-FACE in a LIVE conversation: "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not", then surely he's not going to judge anyone who only has Two-thousand-year-old hearsay rumors to go on if they don't believe those rumors. Clearly a "belief" in Jesus today would be totally unimportant if Jesus didn't even expect people he was actually speaking to LIVE to believe him. So the whole idea that a belief in Jesus is important is a Christian fabrication that their very own scriptures do not even support. Well sure you're being "threatened". You just stated the threat yourself: "Obey or die!" That's a threat my friend. It is not a threat. If you are driving with someone. This person tells you to turn right at the next 4 way or you will drive right off the cliff and die. Is this a threat? Is the friend threatening the driver with death? By your standards, yes. Death is the "normal" or "natural" ending of life because death has been introduced to this world through disobedience to God. That is why Jesus offers forgiveness of YOUR sins and trespasses and offers eternal life. No threats. Only a suggestion to turn right before you drive off the cliff and die. That's not even close to being the same thing. That's a totally irrelevant scenario. If you want to make a scenario that actually fits, you'd need to have someone get in the car with a loaded gun pointed at your head and say, "TURN RIGHT AT THE NEXT STREET OR I'LL KILL YOU IF YOU DISOBEY ME!" That is a far more accurate scenario. Because by your own confession, your God demands obedience and will kill anyone who disobeys. So trying to act like he's just giving a polite warning that you might accidentally kill yourself if you don't listen, is a a false scenario. That's not what you've been claiming. You've been claiming that your God demands obedience or else! So either stick to your guns or give it up altogether. You can't have it both ways. Well, that's a really good question that no two people who believe in these scriptures can even agree upon. This is why the religion is so fragmented and divisive in all of its various denominations and sects. They all disagree on precisely what it is that they are supposed to "obey". How are you supposed to "obey" when no one can agree on precisely what it is that is supposed to be "obeyed" Why do you have to have someone tell you what you are to be obedient to? Why can one not read the bible themselves and find out what they are to do and or not do? I don't rightly care about the fragments, sects, and or denominations of Christianity. These all came about because of people with pride in their understanding of the bible. Not willing to admit they may have mistranslated something. I know personally, I don't know the entire bible 100% exactly how it should be. That is what life is all about. Life is about being put through troubles and tribulations so one can learn from these experiences and grow in the lord. Leaning on Jesus every step of the way allowing him to keep us up and going. I don't feel a need to lean on anyone. People often say that Christians are weak and can't deal with life and they need a crutch to lean on. Well here you are confirming that this is precisely what you feel that you need. Can't you learn lessons from life without having to lean on someone else? John.12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. Obviously, even according to Jesus himself, believing in him or his words is not even remotely important. Yes this would be true if you weren't taking things out of context. Notice "I came not to judge the world". I CAME. That is referring to the first coming. His return is when he will do the judging. But yes, you are very correct. The first time Jesus was here, he wasn't here to judge anything or anyone. He was here to teach us the new covenant between man and God. You totally ignored the most important point. And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not Period. If he came back and judged a person for this very thing he would then become a liar, because he said that he would not judge a man for this. Why you people are so hell bent on making Jesus out to be a hateful untrustworthy monster is beyond me. You claim that Jesus is going to change his mind about this when he comes back is totally ungrounded. There's nothing in what you've posted here that justifies your claim that Jesus will become a two-faced liar when he returns. You can try to make Jesus into an untrustworthy hateful monster till the cows come home. One thing you can be assured of is that you're not making your religion or Jesus appear very appealing to anyone. Where's the LOVE? All you people ever preach is hate. Jesus is going to hate you if you don't convert to Christian religious bigotry! That tactic just doesn't work anymore. Get over it. He would.. But are you forgetting something.. u Said... John 12:47 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: KJV yes this is true its free choice but the laws of motion tell you he will fall. John 12:48 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. KJV All Yahshua was saying is what he tells us to do in Judge not.. Not that he was saying thier were no consiquences. Yahweh will judge us under his law.. his judgements.. Rom 11:1-2 I say then, has Elohim cast away His people ? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 Yahweh has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. NKJV He foresaw our consiquence and was and is as trying to warn us.. Blessings..Miles |
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Edited by
Milesoftheusa
on
Sun 04/10/11 01:33 AM
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anywazes I got a bone to pick with you Abra
You seem to enjoy slamming the Elohim of Abraham as if thats a sore point with you. My father always wipped us if we cussed.. Told us the only people who cuss are ones with no brains.. can't think of another word so the cuss. Kinda like continually slamming Elohim. I know you have Brains and not trains: as The Choo Choo man Said   How about I refer to you as Choo Choo man.. be cool..huh? |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 04/10/11 02:37 AM
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Miles said to Abra:
"You seem to enjoy slamming the Elohim of Abraham as if thats a sore point with you. " Miles, it is the concept of the Biblical God as he is portrayed by men in the Bible that Abra speaks about not about any real God. It is the doctrines they teach that don't make sense that he speaks about. Religion has created or twisted their interpretations of a 2000 year old bunch of writings and now force feed them to the people as some sort of holy book. Why is it that nobody gets this? It is the doctrine, the dogma, the false teaching that he is addressing. If it is to be believed -- he addresses the premise not any actual real God. |
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Edited by
Jess642
on
Sun 04/10/11 02:43 AM
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"My karma ran over your dogma"
With all due respect to you Miles....I find this thread...( I typed threat...freudian typo?) provocative, in a demeaning way. You've set people up to be argumentative and defensive, right from the getgo. You sit within your own solidity, your beliefs....and from that stance have done the 'neenerneenerneener' at anyone who does not share your stance. You have well thought out, intelligent respectful people responding to you....and you continue to challenge in a provocative way...as if to incite disagreement, so that you can reinforce your own beliefs. If your beliefs need reinforcing...then perhaps they are not so solid after all. The 'solid in their beliefs' type of people rarely share their beliefs...they are too busy doing it, to debate it. |
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I say if you are baptised in JC's name and continue in that name you are not saved. That you are decieving yourself. Prove me wrong. for both our good..Shalom..Miles I dont understand the question... are you asking if being baptised in jesus name is a deception if you also live in jesus name? |
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"My karma ran over your dogma" With all due respect to you Miles....I find this thread...( I typed threat...freudian typo?) provocative, in a demeaning way. You've set people up to be argumentative and defensive, right from the getgo. You sit within your own solidity, your beliefs....and from that stance have done the 'neenerneenerneener' at anyone who does not share your stance. You have well thought out, intelligent respectful people responding to you....and you continue to challenge in a provocative way...as if to incite disagreement, so that you can reinforce your own beliefs. If your beliefs need reinforcing...then perhaps they are not so solid after all. The 'solid in their beliefs' type of people rarely share their beliefs...they are too busy doing it, to debate it. Does not any teacher challenge the thought of the day? I do not condemn yet you act. Pagans, aithiest, whatever say derogatory remarks consistantly..Are they inciting? Can a person not have a logical discussion without those who deem the discussion invalid? You all help me prove my poimts.By your saying we search its a lie and when someone can come to thier own conclusions with reasonable thought well. 'neenerneenerneener' Is appropriate. Is this a bait and switch catch 21b? No one cares.. its prophecied.. you hear but you do not see. Blindness is a hollow attribute of the 3rd kind. You know we know thier has to be men from outspace to many planets we are not alone theory. with no proof. When someone shows that people of the earth can have reason to not doubt the scriptures are for real. then you say people of real faith would not have time for this thread.. Thats a good one.. I guess i have alot of mentor company on here. My pointing to JC is not salvation people hate.. it can not be.. even non believers don't like the idea.. how cool is that.. Blessings...Miles |
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I say if you are baptised in JC's name and continue in that name you are not saved. That you are decieving yourself. Prove me wrong. for both our good..Shalom..Miles I dont understand the question... are you asking if being baptised in jesus name is a deception if you also live in jesus name? JC is the prophicied name to come.. not the Messiah. John 5:43-44 43 I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. NKJV He did not come in the name JC. all ministers know that. The Evil one what will he be like? 2 Cor 11:14-15 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. NKJV How many could he decieve? Matt 24:24-25 24 For false chr-sts and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect . 25 See, I have told you beforehand. NKJV The Ministers of Light what are they going to Preach? 2 Cor 11:4 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Yahshua, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel , which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him KJV Did they preach JC? Did they keep the Law? The Evil one who transforms himself into an Angel of Light who decieves almost the whole world.. Could it be Yahshua.. What name did he come in? Or JC who is all over the world and what does his teachings teach? Another Evangel. Thats why we must study to sgew ourself approved and in our time of need Yahweh promices to.. Luke 21:14-19 14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist. 16 You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. 17 And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. 18 But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 19 By your patience possess your souls. NKJV Bringing to rememberance all things.. Thats what the Spirit in Yahshua did when cornered by the pharasees. Thier are many places that tell us what to look for but we don't study so we can not see.. Yahweh will open doors if you will only let him. The name JC has no power anywhere but where people let him. Yahshua did not let him.. Blessings...Miles |
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Miles said to Abra: "You seem to enjoy slamming the Elohim of Abraham as if thats a sore point with you. " Miles, it is the concept of the Biblical God as he is portrayed by men in the Bible that Abra speaks about not about any real God. It is the doctrines they teach that don't make sense that he speaks about. Religion has created or twisted their interpretations of a 2000 year old bunch of writings and now force feed them to the people as some sort of holy book. Why is it that nobody gets this? It is the doctrine, the dogma, the false teaching that he is addressing. If it is to be believed -- he addresses the premise not any actual real God. |
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People do not want to change they like the ways things are so they stay thier. That's not why people behave the way they do. They behave the way they do because they are who they are. Period. Moreover, most people are actually good people. Trust me Miles, you would NOT want to live in a world where the vast majority of people were bad. And that is NOT this world. In this world the vast majority of people are actually quite good. Yahshua we see did good and they killed him for it. That's not why the killed him. The Pharisees incited the mob to have Jesus crucified for blaspheme because they where sick of Jesus badmouthing them and their religious authority. And the people in the mob themselves went along with it because it was in their doctrine that GOD HIMSELF commanded them to kill heathens and blasphemers, and since they had the Pharisees right there egging them on they were certain that they were doing "God's Will". They didn't kill Jesus because they hated him. In fact, most of the people in the mob probably didn't even know anything about Jesus, they were just going along with the crowd. It was the RELIGION itself that allowed for the crucifixion to even take place. The Pharisees could have never gotten away with having someone crucified in "God's Name" had it not already been written in their scriptures that this is what God had commanded men to do! This was a self-destructive religion. In fact, this religion had people going around stone people to death. It was already a very SICK religion before Jesus even came onto the scene. And it was the very SICKNESS of this religion that was the cause of Jesus' own demise. He was probably a Mystic Jew who was trying to get people to change their ways FROM WHAT THE ORIGINAL RELIGION HAD THEM DOING! Jesus (Yahshua as you call him) wasn't the son of the God of the Torah. He was actually trying to get people to quit behaving the way that God-forsaken religion had them behaving. But with Christianity the religion just want from SICK, to SICKER. 1.. I did not say behave I said change. your twisting. 2. Whats sick is making stuff up as we go. no foundation. stick with the facts of believers in JC. You Abra it even upsets.. see how the whole world is decieved if were possible? We do not want to believe it and when the Power of Yahweh is manifested to belief then the world will want to kill the children of Hope. JC is talked about everywhere.The Angel of Light. who comes in sheeps clothing.Its really easy to see if people would take 2 steps back and look again with no pre-deception. i find alot of people who never went to church as a child or knew much untill thier 20's and then read for themselves like any book. come to a completely different conclucion thab jcians.. Blessings..Miles |
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Edited by
Abracadabra
on
Sun 04/10/11 09:07 AM
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Jeanniebean wrote: Miles said to Abra: "You seem to enjoy slamming the Elohim of Abraham as if thats a sore point with you. " Miles, it is the concept of the Biblical God as he is portrayed by men in the Bible that Abra speaks about not about any real God. It is the doctrines they teach that don't make sense that he speaks about. Religion has created or twisted their interpretations of a 2000 year old bunch of writings and now force feed them to the people as some sort of holy book. Why is it that nobody gets this? It is the doctrine, the dogma, the false teaching that he is addressing. If it is to be believed -- he addresses the premise not any actual real God. Truly. These people are so totally absorbed with their religious convictions that they truly can't see the light beyond the dogma they have buried themselves in. I never truly "slam" Elohim of Abraham directly. On the contrary, I show why those fables "slam" themselves! They claim that this "God" is all-wise, all-righteous, unchanging, omniscience, all-powerful, with him nothing is impossible, and the only thing that surpasses his love is his mercy. But then they also go on to tell stories that have this supposed "God" doing unwise, unrighteous things. Changing his relationship with mankind, not knowing things, being far less than "all-powerful", having to actually do desperate things in a truly feeble attempt to communicate with his creation, and showing basically no mercy at all toward "heathens". Just the opposite of the traits this God is supposed to have. So the fables themselves are wildly inconsistent and contradicting. Moreover Miles, it's not any "God" that I have a bone to pick with, it's religious zealots who attempt to use these fables to hold this picture of "God" over the heads of other people. It truly the epitome of arrogance. That's what it amounts to Miles. Look at me Miles, you say that I'm trying to slam Elohim of Abraham, (and it may truly appear that way today), buy you know my history! There was a time when I tried to raise Elohim of Abraham above the Christian fear, hatred, and religious bigotry. I found that to be impossible. The Christians are determined to use this religion to belittle anyone who refuses to cower down to it dogma. Just look at the conversations between Cowboy and myself. I try my very best to use these scriptures to portray the most forgiving, loving, benevolent, fair, God possible. Yet Cowboy is determined to thwart my every effort. He's determined to make God and Jesus into monsters who will hate and condemn everyone who doesn't cower down to his interpretations and views of the dogma. Every time I try to make a case for a potential NICE Jesus, Cowboy steps in and assures me that Jesus is NOT NICE, period amen! Christians will simply not allow for a Jesus that doesn't HATE everyone and anyone who refuses to cower down to the religious bigotry that they have built upon his name. It's the hateful dogmatic machine that I'm slamming Miles. It basically comes down to people using these scriptures to do precisely the following: "You either cower down to my interpretations and views of these scriptures, or I will pronounce you to be 'anti-God', and God himself will forever hate you" This is precisely what makes these "jealous God" religion so hateful. The Christians are out to protect their "Holy Bible" as the only true word of God. The Muslims are out to protect their "Holy Quran" as the only true word of God. And neither doctrine has any real value they should both be tossed in the nearest trash can and we could finally begin to work toward some REAL PEACE. There will never be world peace as long as people are using "God" as an excuse to support and spread hateful religious bigotry. ~~~~~ I also truly question people's motives who press hard for such a hateful unforgiving God. Do they truly believe that God is that untrustworthy and heartless? Or are they just on an extreme ego trip to use a sick demented religion to spread hateful religious bigotry because it fulfills some lustful need to feel powerful on their part? Nothing can make a person feel more egotistically powerful than to convince themselves that they have "God" on their side and that everything they do is to spread "His Word". That alone is an extremely dangerous psychological trap that far too many people fall into. Spreading hatred in the name of a "God" all the while deluding oneself that they are doing this in the name of love.  And they totally refuse to look beyond their delusion. They have convinced themselves that they are doing the work of "God", and that they are spreading "God's Word", so how could they possibly be wrong? They are serving the highest possible purpose anyone can possibly serve. Once a person has convinced themselves that their delusions are true, they gone off the deep end and may potentially never come back down to reality. These "jealous God" religions can cause people to become quite psychotic. Well, just look at the Muslim suicide bombers! It's the very same principle right there. They have convinced themselves that if they tie a bomb around their waist and go kill a bunch of infidels God will be pleased with them and they will become a martyr in heaven. That's the kind of sickness these 'jealous god' religions can incite in people. These fables of Elohim of Abraham are having an extremely detrimental impact on humanity. And that's quite unfortunate. And when you try to point out how ignorant and destructive they can be what do you get in return? You get things like: "You seem to enjoy slamming the Elohim of Abraham as if thats a sore point with you." YES, it is a sore point with me. Those religions are a CANCER on humanity. All they do is cause divisiveness and "believers" arguing with "non-believers" trying to convince the non-believers that if they don't climb on board the religious bigotry wagon God will hate them and condemn them to eternal damnation, be it spiritual death or everlasting punishment, it makes no difference. Condemnation is condemnation. Because what's really being done is that the non-believers are being condemned already by the believers via their very accusations that if you refuse to support their religious bigotry you are refusing to accept and worship "God" And it doesn't even matter if you already have a spirituality of your own. Forget that. Either cower down to their specific religious bigotry or your condemned as refusing to obey God.  It's ignorant and disgusting is what it is Miles. ~~~~~~~~~~ And yes I confess, I spent much of my early life in college classrooms studying the sciences. And to be quite honest I got truly sick of hearing all the religious opposition to science all throughout human history. And it still hasn't stopped even today. Just look at how many Christians are pitting their religion against science and denying evolution, fossil evidence, the age of the earth, and blah blah blah. You'd think they would have learned their lesson by now, but nope, it's the same old ignorance being supported by religious zealots to this very day! They never learn anything. |
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YES, it is a sore point with me. Those religions are a CANCER on humanity. All they do is cause divisiveness and "believers" arguing with "non-believers" trying to convince the non-believers that if they don't climb on board the religious bigotry wagon God will hate them and condemn them to eternal damnation, be it spiritual death or everlasting punishment, it makes no difference. Condemnation is condemnation. Because what's really being done is that the non-believers are being condemned already by the believers via their very accusations that if you refuse to support their religious bigotry you are refusing to accept and worship "God" Not to mention, I am a believer in spirituality and in a pantheistic God that lives in me; and I am told that I am wrong as Christians lay claim to their ownership of God. Only they are allowed to have God. Everyone else be damned. They are foolish in my eyes. |
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People do not want to change they like the ways things are so they stay thier. That's not why people behave the way they do. They behave the way they do because they are who they are. Period. Moreover, most people are actually good people. Trust me Miles, you would NOT want to live in a world where the vast majority of people were bad. And that is NOT this world. In this world the vast majority of people are actually quite good. Yahshua we see did good and they killed him for it. That's not why the killed him. The Pharisees incited the mob to have Jesus crucified for blaspheme because they where sick of Jesus badmouthing them and their religious authority. And the people in the mob themselves went along with it because it was in their doctrine that GOD HIMSELF commanded them to kill heathens and blasphemers, and since they had the Pharisees right there egging them on they were certain that they were doing "God's Will". They didn't kill Jesus because they hated him. In fact, most of the people in the mob probably didn't even know anything about Jesus, they were just going along with the crowd. It was the RELIGION itself that allowed for the crucifixion to even take place. The Pharisees could have never gotten away with having someone crucified in "God's Name" had it not already been written in their scriptures that this is what God had commanded men to do! This was a self-destructive religion. In fact, this religion had people going around stone people to death. It was already a very SICK religion before Jesus even came onto the scene. And it was the very SICKNESS of this religion that was the cause of Jesus' own demise. He was probably a Mystic Jew who was trying to get people to change their ways FROM WHAT THE ORIGINAL RELIGION HAD THEM DOING! Jesus (Yahshua as you call him) wasn't the son of the God of the Torah. He was actually trying to get people to quit behaving the way that God-forsaken religion had them behaving. But with Christianity the religion just want from SICK, to SICKER. In fact, this religion had people going around stone people to death. So people get the death penalty today and the majority sees this as ok. But turn around and say people were sick in those days for doing the same thing as they do now. Seems quite ironic. It was the RELIGION itself that allowed for the crucifixion to even take place. The Pharisees could have never gotten away with having someone crucified in "God's Name" had it not already been written in their scriptures that this is what God had commanded men to do! This was a self-destructive religion. The birth of Jesus was prophesied before hand. It wasn't a surprise to those whom believe(d). It's not like God was up in heaven and just decided to change his laws. This ALL was prophesied before hand. So no, you are incorrect. They were not following the laws of God by crucifying Jesus, for Jesus was prophesied to come. First off, even the Jews, Muslims, and many theologians as well as secular scientists have read these stories and are NOT convinced, and they have ALL the information neatly organized in a single cannon of stories. So not everyone is convinced that Jesus even satisfied any prophecy. The promised messiah was supposed to become the KING of the Jews. But that never happened. So he couldn't have been the messiah. There is absolutely no reason at all for anyone in those days to think that Jesus was anything special. These scriptures that try to make a case that Jesus was "The Christ" didn't appear until several decades after Jesus died (assuming that he ever existed at all) But the people who would have been there live would have absolutely no reason to think that Jesus was anything more than a blasphemer, especially if their scribes and pharisees are pronouncing him as such. Even today, if some guy claimed to be Jesus returning and the Christian Clergy renounced him, all the Christians would renounce him too! Hell's bells, if the leaders of your church are telling you that some guy is a false prophet you're going to believe them! No way, the mob who crucified Jesus were only doing what their God of Abraham had commanded them to do! Kill heathens! And stone sinners to death. That's what they were taught to do, and that was the "Godly" thing to do. So that mob would have been OBEYING the directives of this biblical God when they had Jesus crucified on the pole. All the BLOOD of this event is on the biblical God's hands, and no mortal human can be held responsible. They were just doing what God had instructed them to do. Can't blame them for that. If God didn't want them to KILL people he shouldn't have taught them to KILL people in the first place. There is absolutely no reason at all for anyone in those days to think that Jesus was anything special. These scriptures that try to make a case that Jesus was "The Christ" didn't appear until several decades after Jesus died (assuming that he ever existed at all) And the point being that the "scriptures" didn't appear till decades after Jesus died? While he lived, what would have been the need for the scriptures? There would not have been any, for he was right there. That and it would have been impossible to write all the scriptures while he lived, for the bible contains information on Jesus' life. So how was one to write anything before it happened? And what does it truly matter? Yes it took time to gather ALL the books and information contained in the bible. So that mob would have been OBEYING the directives of this biblical God when they had Jesus crucified on the pole. All the BLOOD of this event is on the biblical God's hands, and no mortal human can be held responsible. They were just doing what God had instructed them to do. Oh but you are incorrect. God told us prophecies of the coming of Jesus. Jesus was prophesied about long before he came. It is not HIS fault that people did not believe he was the one that was prophesied to come. The old testament/old law told us Jesus would come to complete the law and give us a new one. So no they were not doing as God instructed them to do. Yes, they were doing PART of what God had instructed. But failed miserably with particularly Jesus. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 04/10/11 10:46 AM
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Oh but you are incorrect. God told us prophecies of the coming of Jesus. Jesus was prophesied about long before he came. It is not HIS fault that people did not believe he was the one that was prophesied to come. The old testament/old law told us Jesus would come to complete the law and give us a new one. So no they were not doing as God instructed them to do. Yes, they were doing PART of what God had instructed. But failed miserably with particularly Jesus. Oh cut it out with all that prophecy nonsense. You say "God told us prophecies..." Were you there? Did you hear God? Those so-called "prophecies" were WRITTEN DOWN. Later they were read the ideas were stolen.. and then when the Piso Family started writing their scriptures and plagiarizing older scriptures they had all the information they needed to write stories about how those prophecies came to pass. All fiction. None of that can be taken seriously. |
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YES, it is a sore point with me. Those religions are a CANCER on humanity. All they do is cause divisiveness and "believers" arguing with "non-believers" trying to convince the non-believers that if they don't climb on board the religious bigotry wagon God will hate them and condemn them to eternal damnation, be it spiritual death or everlasting punishment, it makes no difference. Condemnation is condemnation. Because what's really being done is that the non-believers are being condemned already by the believers via their very accusations that if you refuse to support their religious bigotry you are refusing to accept and worship "God" Not to mention, I am a believer in spirituality and in a pantheistic God that lives in me; and I am told that I am wrong as Christians lay claim to their ownership of God. Only they are allowed to have God. Everyone else be damned. They are foolish in my eyes. Truly, all the do is spread hatred in the name of Jesus. The religion is the epitome of human arrogance. And it's truly disgusting the way it is used to degrade and belittle people of other spiritual faiths. These proselytizing "Christians" who use the name of Jesus to spread their hatred of all other religions and spiritual faiths deserve absolutely no respect whatsoever, IMHO. I have absolutely no respect for anyone who does that. It's the epitome of spiritual blaspheme. |
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