Community > Politics, Current News & Events

Topic: 9/11 Father: 'I Don't Understand All of This Hate'
s1owhand Joined Fri 05/18/07 Posts: 29437	Wed 09/15/10 07:54 PM
fortunately no one blames all Muslims for the actions of the specific organized Islamic terrorists who are involved in a large number of war crimes killing innocent people in the name of Islam around the globe - since that would be idiotic. If that were true there wouldn't be a protest to a mosque. So it can't be true. There are many reasons to protest a specific mosque besides blaming Muslims in general for 9/11. For instance, the one which is being referred to as the ground zero mosque. People protest it because they find it distasteful to have a large Islamic center erected in the shadow of the site of a coordinated Islamic terrorist attack which killed thousands in the name of propagating Islam. No one blames anyone but the terrorists. But many still find the idea of having a large multistory Islamic center erected adjacent to the site to be in poor taste. If instead, a group of Christian terrorists blew up a block of buildings killing thousands in Saudi Arabia destroying a large Saudi building complex and then some other Christians totally unaffiliated with the terrorists proposed building a multistory Christian center near the site of the massacre...it might be seen as distasteful as well. You can candy coat it as much as you like but it is still punishing Muslims for 9/11. It is not a punishment to relocate an Islamic recreation center and mosque away from an Islamic terrorist attack site. But the overwhelming majority of Americans find it extremely insensitive to put a large institution promoting Islam adjacent to a place where thousands were killed in the name of Islam.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Wed 09/15/10 07:57 PM
It is a punishment to not allow it where it was being put at.

s1owhand Joined Fri 05/18/07 Posts: 29437	Wed 09/15/10 08:03 PM
fortunately no one blames all Muslims for the actions of the specific organized Islamic terrorists who are involved in a large number of war crimes killing innocent people in the name of Islam around the globe - since that would be idiotic. If that were true there wouldn't be a protest to a mosque. So it can't be true. There are many reasons to protest a specific mosque besides blaming Muslims in general for 9/11. For instance, the one which is being referred to as the ground zero mosque. People protest it because they find it distasteful to have a large Islamic center erected in the shadow of the site of a coordinated Islamic terrorist attack which killed thousands in the name of propagating Islam. No one blames anyone but the terrorists. But many still find the idea of having a large multistory Islamic center erected adjacent to the site to be in poor taste. If instead, a group of Christian terrorists blew up a block of buildings killing thousands in Saudi Arabia destroying a large Saudi building complex and then some other Christians totally unaffiliated with the terrorists proposed building a multistory Christian center near the site of the massacre...it might be seen as distasteful as well. You can candy coat it as much as you like but it is still punishing Muslims for 9/11. It is not a punishment to relocate an Islamic recreation center and mosque away from an Islamic terrorist attack site. But the overwhelming majority of Americans find it extremely insensitive to put a large institution promoting Islam adjacent to a place where thousands were killed in the name of Islam. It is a punishment to not allow it where it was being put at. No, people are protesting the plan to locate it there because they think it shows outrageous insensitivity to have an (enormous) Islamic recreation center and mosque located where thousands of innocent Americans were slaughtered by Islamic terrorists in the name of Islam.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Wed 09/15/10 08:10 PM
It doesn't disrespect anything. The Muslims here did not do 9/11 so there is no disrespect. There is however hatred and discrimination or bigotry.

Redykeulous Joined Thu 11/09/06 Posts: 6052	Wed 09/15/10 08:51 PM Edited by Redykeulous on Wed 09/15/10 09:02 PM
I just wanted to reiterate a few of those statistics – for those who feel Muslims have not ‘conformed’ to our culture, perhaps they have not - this can be proven by contrasting just a couple statistics: According to Census data, 37.8 percent of U.S. adults age 25 to 34 have college degrees. 2007 census figures Bachelor’s degree or more Advanced degree or more 27.5 percent of population 10.1 percent of population The figures are from the census bureau 2007, and those percentages include Muslim citizens. HOWEVER, within the Muslim population itself, the percentages are much higher 67% with Bachelor’s degree and One in ten American Muslims have physician/medical doctor certifications. While the average income in the 2000 was $42,158 66% of Muslims were earning over $50,000 and 26% of Muslims were earning over $100,000 Which appears to be a direct reflection of the educational achievements in the Muslim community Maybe it’s not so bad that Muslims have not conformed to ALL of our cultural norms, relatively few receive public aid and the 92% of Muslims who earn significantly more than most Americans, pay enough in taxes to cover for the Muslims who do receive public aid as well as a substantial portion of non-Muslim public aid recipients. Muslim contributions (donations) to charitable organizations is also a considerable sum. Since they support for their ‘fellow American citizens’ through these donations, through their education, and their work achievements and taxes, perhaps they have ‘conformed’ in ways that are less noticeable and more beneficial than maintaining a cultural standard of physical appearance. Maybe the U.S. Muslim community has earned a place as part of the diversity we value in the United States. While they may have religiously based preduice, unlike many Christians in this country, they have not spent 'billions' of dollars to keep a descrminatory policy in our laws. So why not let the Muslims spend a smaller portion of those billions to build a community center NEAR 'ground zero?' Isn't it amazing that Christians will spend billions to keep some people from marrying but so little in keeping another religion from building thier Masque at a site that (some) seem to think the vast majority of American oppose???? American Muslims are Well-Educated • 67% of American Muslims have a Bachelor's degree or higher • 44% of Americans have a Bachelor’s degree or higher3 • The Variance for Advanced Degrees is even greater. • One in ten American Muslim HH has a physician / medical doctor American Muslims are Affluent • U.S. Average income is $42,158 per year (U.S. Census 2000) • 66% of American Muslim HH's earn over $50,000 / year • 26% of American Muslim HH's earn over $100,000 / year

Thomas3474 Joined Mon 11/10/08 Posts: 2713	Wed 09/15/10 09:03 PM
I just wanted to reiterate a few of those statistics – for those who feel Muslims have not ‘conformed’ to our culture, perhaps they have not - this can be proven by contrasting just a couple statistics: According to Census data, 37.8 percent of U.S. adults age 25 to 34 have college degrees. 2007 census figures Bachelor’s degree or more Advanced degree or more 27.5 percent of population 10.1 percent of population The figures are from the census bureau 2007, and those percentages include Muslim citizens. HOWEVER, within the Muslim population itself, the percentages are much higher 67% with Bachelor’s degree and One in ten American Muslims have physician/medical doctor certifications. While the average income in the 2000 was $42,158 66% of Muslims were earning over $50,000 and 26% of Muslims were earning over $100,000 Which appears to be a direct reflection of the educational achievements in the Muslim community Maybe it’s not so bad that Muslims have not conformed to ALL of our cultural norms, relatively few receive public aid and the 92% of Muslims who earn significantly more than most Americans, pay enough in taxes to cover for the Muslims who do receive public aid as well as a substantial portion of non-Muslim public aid recipients. Muslim contributions (donations) to charitable organizations is also a considerable sum. Since they support for their ‘fellow American citizens’ through these donations, through their education, and their work achievements and taxes, perhaps they have ‘conformed’ in ways that are less noticeable and more beneficial than maintaining a cultural standard of physical appearance. American Muslims are Well-Educated • 67% of American Muslims have a Bachelor's degree or higher • 44% of Americans have a Bachelor’s degree or higher3 • The Variance for Advanced Degrees is even greater. • One in ten American Muslim HH has a physician / medical doctor American Muslims are Affluent • U.S. Average income is $42,158 per year (U.S. Census 2000) • 66% of American Muslim HH's earn over $50,000 / year • 26% of American Muslim HH's earn over $100,000 / year Kinda of ironic you are here supporting a religion that supports killing gays where they stand. Next time you are ranting and raving about how harmful Christianty is towards gays I won't mind posting a few of your words supporting Islam and see what you have to say about your double standards.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Wed 09/15/10 09:06 PM
The prejudice that is being perpetrated is the problem. Not the doctrines of the religion. No religion wants their doctrines examined too closely because they will come out on the losing end.

Atlantis75 Joined Wed 12/03/08 Posts: 8581	Wed 09/15/10 09:10 PM
Did anyone actually knew, that there was an Islamic prayer room in the WTC? Because there was, and also there is another one not far from Ground Zero. Operating since the 70s or 80s.

TonkaTruck3 Joined Fri 02/12/10 Posts: 852	Wed 09/15/10 09:36 PM
Well, it looks like their prayers came true!! Since they are praying for the destruction of America, they had a pretty good start.

Redykeulous Joined Thu 11/09/06 Posts: 6052	Wed 09/15/10 09:50 PM
I just wanted to reiterate a few of those statistics – for those who feel Muslims have not ‘conformed’ to our culture, perhaps they have not - this can be proven by contrasting just a couple statistics: According to Census data, 37.8 percent of U.S. adults age 25 to 34 have college degrees. 2007 census figures Bachelor’s degree or more Advanced degree or more 27.5 percent of population 10.1 percent of population The figures are from the census bureau 2007, and those percentages include Muslim citizens. HOWEVER, within the Muslim population itself, the percentages are much higher 67% with Bachelor’s degree and One in ten American Muslims have physician/medical doctor certifications. While the average income in the 2000 was $42,158 66% of Muslims were earning over $50,000 and 26% of Muslims were earning over $100,000 Which appears to be a direct reflection of the educational achievements in the Muslim community Maybe it’s not so bad that Muslims have not conformed to ALL of our cultural norms, relatively few receive public aid and the 92% of Muslims who earn significantly more than most Americans, pay enough in taxes to cover for the Muslims who do receive public aid as well as a substantial portion of non-Muslim public aid recipients. Muslim contributions (donations) to charitable organizations is also a considerable sum. Since they support for their ‘fellow American citizens’ through these donations, through their education, and their work achievements and taxes, perhaps they have ‘conformed’ in ways that are less noticeable and more beneficial than maintaining a cultural standard of physical appearance. American Muslims are Well-Educated • 67% of American Muslims have a Bachelor's degree or higher • 44% of Americans have a Bachelor’s degree or higher3 • The Variance for Advanced Degrees is even greater. • One in ten American Muslim HH has a physician / medical doctor American Muslims are Affluent • U.S. Average income is $42,158 per year (U.S. Census 2000) • 66% of American Muslim HH's earn over $50,000 / year • 26% of American Muslim HH's earn over $100,000 / year Kinda of ironic you are here supporting a religion that supports killing gays where they stand. Next time you are ranting and raving about how harmful Christianty is towards gays I won't mind posting a few of your words supporting Islam and see what you have to say about your double standards. May that be a lesson others can learn from. I would not take away the basic human right of people to choose thier religion. I promote the ideal even though some beliefs condem me, and I expect reciprication by those who enjoy their freedom to condem me on the same level - to support my own rights to equal protection, justice, and equality under the law. I do not hate Christians, I do not hate Muslims, but I will not tolerate the efforts of any religion to use their freedom of personal choice as a platform from which to institutionalize prejudice and discrimination as it is reflected through their choice of religious values.

mightymoe Joined Sun 11/19/06 Posts: 37362	Wed 09/15/10 09:51 PM
your boy, pat robertson...

Thomas3474 Joined Mon 11/10/08 Posts: 2713	Wed 09/15/10 09:59 PM
America is a bizarre place.Probably the only country in the World where the people are so stupid the speak up for and support a man who is building a church that supports Sharia law. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/imam-feisal-abdul-rauf/what-shariah-law-is-all-a_b_190825.html Ground zero mosque founder Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf’s support for Sharia law. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT8s1a1E4nk Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf’s in his own words on video. http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=38750 Instead, doubts grow about the moderation of Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf’s voice. Rather, it seems as if the words above would leave him tongue tied. •Just 19 days after September 11 — while Ground Zero still was a flaming, smoking ruin — Rauf told CBS’ 60 Minutes: “I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened, but the United States’ policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.” •Rauf said in 2005 that “the United States has more Muslim blood on its hands than al-Qaeda has on its hands of innocent non-Muslims.” Never mind the millions of Muslims who America has liberated, or at least tried to rescue from tyranny, in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Iraq, Lebanon, and Somalia. America assisted millions more Muslims after the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami and is aiding Muslims today in flood-ravaged Pakistan. •Rauf repeatedly has refused to identify Hamas as a terrorist group. •Most worrisome, Rauf embraces Sharia, the fundamentalist Islamic Law responsible for too much of Earth’s totalitarian barbarism. “What Muslims want is to ensure that their secular laws are not in conflict with the Quran or the Hadith, the sayings of Muhammad,” Rauf wrote in an April 24, 2009 Huffington Post essay titled “What Sharia Law Is All About.” Rauf added: “What Muslims want is a judiciary that ensures that the laws are not in conflict with the Quran and the Hadith.” He also has written that he wants to secure “religious communities more leeway to judge among themselves, according to their laws.” Sharia relies on the Koran, Hadith, and other Islamic texts to punish offenders, too often with sentences that stink of the 7th Century A.D. •A Saudi Sharia court is seeking a hospital to enforce its penalty against an unidentified man who paralyzed Abdulaziz al-Mutairi, 22, in an assault with a meat cleaver. Under Sharia’s “eye for an eye” principal, Judge Saoud bin Suleiman al-Youssef wants to paralyze the attacker by severing his spinal cord. To their credit, Saudi doctors so far have refused to cooperate in this carnage. •Under Iran’s Islamic Law, The Guardian reports, 12 women and three men face death by stoning for adultery. After international criticism, Iranian jurists recently announced that several of these individuals instead would be hanged. •Since Muslims implemented Sharia in northern Nigeria in 2000, at least 12 people have received death sentences for homosexuality and adultery. Most, however, have been commuted to mere jail time. •Since January, women in West Aceh, Indonesia must wear long skirts rather than jeans or trousers. Police enforce this rule, sometimes by cutting the pants that women are caught wearing. “It’s my obligation as a leader to help the people so they won’t suffer in the afterlife,” West Aceh Regent Ramli Mansur said in August 18’s Jakarta Globe. “Besides, when women don’t dress according to Sharia law, they’re asking to get raped.” •Once a Muslim, always a Muslim, according to Sharia. “Muslim jurists are unanimous that apostates must be punished,” the Muslim Brotherhood’s influential spiritual leader, Sheik Yusuf al-Qaradawi, declared about Islamic converts to other faiths. The Qatari said these “apostates must be executed.” •Even snacking can be deadly under Sharia. In November 2004, a 13-year-old Iranian boy violated the Ramadan fast. He received 85 lashes, which killed him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia#Homosexuality Homosexuality Homosexual activity is illicit under Sharia; however, the prescribed penalties differ from one school of jurisprudence to another. For example, these Muslim-majority countries may allow the death penalty for sodomy and homosexual activities: Iran,[170] Mauritania,[171] Nigeria,[172] Saudi Arabia,[173] Somalia,.[174] In contrast in Indonesia (outside of Aceh province[175]) homosexuality and sodomy are legal.[176] http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/08/top_ten_reasons_why_sharia_is.html . Islam commands that homosexuals must be executed. In February 1998, the Taliban, who once ruled in Afghanistan, ordered a stone wall to be pushed over three men convicted of sodomy. Their lives were to be spared if they survived for 30 minutes and were still alive when the stones were removed. In its 1991 Constitution, in Articles 108—113, Iran adopted the punishment of execution for sodomy. In April 2005, a Kuwaiti cleric says homosexuals should be thrown off a mountain or stoned to death. On April 7, 2005, it was reported that Saudi Arabia sentenced more than 100 men to prison or flogging for 'gay conduct.' These homosexuals were lucky. Early Islam would have executed them, as these hadith demonstrate.

Atlantis75 Joined Wed 12/03/08 Posts: 8581	Wed 09/15/10 10:02 PM
America is a bizarre place.Probably the only country in the World where the people are so stupid the speak up for and support a man who is building a church that supports Sharia law. Are you a Muslim?

Thomas3474 Joined Mon 11/10/08 Posts: 2713	Wed 09/15/10 10:04 PM
I just wanted to reiterate a few of those statistics – for those who feel Muslims have not ‘conformed’ to our culture, perhaps they have not - this can be proven by contrasting just a couple statistics: According to Census data, 37.8 percent of U.S. adults age 25 to 34 have college degrees. 2007 census figures Bachelor’s degree or more Advanced degree or more 27.5 percent of population 10.1 percent of population The figures are from the census bureau 2007, and those percentages include Muslim citizens. HOWEVER, within the Muslim population itself, the percentages are much higher 67% with Bachelor’s degree and One in ten American Muslims have physician/medical doctor certifications. While the average income in the 2000 was $42,158 66% of Muslims were earning over $50,000 and 26% of Muslims were earning over $100,000 Which appears to be a direct reflection of the educational achievements in the Muslim community Maybe it’s not so bad that Muslims have not conformed to ALL of our cultural norms, relatively few receive public aid and the 92% of Muslims who earn significantly more than most Americans, pay enough in taxes to cover for the Muslims who do receive public aid as well as a substantial portion of non-Muslim public aid recipients. Muslim contributions (donations) to charitable organizations is also a considerable sum. Since they support for their ‘fellow American citizens’ through these donations, through their education, and their work achievements and taxes, perhaps they have ‘conformed’ in ways that are less noticeable and more beneficial than maintaining a cultural standard of physical appearance. American Muslims are Well-Educated • 67% of American Muslims have a Bachelor's degree or higher • 44% of Americans have a Bachelor’s degree or higher3 • The Variance for Advanced Degrees is even greater. • One in ten American Muslim HH has a physician / medical doctor American Muslims are Affluent • U.S. Average income is $42,158 per year (U.S. Census 2000) • 66% of American Muslim HH's earn over $50,000 / year • 26% of American Muslim HH's earn over $100,000 / year Kinda of ironic you are here supporting a religion that supports killing gays where they stand. Next time you are ranting and raving about how harmful Christianty is towards gays I won't mind posting a few of your words supporting Islam and see what you have to say about your double standards. May that be a lesson others can learn from. I would not take away the basic human right of people to choose thier religion. I promote the ideal even though some beliefs condem me, and I expect reciprication by those who enjoy their freedom to condem me on the same level - to support my own rights to equal protection, justice, and equality under the law. I do not hate Christians, I do not hate Muslims, but I will not tolerate the efforts of any religion to use their freedom of personal choice as a platform from which to institutionalize prejudice and discrimination as it is reflected through their choice of religious values. Oh thats funny .You have any idea what you are talking about?You are supporting Islam because you have been defending it through and through since this post started.You have no said anything negative at all about Islam from any of your posts. Out of all the religions in this world Islam is most hostile towards gays.Yet you support this church 100%. Don't let me stop your ranting on the evil Christians the next time we debate the gay marriage issue and how Christians are the worst of the worst.We can just ignore the news reports of women being stoned and gays executed in the name of Islam.

Thomas3474 Joined Mon 11/10/08 Posts: 2713	Wed 09/15/10 10:05 PM
America is a bizarre place.Probably the only country in the World where the people are so stupid the speak up for and support a man who is building a church that supports Sharia law. Are you a Muslim? No I am Christian.

Thomas3474 Joined Mon 11/10/08 Posts: 2713	Wed 09/15/10 10:15 PM
I just wanted to reiterate a few of those statistics – for those who feel Muslims have not ‘conformed’ to our culture, perhaps they have not - this can be proven by contrasting just a couple statistics: According to Census data, 37.8 percent of U.S. adults age 25 to 34 have college degrees. 2007 census figures Bachelor’s degree or more Advanced degree or more 27.5 percent of population 10.1 percent of population The figures are from the census bureau 2007, and those percentages include Muslim citizens. HOWEVER, within the Muslim population itself, the percentages are much higher 67% with Bachelor’s degree and One in ten American Muslims have physician/medical doctor certifications. While the average income in the 2000 was $42,158 66% of Muslims were earning over $50,000 and 26% of Muslims were earning over $100,000 Which appears to be a direct reflection of the educational achievements in the Muslim community Maybe it’s not so bad that Muslims have not conformed to ALL of our cultural norms, relatively few receive public aid and the 92% of Muslims who earn significantly more than most Americans, pay enough in taxes to cover for the Muslims who do receive public aid as well as a substantial portion of non-Muslim public aid recipients. Muslim contributions (donations) to charitable organizations is also a considerable sum. Since they support for their ‘fellow American citizens’ through these donations, through their education, and their work achievements and taxes, perhaps they have ‘conformed’ in ways that are less noticeable and more beneficial than maintaining a cultural standard of physical appearance. American Muslims are Well-Educated • 67% of American Muslims have a Bachelor's degree or higher • 44% of Americans have a Bachelor’s degree or higher3 • The Variance for Advanced Degrees is even greater. • One in ten American Muslim HH has a physician / medical doctor American Muslims are Affluent • U.S. Average income is $42,158 per year (U.S. Census 2000) • 66% of American Muslim HH's earn over $50,000 / year • 26% of American Muslim HH's earn over $100,000 / year Kinda of ironic you are here supporting a religion that supports killing gays where they stand. Next time you are ranting and raving about how harmful Christianty is towards gays I won't mind posting a few of your words supporting Islam and see what you have to say about your double standards. May that be a lesson others can learn from. I would not take away the basic human right of people to choose thier religion. I promote the ideal even though some beliefs condem me, and I expect reciprication by those who enjoy their freedom to condem me on the same level - to support my own rights to equal protection, justice, and equality under the law. I do not hate Christians, I do not hate Muslims, but I will not tolerate the efforts of any religion to use their freedom of personal choice as a platform from which to institutionalize prejudice and discrimination as it is reflected through their choice of religious values. Kind of sucks Mingle saves your posts doesn't it. Your own words. "Immediate harm occurs when selected religious values are reflected in the law of a culture who do not share that religious perspective". Maybe you can debate yourself on that one.

Thomas3474 Joined Mon 11/10/08 Posts: 2713	Wed 09/15/10 10:36 PM Edited by Thomas3474 on Wed 09/15/10 10:37 PM
The prejudice that is being perpetrated is the problem. Not the doctrines of the religion. No religion wants their doctrines examined too closely because they will come out on the losing end. You can debate your self also. In your own words... "No your god is not any part of my life except in those laws influenced by religion that I fight against". "How about YOU DON'T JUDGE ME OR MY LIFE BASED FROM YOUR GOD THAT GOVERNS ONLY YOU AND THOSE WHO WANT TO BE GOVERNED BY HE/SHE/IT. Then we will all be treating each other fairly because I am not imposing my beliefs on you". "As long as the belief that religion is the "better" way to live and makes one "a better" person and improves lives, fixes issues, etc.... we will continue to be berated by these individuals who feel superior, act with "justified" hatred, live a hypocrisy, trying to impose their skewed views on everyone as if it is right, etc...." "Religion actually brings out the worst in humans for the most part. It promotes passive aggressive behavior. It promotes hypocrisy. It promotes superiority". "Religions are the reasons for many many problems in this world we live in. It makes people feel justified by an imaginary larger than life being to persecute and ostracize those that a man or men have determined were unethical for whatever reason they determined and they wrote it a book and then said the book was from a god or gods. Worse it makes falsely makes the determination of who is superior and who is worthy. It creates the concept of non self responsibility because outside sources determine actions of humans". The books are also written in ambiguous ways to leave room for dangerous interpretation by men in power to control others. Most of the books are the greatest works of fearmongering ever written. Carry on defending Islam and this church being built.