Next time you see JC breath, walk, talk, and such be sure to let me know.

As far as representations go if it is the image of anything on the earth or in the heavens it is a graven image if people are using it for spiritual things.

Therefore the cross, crucifix, a statue of a saint, a picture of Jesus, or any other image that seeks to be a conduit between us and God is an IDOL.

AdventureBegins,

"Therefore the cross, crucifix, a statue of a saint, a picture of Jesus, or any other image that seeks to be a conduit between us and God is an IDOL. "

We agree. But Jesus is God, he isn't one of those things.

Spider, if Jesus is God, why did he refer to God as his father?

spider you are still following custom. Why is thier 144000 saints in Rev 14? Could it be that they follow the word and not tradition. Yahshua could not be touched it would of made him unclean to go before Yahweh to wave the wave sheaf to start the count to Pentecost. (Read about the purity of Arron) You sure fooled me you broke from tradition that is good. Do you keep Passover as Easter is not in the bible? How about the other High Days? Now your 70 weeks I will show you where it comes in it is the prophesy of the destruction of the physical temple.
1st we must start with what daniel was being told..

Dan 9:1-2

In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the lineage of the Medes, who was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans — 2 in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, understood by the books the number of the years specified by the word of Yahweh through Jeremiah the prophet, that He would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.
NKJV
Notice 70 years in the destruction of Jerusalem.
and what did Jeremiah say?

Jer 25:12-15
Then it will come to pass, when seventy years are completed, that I will punish the king of Babylon and that nation, the land of the Chaldeans, for their iniquity,' says Yahweh;'and I will make it a perpetual desolation. 13 So I will bring on that land all My words which I have pronounced against it, all that is written in this book, which Jeremiah has prophesied concerning all the nations. 14(For many nations and great kings shall be served by them also; and I will repay them according to their deeds and according to the works of their own hands.)'"
NKJV

This is the prophesied destruction of the Temple Yahshua said he would tear down. No one knows for sure when the temple was destroyed but i will believe the prophesy.

It goes back and force between 70 years and 70 weeks. It made Daniel faint and get sick.

The middle of the week he did make the oblation and sacrafice to cease..

Dan 9:26-10:1
"And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood, (= people)
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.( didn't Yahshua do this?)
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate."


NKJV
Dan 9:24

24 "Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
NKJV
70 weeks are apperently to be together. Not wait several thousand years.
Where is satan shown with wings?

Dan 9:27
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
NKJV

Mal 4:2-3
But to you who fear My name
The Sun of Righteousness shall arise
With healing in His wings;
And you shall go out
And grow fat like stall-fed calves.
3 You shall trample the wicked,
NKJV
Yahshua has healing wings. Also it is to those who fear his NAME.

The desolation at that time was the Temple keepers not the temple. They desocrated it.

John 2:13-22

Now the Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Yahshua went up to Jerusalem. 14 And He found in the temple those who sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers doing business. 15 When He had made a whip of cords, He drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers' money and overturned the tables. 16 And He said to those who sold doves, "Take these things away! Do not make My Father's house a house of merchandise!" 17 Then His disciples remembered that it was written, "Zeal for Your house has eaten Me up."

18 So the Jews answered and said to Him,"What sign do You show to us, since You do these things?"

19 Yahshua answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." (destroy it when?)

20 Then the Jews said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?"

21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Yahshua had said.
NKJV
It was not the temple who made the temple an abomination it was the Pharisees and scribes. What was thier duty?

Isa 56:7-11

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

8 Yahweh Elohim which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.( see the pharasees and scribes wanted to kill Yahshua early on because they knew these verses spoke of them)

9 All ye beasts of the field, come to devour, yea, all ye beasts in the forest.

10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.

11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
KJV
This is why the temple was destroyed. Yahshua raised in 3 days being the 1st born of the dead. The prophecy of the temple destruction was prophesied also in 70 years from Yahshua's birth.
Your traditions have no idea about that prophesy.
So daniel 9;27 is not speaking of the man of perdition. No the destruction of the temple. This is why so many disciples thought Yahshua was returning in thier time. Escially when the temple was destroyed. So what about Yahshua's quote he made?

He speaks of comming down off your housetops. This was only in thier day as the housetops was like thier deck of today. Even the Torah speaks of protecting your nieghbor on the house top. Also Peters vision was on his housetop.
So what is he speaking of? again the religious Elite who defile the temple. We know a man of sin will stand up and declare himself Elohim. But we are the Temple. If the jews build a Temple. they would not flee from someone declaring themselves Elohim. They would fight to the death as they have before. And why would we be warned about a temple made with hands? The Abomination is already thier waiting for the man of sin to stand up. Why is the whole world fooled? another Elohim is what this desolation is? One who sits in a temple mocking Yahweh. But contrary to popular belief he will be thier a short time.
Rev 12:12
Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time."
NKJV

Not 3 1/2 years. he is ticked off because the 2 witnesses he was not allowed to kill for 3 1/2 years. When he does the world rejoices and then says..
Rev 13:4
So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying,"Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?
NKJV
The 2 witnesses could not, they believe.

I will just say the 2 sons of Abraham have fought for the 1st bornship forever. But one was from a hand maiden and the other of promice. The abomination that makes desolate will not stand for long at all. He will go after all who claim Yahweh as Elohim and kill them. The 144000 rose with the 2 witnesses the dead 1st though. A mockery that the world will not see comming. A temple who has been in plain sight. A people who rally's with the beast and those who have been decieved for so long through tradition. Thier leaders are also called abominations. They lead many to destruction. you do not have to agree with me. And many won't. Yahweh saves and thats what's the purpose and what counts.. Blessings miles

Differentkindofwench,

The Father and the Son are joined by the Holy Spirit. They are two entities joined with one spirit and one will. The Son obeys the Father in all things, not because He isn't equal, but out of love. So they are both God, but the Father is in a position of authority over the Son.

Thou shalt have no gods before me. (not even that of my son)

Spider who saves us the father or the son?... Miles

Milesoftheusa,

I'm not playing your games.

It is a truth you do not want to accept. This is what Yahshua I am afraid to say abolish. Everyone who calls on the name of Yahweh shall be saved.. HalleluYah..... Miles

Spider

do you realize what you just said could be interpurted that you believe their are two gods, The father and The son. If Jesus is God then there should not be "The Father" Should there?

MSD

No man can serve two masters.

There is but one God.

As Jesus was born of woman he is a creation for that makes him seed of Adam and Adam was a creation of the One God, the Most Great that-which-is-all-things.

The great I am.

Milesoftheusa,

Yawn. I get it, you are the only true Christian. You know my every thought. I get it. You have proven time and again that you have no idea what I believe, only what people who belong to your particular branch of Christianity believe. Have fun, find someone else, I don't wanna play.

A_Midsummers_Dream,

It's a difficult concept, I know. Jesus serves the will of the Father completely. All things in the universe worship God the Father, including Jesus. He is our High Priest and commands us to worship the Father. Jesus is equally worthy of worship and allows people to worship him, but that is because what glorifies the Son glorifies the Father. There is only one God. We are told that when we get married, we become one flesh. A perfect marriage would have two people who served each other completely, so that where one begins and one ends cannot be determined. The Father and the Son are both male, but their relationship is what our relationship with God should be like. They are united in will and spirit. When the Son acts, the Father is in total agreement. When the Father acts, the Son is in total agreement.

TRADITION TRADITION TRADITION

Spider
If that should be our relationship with god, then why do people worship JESUS, who infact was a man. One God means exactly that, 1 GOD. Not two combined but 1. You get on people about not worshiping one god when you yourself worship two: the Father and the Son. No matter how a like they are there are still two of them, correct?

Tra-Di-Tion, Done with a really good accent, Miles, like in Fiddler on the Roof..........

A_Midsummers_Dream,

"You get on people about not worshiping one god when you yourself worship two"

When have I done this?

I have posted an explaination, you don't get it, so you say that I worship two Gods. I try to be open about my beliefs and answer your questions and you spit in my face, that's really nice.

It's a difficult concept, I'm sorry that you don't get it. It's a sticking point for many people. Show a little more respect for me and what I believe or our conversation is done.

Spider if following Jesus leads one to the Father and a person follows that path then what.

They have found the Father. Why then would they continue to follow the path to the Father when they have found the Father?

Once found would a person not be right to leave off the path TO the Father and follow the path the Father points out to them?

Big Trout slaps miles. miles tries to wake up..

Spider
You speak of respect when you insult others for not having your beliefs. Such as TLW, AB, myself. I do thank you for sharing and I am very glad for you that you have found absolution. You say I need to respect you or we're done speaking to one another, but is that because I don't respect you, or because I don't respect your god? My personal feeling is that you'll talk to someone but it's believe may way or get out of it.

MSD