It is no lie. It is not a historical account. It is stories.
Bible stories. Nobody believes it is historically accurate.
So there is no can of worms.

Here is my question. If Moses is supposed to be a big hero, or an important man of God, why would they write stories about him being a tyrant and ordering these deaths?

So it will make you think. It is important to ask why. Or maybe it
was a rogue co-author. The point is that if you involve yourself in
polite interpretation and analysis there is always a lot to learn.

I view the bible as one of humankind's earliest attempts at ethics
and philosophy and it should be taken as such - a starting point
for such discussions not an end in itself. Most theologians would
easily agree with this and acknowledge the contradictions which are
obvious and not take the bible literally. No mainstream Jewish,
Christian or Muslim theologians suggest that it is appropriate to
take the bible literally because this is absurd.

Wait! I've got it. It was the Devil!

I'm not at all surprise by the results.

The people focused on the illness and the surgery. They did not focus on health or visualize the person healthy. The prayers only made the situation worse because of HOW they visualized.

Your thoughts and visualizations ARE YOUR PRAYERS.!!

"The worshippers starting praying for the patients the night before surgery and for the next two weeks, asking God to grant "a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications".


The person (patient) who was told about the prayer was also focused (even more) on the illness."

The prayer mentioned the words:

SURGERY
SUCCESSFUL
HEALTHY RECOVERY
COMPLICATIONS

WHY THESE WORDS AND PRAYER WERE NEGATIVE AND PRAYING FOR THE OPPOSITE:

"Surgery" paints a serious picture of going under the knife. That is what the people pictured.

"Successful" hints at the possibility that "unsuccessful" was an option. That is what the people thought about.

"Healthy recovery" The word "recovery" indicates and states that the patient is ill. That is what the people thought about and pictured.

"Complications" Suggests that there will be complications. (The word "no" does not negate the visual picture of the complications, as the subconscious thinking stuff does not see negatives....ever.

Conclusion:
People don't know HOW to create what they want and they don't know how to pray correctly.

According to the law of attraction, you get what you think about. You create what you focus on.

They all focused on and thought about complications, illness, surgery etc. They probably also pictured the prayer not working, knowing it was a scientific study.

So did the patient.




So, let me be sure I understand. You are suggesting that god misunderstood the faithful and instead of helping the patients recover, actually made them sicker because they didn't pray the right way?

I'm not at all surprise by the results.

The people focused on the illness and the surgery. They did not focus on health or visualize the person healthy. The prayers only made the situation worse because of HOW they visualized.

Your thoughts and visualizations ARE YOUR PRAYERS.!!

"The worshippers starting praying for the patients the night before surgery and for the next two weeks, asking God to grant "a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications".


The person (patient) who was told about the prayer was also focused (even more) on the illness."

The prayer mentioned the words:

SURGERY
SUCCESSFUL
HEALTHY RECOVERY
COMPLICATIONS

WHY THESE WORDS AND PRAYER WERE NEGATIVE AND PRAYING FOR THE OPPOSITE:

"Surgery" paints a serious picture of going under the knife. That is what the people pictured.

"Successful" hints at the possibility that "unsuccessful" was an option. That is what the people thought about.

"Healthy recovery" The word "recovery" indicates and states that the patient is ill. That is what the people thought about and pictured.

"Complications" Suggests that there will be complications. (The word "no" does not negate the visual picture of the complications, as the subconscious thinking stuff does not see negatives....ever.

Conclusion:
People don't know HOW to create what they want and they don't know how to pray correctly.

According to the law of attraction, you get what you think about. You create what you focus on.

They all focused on and thought about complications, illness, surgery etc. They probably also pictured the prayer not working, knowing it was a scientific study.

So did the patient.




So, let me be sure I understand. You are suggesting that god misunderstood the faithful and instead of helping the patients recover, actually made them sicker because they didn't pray the right way?

I'm not at all surprise by the results.

The people focused on the illness and the surgery. They did not focus on health or visualize the person healthy. The prayers only made the situation worse because of HOW they visualized.

Your thoughts and visualizations ARE YOUR PRAYERS.!!

"The worshippers starting praying for the patients the night before surgery and for the next two weeks, asking God to grant "a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications".


The person (patient) who was told about the prayer was also focused (even more) on the illness."

The prayer mentioned the words:

SURGERY
SUCCESSFUL
HEALTHY RECOVERY
COMPLICATIONS

WHY THESE WORDS AND PRAYER WERE NEGATIVE AND PRAYING FOR THE OPPOSITE:

"Surgery" paints a serious picture of going under the knife. That is what the people pictured.

"Successful" hints at the possibility that "unsuccessful" was an option. That is what the people thought about.

"Healthy recovery" The word "recovery" indicates and states that the patient is ill. That is what the people thought about and pictured.

"Complications" Suggests that there will be complications. (The word "no" does not negate the visual picture of the complications, as the subconscious thinking stuff does not see negatives....ever.

Conclusion:
People don't know HOW to create what they want and they don't know how to pray correctly.

According to the law of attraction, you get what you think about. You create what you focus on.

They all focused on and thought about complications, illness, surgery etc. They probably also pictured the prayer not working, knowing it was a scientific study.

So did the patient.




So, let me be sure I understand. You are suggesting that god misunderstood the faithful and instead of helping the patients recover, actually made them sicker because they didn't pray the right way?

I'm not at all surprise by the results.

The people focused on the illness and the surgery. They did not focus on health or visualize the person healthy. The prayers only made the situation worse because of HOW they visualized.

Your thoughts and visualizations ARE YOUR PRAYERS.!!

"The worshippers starting praying for the patients the night before surgery and for the next two weeks, asking God to grant "a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications".


The person (patient) who was told about the prayer was also focused (even more) on the illness."

The prayer mentioned the words:

SURGERY
SUCCESSFUL
HEALTHY RECOVERY
COMPLICATIONS

WHY THESE WORDS AND PRAYER WERE NEGATIVE AND PRAYING FOR THE OPPOSITE:

"Surgery" paints a serious picture of going under the knife. That is what the people pictured.

"Successful" hints at the possibility that "unsuccessful" was an option. That is what the people thought about.

"Healthy recovery" The word "recovery" indicates and states that the patient is ill. That is what the people thought about and pictured.

"Complications" Suggests that there will be complications. (The word "no" does not negate the visual picture of the complications, as the subconscious thinking stuff does not see negatives....ever.

Conclusion:
People don't know HOW to create what they want and they don't know how to pray correctly.

According to the law of attraction, you get what you think about. You create what you focus on.

They all focused on and thought about complications, illness, surgery etc. They probably also pictured the prayer not working, knowing it was a scientific study.

So did the patient.




So, let me be sure I understand. You are suggesting that god misunderstood the faithful and instead of helping the patients recover, actually made them sicker because they didn't pray the right way?

I'm not at all surprise by the results.

The people focused on the illness and the surgery. They did not focus on health or visualize the person healthy. The prayers only made the situation worse because of HOW they visualized.

Your thoughts and visualizations ARE YOUR PRAYERS.!!

"The worshippers starting praying for the patients the night before surgery and for the next two weeks, asking God to grant "a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications".


The person (patient) who was told about the prayer was also focused (even more) on the illness."

The prayer mentioned the words:

SURGERY
SUCCESSFUL
HEALTHY RECOVERY
COMPLICATIONS

WHY THESE WORDS AND PRAYER WERE NEGATIVE AND PRAYING FOR THE OPPOSITE:

"Surgery" paints a serious picture of going under the knife. That is what the people pictured.

"Successful" hints at the possibility that "unsuccessful" was an option. That is what the people thought about.

"Healthy recovery" The word "recovery" indicates and states that the patient is ill. That is what the people thought about and pictured.

"Complications" Suggests that there will be complications. (The word "no" does not negate the visual picture of the complications, as the subconscious thinking stuff does not see negatives....ever.

Conclusion:
People don't know HOW to create what they want and they don't know how to pray correctly.

According to the law of attraction, you get what you think about. You create what you focus on.

They all focused on and thought about complications, illness, surgery etc. They probably also pictured the prayer not working, knowing it was a scientific study.

So did the patient.




So, let me be sure I understand. You are suggesting that god misunderstood the faithful and instead of helping the patients recover, actually made them sicker because they didn't pray the right way?

I'm not at all surprise by the results.

The people focused on the illness and the surgery. They did not focus on health or visualize the person healthy. The prayers only made the situation worse because of HOW they visualized.

Your thoughts and visualizations ARE YOUR PRAYERS.!!

"The worshippers starting praying for the patients the night before surgery and for the next two weeks, asking God to grant "a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications".


The person (patient) who was told about the prayer was also focused (even more) on the illness."

The prayer mentioned the words:

SURGERY
SUCCESSFUL
HEALTHY RECOVERY
COMPLICATIONS

WHY THESE WORDS AND PRAYER WERE NEGATIVE AND PRAYING FOR THE OPPOSITE:

"Surgery" paints a serious picture of going under the knife. That is what the people pictured.

"Successful" hints at the possibility that "unsuccessful" was an option. That is what the people thought about.

"Healthy recovery" The word "recovery" indicates and states that the patient is ill. That is what the people thought about and pictured.

"Complications" Suggests that there will be complications. (The word "no" does not negate the visual picture of the complications, as the subconscious thinking stuff does not see negatives....ever.

Conclusion:
People don't know HOW to create what they want and they don't know how to pray correctly.

According to the law of attraction, you get what you think about. You create what you focus on.

They all focused on and thought about complications, illness, surgery etc. They probably also pictured the prayer not working, knowing it was a scientific study.

So did the patient.




So, let me be sure I understand. You are suggesting that god misunderstood the faithful and instead of helping the patients recover, actually made them sicker because they didn't pray the right way?

So sorry about so many posts. I didn't think my connection was working.

Basically yes.
But the law of creation, if you understand it, always works.
You obviously don't understand it at all.

Also, you never did define or describe "God."
If you are thinking there is some deity "up there" who speaks and understands English who "misunderstood" the prayer then you are way off the mark.

That is not how the universal law of creation works.

They got exactly what they prayed for. They thought about and visualized complications, illness, surgery, failure etc.

Then did not ask for or think about good health. They were not visualizing good health. They were focused on the illness and the surgery.

The "thinking stuff" of the universe does not speak our English language. It only 'sees' what picture and feeling goes into the thought.

Firstly, I do not see a need to understand your new age BS. If you have even a single scientific study to back it up I'm willing to take a look. But, from what I've read in your other posts, it sounds like it should be in the religion forum and not the science/philosophy forum.

I have said several time, you can define god as you like. That is beside the point. If god is real and has an effect on the universe we should be able to measure that effect.

Never mind. Its a waste of time talking to you too.

BUH BY!

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Actually, I'm very open minded. All anyone needs to do is present me with some good, solid evidence. But, no one is going to piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

Requiring 'evidence' is not being open minded.
I have plenty of evidence. But I don't have time to try to prove something to you. You are too set on your own agenda. I don't think your are open minded in the slightest.

Abracadabra knows a lot about my evidence for the law of vibration and the universal law of creation.

We live in a thought created universe, everything is vibration.

We create it.

You are wasting your time trying to prove there is no God.
What a useless pursuit. You could be creating something of value.

What a waste.

Its as silly as trying to prove that YOU don't exist.

Perhaps you should use your imagination. Imagine the possibilities. Don't just demand "evidence." That is really the lazy way.

Do you believe this to be true, in general? In general, I think that 'requiring evidence' is exactly what intelligent and open-minded people do. Its only when we refuse to consider evidence that we are being close minded.

Yes that is also closed minded. But closed minded are also people who refuse to consider possibility or theory.

I am referring to the orthodox scientific method of evidence through clinical trials etc. such as the scientific study of prayer done in 2006 mentioned in this thread conducted by people who have no clue what they are doing or how the universal law works.
Hell, they don't even know about the universal law. No doubt its too "new age" for them to consider.

They are working with the OLD TESTAMENT and claims that praying to God can help to heal people. How stupid is that? Can it even be called "scientific?"

That is the reason I said I was amazed that someone even did such a study.

The reason for the study is probably because it did work in some cases. Well those cases were probably ones where the "prayer" or visualizations were executed correctly, and faith and belief were strong.

I would be more eager to see this kind of study done using people who understand the universal law of creation, law of attraction and vibration. People who know how it works.

The bottom line in this so-called "study" is that it is not scientific in the common sense of the word, and it was not done correctly. Therefore the results are misleading and faulty.

The scientific approach would be to look at a larger body of evidence where people claim that "thought" and "belief" can effect things in this reality.

Examples would be hypnotism, and placebos.

If they are basing the reason for the study on a few cases where prayer appeared to cause a miracle cure, then they should investigate those particular cases and interview the subjects extensively about how the prayer was conducted and what kinds of visual pictures were involved, how much faith was involved, and how much belief in the results was present.

Also the subject or questions "Does prayer work, or Does prayer have the power to heal people," has nothing to do with the title of the thread "The God Hypothesis" because it seems to suggest the existence of a God, does not describe what they mean by that term, or which God they are referring to.

And TexasScoundrel's question seems to be more about his theory that
if god is real and has an effect on the universe we should be able to measure that effect.

You can't possibly measure the effect of something until you identify what you are talking about. Is it the Christian's concept of God? Is that a conscious single entity who hears prayers? You have to be a bit more clear on that.

I know from personal experience that my thoughts and feelings have an effect on people, things and events in my life. That is all prayer is. It is a thought, a feeling or a visual picture.

Next question is how does this thought effect things, and how can you measure the effects? I don't know the answer to that.

In order to measure anything you have to have a system of measurement. For example one quanta is a hypothetical increment of measurement in the quantum world. One Planck is a hypothetical measurement of time.

Is there really a "thinking stuff" that sees and responds to your thoughts or prayers? I believe there is. This is a thinking universe and a thought created holographic reality. This is not "new age" b.s as you call it. There is scientific evidence to back this up.

There is no real substance to this material reality. It is a reflection of light and sound vibrations. It works like a hologram.

Read a book called "The Holographic Universe." There are respected physicists and scientists who will back this up.

There are real scientific avenues to explore than what these so-called scientists are doing with this study. They are just getting a bunch of People to pray to their idea of a deity and none of these people involved really know how the law of creation and vibration, light, sound, feeling and thought works.