Obviously. Posting an english definition, and discussing english meanings, is direct evidence that the writer is completely oblivious to the existence of other languages.

not at all, but english is my first language so the one Im most familiar to speak/post on

Was i talking about existence of other languages??

For all of us...Reality is always just a belief & nothing else.Our senses are limited.We are really unable to sense the TRUTH.

It will be just overconfidence & nothing else if anyone says:

Whatever I saw & assumed is TRUTH.
Whatever I heard & percepted is TRUTH.
Whatever I said & explained is TRUTH.
Whatever I sensed & considered is TRUTH.

Finding the Naked truth is a real difficult job.....your search for the TRUTH ends when you start believing whatever you found is a TRUTH.(And mind it well...most of the time it is not the TRUTH) This always depends on your confidence level,dominance,caringness, hardworking ability & overall nature, your culture etc. etc.

Many of us always believe that whatever he / she is believing in, is only the truth & whoever is opposing it is either a lier or a foolish,dull person who dont know anything.

In fact each & every conflict in the universe is just due to the fact that no one is knowing the TRUTH & no one is accepting that whatever he/she is believing in is NOT TRUTH.

I believe that a TRUTH can never be completely described in words.

For example "The Sun comes up daily" is a simple,well known & general knowledge level TRUTH for all of us.If Any one says that this is not true....people will laugh at him;But the fact is that the sun never leaves its place in the universe.

I absolutely agree. You and Spider are both correct regarding the various veils we have separating us from an accurate perception of reality. Yet, reality exists, and some beliefs are provably false.

The reality of truth about reality is that its not a static thing.
[that applies to both reality and truth]

If what you just posted is the truth then:

If "truth and reality are always changing", then eventually it will become true that "truth and reality don't change" and then it won't change again.

Reality and truth don't change, our perceptions of reality and truth change. Reality and truth are absolutes.

Truth is the understanding of the way things are. Not the way things should be.

then how did u said that I'm wrong???

In my question I've cleared in the begining only as..."For us (the poor mortal human beings)..."

Dont it mean that I already know whatever ur trying to tail about existence of TRUTH / REALITY.

How can anyone have a doubt about existence of TRUTH & REALITY...??

Ur explanation is very funny.....at first u r saying that actually I'm wrong & then u r telling me that u r absolutely agree to me & moreover explaining me the existence of REALITY.

For ur ready refrence your comment about my question is pasted below.
QUOTE:

Q2.: For us (the poor mortal human beings)...reality is just a belief. Am I right?


No, actually, you are wrong. This is one of the more poisonous lies promoted by otherwise intelligent people.

the difference between fact and opinion
evidence and assumption

unfortunately too few know the difference between 2nd & 3rd hand garbage (oops, I mean gossip/assumption) and the facts

I agree with massagetrade though. The use of language is very important to understanding - especially regarding topics of another culture- the more diverse the culture from your own, the more important the language becomes in describing concepts of the society & beliefs of that culture - foreign languages often fall short in explanation

Prashan,

I noticed when you ventured off into the science section that you seem very prone to underestimating other people in these forums, and to respond with only the most superficial understanding (misunderstanding) of their words.

It seems to me that the question you are posing is: "Why do you say that you disagree with me, and that you agree with me?" You not only seem to be posing this question, you seem to believe there is some kind of inconsistency here.

I'm tempted to leave this to you to answer, as I dislike wasting my time conversing with people for whom this answer isn't obvious.

I both agree with you and disagree with you, because you made more than one statement.

You were correct when you said:



and when you said:



and you were wrong when you said:



If you read back through the thread, you will see that my statements of agreement and disagreement were made in those contexts.

Adding emphasis:



These veils exist, but they are not insurmountable. And the idea that "reality is just a belief" is one a terrible and ludicrous proposition advanced by some otherwise intelligent and perceptive people.

and what crazy logic brings you to that absurd conclusion.

that is totally untrue.
constant change is just that.... constant change.

you may find a truth that does not change but you will never find all or even most truth unchanging.

good luck with that quest.

This is a good topic. When I was young like a teenager or so. I had social anxiety and depression pretty badly. And one thing that helped out was a close friend of mine and how he spoke. I would not exactly call it a spade but it was very truth orienteted and based upon fact and correctly defining a persona or situation or persons charecter and after living with him it rubbed off on me. And thrtough out life the idea that was based on has helped me quite considerebly.

Truth is not static. How? Let us think in this way:
1) In olden days it was believed (or rather it was taught by holy books)that the earth is in the centre and heavenly bodies sun,moon,stars etc are revolving around it.If I am correct it was 'Galilo' who pointed out the reverse and he was harrased, imprisioned by the then knowledgable persons calling him a sinner(going against the truth;what is written in holy book that is the truth).Now we know he was right.
2)Light,an important topic of physics.The great scientist Newton explained so many properties of light with his 'corpuscular'theory and it was believed that light is made uo of corpuscule.This theory could not explain all mystries of light. Then came existance of 'wave' theory of light. It explained so many unsolved problem of light.But this theory was also not sufficient to explain so many things which can be explained by corpusclar theory.Now it is assumed light has dual property,both wavy & corpuscle.
3)At one stage it was believed that matter could not be dissolved beyond its molecule.But then atom was discovered.Atom was the tiniest.Then came existance of electron, proton and neutron.
So as our knowledge increases our concept of truth also changes.
We adopt so many unfair means to obtain personal benefit;actually it does not increase our level;but if we try to obtain the same thing with full honesty it will certainly increase ourlevel.In this thread I tried to get idea of this only.

so then, it is our intellects' (collective) ability to perceive a truth ans it's facets that evolves rather than the truth itself?

molecules have been with us far longer than our ability to understand them. So it is we who change?

Well...I dont think I'm wrong while asking this question. Bcoz,plenty of people decides reality as per their convenience,they are not bothered about what the fact is.

You can notice this mainly when few common men makes funny statements about some gr8 personalities....as someone in this topic said that mahatma gandhi slept naked with young girls.

For this poor fellow reality is limited upto his belief only.

He will keep arguing that whatever he is commenting is only the TRUTH & everything else is false as if he has witnessed that occassion.

The fact that Gandhi slept with young girls isn't even debated. It's a well know fact, which has been confirmed by those close to him and some of the girls. If you can't accept that, then you are the one with a problem concerning reality.

you are the one who seems to have a problem with it. It is not something I would do, I may not find it acceptable within my culture or morality, but it does not affect my interest in Gandhi's teachings.

This is the very essence of my issue with the religious right in the US, the self righteous diversions from the integrity of a discussion to wallow in moral outrage that serves no real function, diverts from any progress in advancing ideas or solutions, and defies the truth of non judgement found in their own religion of Christianity.

Jesus said I shouldn't condemn people for their actions, I haven't.

Let's look at what I did: I mentioned Gandhi's predilection for sleeping naked with young girls. I didn't comment favorably or unfavorably about his habits. In a thread about truth, many of you seem outraged that I have typed the truth. And not because it's not true, but because I'm a right wing Christian.

well I in fact do not accept your word that it is the truth- and wonder if what your agenda is in mentioning it - truth or not, because the mention of it serves no purpose. I also think it wise to avoid religious extremism within any religion for obvious current & historic reasons. I am Catholic, not non Christian - just to clarify.

I also wonder how adept you are at evaluating the sources of your information, and the potential agenda of those sources. Quite honestly spider, I myself was the subject of a rather vicious set of rumors several years ago that had virtually no truth to them and the purveyors were the religious right in the community where I lived. The experience has made me forever skeptical.

I do not entirely agree that you have been non judgmental. My perception is that the statements were made as to judge. Or they would not have been made. I seldom debate these things, but this seemed particularly insidious. I wish you good day and bid you adieu - I have things I need to attend to. Have a good afternoon!