Never claimed Jesus was the father. Was showing what was infered in him saying "the father and I are one". Was explaining, my dad and I are one, you and your dad are one ect ect. In no way is Jesus the father.And this right here straight up shows that.

Luke 6:37
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased

Heck, I would have loved to asked Jesus if he knew what he was doing would lead to the deaths of millions in his name and seen if he would go through with his suicide.

Frankly Jesus could have saved himself with a word on three occasions. Pontious Pilate wanted nothing to do with Jesus's condemnation hence him "washing his hands of the whole thing." If Jesus would have spoken up he could have walked...

Luke 6:37
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased

This is extremely problematic in terms of the overall fable. Because the New Testament also has Jesus saying:


John.8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


Here we clearly have Jesus claiming to exist before Abraham even was.

So in what way would Jesus have been the "son" of God?

The whole fable of the New Testament rests on the idea that Jesus was "Fathered" by God through the Virgin Mary. And it is in this sense that Jesus is a demigod, or the "Son" of God.

However, since Jesus claimed to have existed before Abraham, and thus long before Mary herself had ever been conceived, then in what sense could Jesus have been the 'son' of God? Who was Jesus' true mother then?

If Jesus had no mother, then in what way could he have been the "Son" of God?

If God merely created him from nothing, then he would be no different from anyone else including Satan. In this sense Jesus and Satan would be brothers. Not only that but all mortal men would also be the "sons" of God.

The fable is a mish-mash of ideas that truly clash. If Jesus is the "Only Begotten Son" of God, and he was begat by the Virgin Mary, then he clearly could not have existed before Abraham.

So this fable has extremely problems.

IMHO, Jesus was a pantheist. His claim that "Before Abraham was I am", is a pantheistic statement meaning that we are all eternal spirit every single one of us.

Also the idea that some guy claims that a 'voice from heaven' said something to a crowd clearly didn't come from Jesus!

Jesus himself never made any such claims.

In fact most of the crap in the New Testament that is attributed to Jesus really had nothing at all to do with Jesus. Jesus himself never claimed to be the "Only Begotten Son" of any God. That's was John's OPINION. Not the words of Jesus.

When you read the New Testament you really need to be careful and pay close attention to what these guys are actually saying. Sometimes they are claiming to quote Jesus, other times they are just offering their own opinions and views.

In fact, I personally see no reason to even trust that their supposed "quotes" of Jesus should be accepted as accurate. They quoted a man decades after he supposedly lived, and they are quoting him in the clearly slanted bias of what they would like to believe is true about the man. So it make sense that they would take anything he might have said and slant it toward what they would like to believe.

There can be no doubt that the men who wrote the New Testament clearly had an agenda to try to make out that Jesus was the "Christ" or the "Messiah". Their entire manuscripts are aimed at building a case for that conclusion. The Jews themselves were not impressed by their arguments, and neither am I.

There's far too many conflicting notions. Like Jesus being a demigod born of a virgin making him "The Only Begotten Son" of God, and then having Jesus himself being quoted as having supposedly said, "Before Abraham was I am". Well duh?

If he existed before the Virgin Mary then who was his true mother and in what way could he have been the "son" of God?

Clearly these myths were build up from the very same type of myths that had been associated with Greek Mythology and Zeus. Zeus had many sons, some were demigods like Jesus (half God and have mortal) because Zeus gave birth to a moral woman who had a son. Hercules would be an example of a demigod.

However, Zeus also had "god" sons that were born of female Gods that he impregnated. For example Apollo was supposed to be the son of Zeus born of Leto. Artemis was his twin sister goddess who was born at the same time.

These Biblical fantasies really aren't all that different from Greek Mythology at all when you get down to the real nitty gritty.

So if Jesus was the son of God before Abraham existed, then Jesus must have been born of a Goddess. Otherwise what sense would it make to say that he's the "Son" of God anymore than any other being that God created?

In the Biblical fable Jesus would need to be the "son of God" twice over. Once, before Abraham existed, and then again through the virgin Mary. No wonder he was telling everyone that they need to be "born again" he's the only one who ever experienced such a thing.

John.8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


Here we clearly have Jesus claiming to exist before Abraham even was.

John 1:1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.

John 1:14
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Jesus is the word made flesh.

What did God do during that eternity before he created everything? If God was all that existed back then, what disturbed the eternal equilibrium and compelled him to create? Was he bored? Was he lonely? God is supposed to be perfect. If something is perfect, it is complete--it needs nothing else. We humans engage in activities because we are pursuing that elusive perfection, because there is disequilibrium caused by a difference between what we are and what we want to be. If God is perfect, there can be no disequilibrium. There is nothing he needs, nothing he desires, and nothing he must or will do. A God who is perfect does nothing except exist. A perfect creator God is impossible.

Kind of irrelevant and pointless to ponder on such things. But for your enlightenment i pondered on it a bit. And came to the conclusion that we may not have been or are going to be the only "earths" our father has or will create. It is not important to know what our father has been doing or will do in the future, for it is none of our business.

And no he wasn't lonely, for there are angels in heaven now.

But according to John 1:1 "the word was God"

So if Jesus is the word, then Jesus is God, not the son of God.

Besides, John's ramblings can be taken in a multitude of ways. What is John even referring to when he refers to the "Word". Clearly by John 1:1, the "Word" cannot be referring to the Torah or any of mankind's writings since he claims that in the beginning was the "Word".

Actually if you study ancient mysticism, and in particular the various occults of Egypt, you'll see that the very idea of the "word" never had the literal meaning that we give it today. On the contrary, the original term that was used just as easily translated into "form".

In the beginning was the form, and the form was with God, and the form was God. That's a pantheistic statement. Everything is a form of God.

In fact, when you transcribe "form" into "word" it really presents a totally incorrect picture of what the original mystics had in mind. It makes no sense at all really. Words before form existed would be meaningless because there would be nothing for the words to refer to.

Even so, if we take the idea that Jesus was "The Word", in the sense that John seems to be implying, then clearly Jesus was God because "The word was God", and not the son of God. Where does it say that the Word is the 'son' of God?

It's just a bunch of nonsense is all it amounts to. A play on words. Just like you keep talking about Jesus having fulfilled laws. You can't fulfill a law. You can break a law, or ignore a law, or change a law, but you can't fulfill a law. That makes absolutely no sense at all.

I see that you are trying desperately to make some sort of sense out of this ancient fable, but the truth is that it's nonsense.

The God of Abraham was "I Am"... Jesus was using parables saiding that "I Am" existed before Abraham ....he wasn't claiming that he was "I Am" because he was born from a woman and that was his alpha...

well the thing is iam not clueless,when moses was given the torah "the book of genesis" it just simply states how god created everything,not why he did,oh then your rebuttal "well be he is god you cannot question why he did what he did",well duh it's just an easy scape goat

No, Jesus is the word made flesh. The word was with our father from the begining. Our father is the alpha and the omega, the begining and the end.

all humans are the word made of flesh...the word is that from God that he used to create... if Jesus was God there would be no need for him to call out to God...my God my God why hath thou forsaken me...no matter how many angles or theories it's just no way around that

Jesus is not our father lol. Jesus is the word of our father made flesh.

all humans are the word made of flesh...the word is that from God that he used to create... if Jesus was God there would be no need for him to call out to God...my God my God why hath thou forsaken me...no matter how many angles or theories it's just no way around that