what I think is that the truth, as discussed, is USUALLY something that has been ACCEPTED as true, but doesnt necessarily have to BE TRUE

individually, I dont think any of us have VERIFIED those documents as having been from the accepted source or time(how could we),,,,I think we put our faith in someone at some point to VALDATE something and then we repeat that validation often enough until it becomes a widely accepted truth,,,but what if those people we trust are sometimes full of crap,,,,,?,,,IT still will come down to having faith in SOMEONE or SOMETHNGS version of facts and truth

I am not sure what kind of records exist from the first century period.

Most of what we know of anyone that lived in and around that period has been passed down through text and spoken word.

I doubt that there is any verifiable evidence that could be presented to prove someones existence beyond a reasonable doubt.

In this sense I agree with you Miles. I do recognize the spiritual truths of Jesus. It's extremely unfortunately that those truths have been lost and overshadowed by the idea that Jesus was the sacrificial lamb of the God of Abraham sent to "pay for our sins". That misunderstanding is a gross atrocity, IMHO.

But it's the way things are. And anyone who attempts to expose the fallacy of those views is perceived by the Christians to be out to destroy "The Christ".

This is quite unfortunate indeed.

WOW that's a good one!

It means Jesus is the only way to the father. The last part says "No man comes to the father except by me"

The way I see the messages attributed to Jesus, is that they came from that inner part of us that is connected to divine source, or God.

For me, they are very meaningful, it is the message, not the messenger that is the key. So for me, it does not matter one way or another if Jesus was a real or fictional character. The message is the key.

Exactly.

Also the words, "No man comes to the father except by me" would need to be taken in the same spiritual sense.

He wasn't saying, "No man comes to the father except by me - the mortal man named Jesus"

But rather he was saying, "No man comes to the father except by me - the spiritual inner-self which is the core of every human being"

So again, placing the mortal man Jesus up on a pedestal misses the point of the spiritual message entirely.

I agree. That is why you hear so often that you must go within yourself to find the kingdom of God.

Jesus said, "I am THE way, and THE truth, and THE life."

His words speak for themselves. If you are lost, and want to be found, Jesus is the way.
If you are in doubt, and want truth, Jesus is the way.
If you are struggling and want everlasting life, Jesus is the way.

freakyshiki2009,

You repeat the words like a parrot, but I want you to tell me what the words actually mean to you.

That is what the words mean to me.

Also, all kidding aside, I'm sorry about invading the Science and Philosophy area, and that you feel hurt by what I wrote. That's not what I tried to do. No worries, I will back away from that area. I thought that atheists can come here, and believers can go there.

Although I do not agree with you, if you are posting, and someone (like myself) is causing you to be upset, that's not Christian. I will not respond to your posts on there.

I hope you accept my apology.

Shiki

You are allowed to create your own post in the Science and Philosophy forum if it relates to Science and Philosophy. You can probably talk about whatever you want. If a moderator sees fit to move your thread to another forum that is up to them.

What I object to is your posting your religious beliefs in my thread when clearly they are your religious beliefs, not science and when I had clearly told you that I am aware of your beliefs.

I made this thread because I really do want to actually discuss what the things you posted actually mean to you and why.

You know, when someone apologizes, the good thing to say is, "I accept your apology."

I will put it to you the same way I put it to Cowboy.

Okay lets get real now. I mean literal. If I am lost, and want to be found, Jesus is the way? How so? And what exactly do you mean by "lost?" All that is metaphorical.

Your other statements did not answer the question.

What did Jesus mean when he said, "I AM THE WAY."
What did he mean when he said, "I AM THE TRUTH."
What did he mean when he said, "I AM THE LIGHT"

These are metaphorical statements. What do they mean to you?

"I accept your apology."

(if it is really sincere.)

Jesus (to me) walked the planet as a highly evolved and spiritual man WAAAAY ahead of his time. He taught a message of love and forgiveness that has since been tragically twisted. I believe he performed 'miracles' and when he told us..these things I do and so can you..well, he meant that literally.
He did not hang on that cross for me...

Religion.--- religions are many, Who have many Gods. And churches are structures built by man for social , political and monetary control over society. And priests and preachers and reverends alike are the tools to sustain and influence those means to that end.

People say - I do not believe in God anymore or his scripture. I have lost faith in heaven. Just because their priest or preacher or their church has lied, stolen, deceived and mislead it's followers by committing the very sins they so strongly condemn in the Lords name and threaten with the punishment of Hell everlasting.


Wake up ye of no faith, weak faith, brittle souls and weak easily led minds. Church is not God nor are those who convey his word. they are structures and people. - God is not there. that is not God you are looking at or listening to. You have to find God your self and find that connection in your own heart and mind - that is the true faith and religion of strength and salvation. No one else can make that eternal bond for you - but you yourself. all else is just trappings to share and rejoice in what you have found.
If you let man and his structures dictate your sense of truth - Then you are nothing more than an easily led soul, a follower shallow and easy to manipulate a sheep truly lost.
My wife and her family do not believe in god and never have and they have always put it down as a joke - But when my wife almost died after a critical surgery in 2009 - in intensive care on that bed and barely alive while they were trying to bring her back. all she kept saying over and over to no one but the air God please do not let me die - I do not want to die, God please help me. --- And her father who died twice during heart surgery and went into cardiac arrest in recovery was crying and pleading God I do not want to die ,Please do not let me die. It's funny human beings to deny -put down -renounce God and salvation - Until they reach that final moment and taking their last breaths - that like scared lost little children full of fear and the cold embrace of death - that cry and beg and plead with God to spare us return us to the light of life and escape the final darkness. No one cries out save me Satan or doctor or nurse or brother or sister or mom or dad or please my best friend don't let me die or please my wife save me from Death. It is God who our dying soul calls and reaches out to in moments of desperation and despair not science or worldly vices. It's God - all you self righteous, self indulged ego, self opinionated masses.
And the theory of evolution might have been so - But the elements and the space in which those little pieces of life could develop and exist were created - because nothing has nothing in it or the properties in which to birth life and spawn creation - God did this. God was the Big bang. And I will guarantee that you all, even the most evil and wicked. Will call his name in their final moments as the light fades to black and death closes your eyes and shuts your mouth forever. vanity an arrogance blinds and veils us until death collects the debt we all have to pay. So good luck with your souls arrival at it's next destination. There are no returns , refunds , trades or exchanges with the purchase of life it has no dates or times of expiration. that term of contract is not disclosed to the holder only the lender..... And your next purchase is waiting to be opened - gets closer every passing day and those are numbered.

jesus, to me, is the guy that mows my yard...jesus rodriguez

"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.” Matthew 16:18




I agree the church, for christians, is the followers of Jesus

and we also refer to the building in which we congregate and worship as a church

as a human, I walk and live amongst believers and non believers, and I choose to seek out those places where believers go as opposed to non believers,,,,the church building(for me) is a place where I am not battling with the temptations and sinful promotions of the culture and can instead be filled with Gods word and surrounded by others who love the Lord and his word....


its like a school. the school building teaches noone, it is just the BUILDING in which teaching(some teaching, but not all) goes on..

i always thought he was just another psychopath...

Oh and I think I forgot to post what God/Jesus means to me.

"The light in my darkest of hours"