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Topic: Evidence against evolution.
no photo
Sat 07/10/10 08:27 AM
Edited by Kings_Knight on Sat 07/10/10 08:28 AM


(Pssssst ... hey ... people ... the OP is SATIRE ... it's not real ... )
hello of course it is - oh and BTW - the reason a man cannot scramble an egg is because of a biological principle called differentiation where organisms evolving simulataneously in a habitat develop individualized ecological niches. Apparently egg scrambling is not his "niche":wink:


That's SO sexist ... ! I can scramble eggs just fine ... better, in fact, than some women I've known ... 'differentiation' ... HA ... !

We don't need no steenkin' 'differentiation' ...

mightymoe's photo
Sat 07/10/10 08:31 AM

QUOTE:
all evolution comes from splitting of another species. zebra's and horses, bears - raccoons - wolverines,the lists goes on.


I'm curious what definition of 'evolution' you are using when you make this claim. One (maybe) could say that 'all species diversification' comes from the splitting of another species species, but evolution occurs regardless of whether a species splits.
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what else can evolution be? it's all a splitting, or branching off from a different species... once the animals started walking on land, they formed sub-species, and then they in turn split off into something different, and it just kept going for billions and billions of years. and yes, thats our oldest living (marmoset) animal that we can trace our dna from.

no photo
Sat 07/10/10 09:21 AM


I'm astounded at how easy it is to unintentionally troll people who simply aren't paying attention.


I know it would have been simpler to have just told him, but I prefer to see evidence of other peoples ability to find flaws in their own thinking.



lol...how's that going for ya?

Seakolony's photo
Sat 07/10/10 10:07 AM


QUOTE:
all evolution comes from splitting of another species. zebra's and horses, bears - raccoons - wolverines,the lists goes on.


I'm curious what definition of 'evolution' you are using when you make this claim. One (maybe) could say that 'all species diversification' comes from the splitting of another species species, but evolution occurs regardless of whether a species splits.
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what else can evolution be? it's all a splitting, or branching off from a different species... once the animals started walking on land, they formed sub-species, and then they in turn split off into something different, and it just kept going for billions and billions of years. and yes, thats our oldest living (marmoset) animal that we can trace our dna from.

Examples of this process would be the Walphin (dolphin/whale mating kept at the Hawaiian Aquarium)....or the deadliest spider mating of the brown recluse/black widow creating the brown widow......but certain species when mating with another species causing offspring that nature's selection creating sterile offspring incapable of reproduction extincting that particular species especially in certain feline lines........

no photo
Sat 07/10/10 01:47 PM
Edited by massagetrade on Sat 07/10/10 01:48 PM

all evolution comes from splitting of another species. zebra's and horses, bears - raccoons - wolverines,the lists goes on.

I'm curious what definition of 'evolution' you are using when you make this claim. One (maybe) could say that 'all species diversification' comes from the splitting of another species species, but evolution occurs regardless of whether a species splits.


what else can evolution be?


Excellent question. First, lets look at the key necessary distinction here, which will require repeating things you already know (so don't be offended).

Splitting: You have a land-based species 'A'. A portion of that population migrates across a narrow land bridge to another land mass, and water levels rise covering the land bridge. Now there are two separate groups of that same species. The gene pools of both groups will change over time, and eventually a point will be reached where they can no longer successfully interbreed to produce offspring which can interbreed. The original species has split into two new species.

This may be an essential process for the creation of a larger number of separate species, but it is not the essence of what evolution is. Evolution was the process by which those two separate populations, separately, experienced such a large degree of change in their gene pools over time. Each group evolved, and their evolution eventually rendered them unable to interbreed.

In this scenario, if they had never split into two groups, the one population would still evolve. Evolution is necessary for splitting, but splitting is not intrinsic to evolution.

So far, I've said what evolution isn't (species splitting) but as far as what it is, I've just said it has something to do with change in a gene pool. IIRC (and I probably don't), my high school bio teacher gave a specific, technical definition that was based on the the variation of the frequency of each allele in a gene pool.

I don't necessarily trust merriam webster for science definitions, but just for perspective they say "a theory that the various types of animals and plants have their origin in other preexisting types and that the distinguishable differences are due to modifications in successive generations; also : the process described by this theory". In other words - the process by which one species becomes a different type, with distinguishable differences from their ancestors - not necessarily from another isolated subgroup of their ancestors which continues to evolve simultaneous along a separate path.

The first two sentences of the wikipedia article clarify this further, but you have to pay careful attention to word usage:

Evolution is the change in the inherited traits of a population of organisms through successive generations.[1] After a population splits into smaller groups, these groups evolve independently and may eventually diversify into new species.

The two groups evolve independently. Is isn't the splitting which is the evolution, the splitting makes the evolution (which occurs anyway) occur independently.


Another way of looking at this: if you created a miniature isolated ecology (like on a huge space station) with a scant one thousand species on it, and did not give any species opportunity to form separate isolated groups (all members had access to mate with all other members), you would have no splitting. You would never obtain more than one thousand species in that ecology. Yet, those one thousand species would still continue to evolve.


it's all a splitting, or branching off from a different species... once the animals started walking on land, they formed sub-species, and then they in turn split off into something different, and it just kept going for billions and billions of years. and yes, thats our oldest living (marmoset) animal that we can trace our dna from.


You are correct that the overall story for how evolution brought about the current level of diversity of life is all about the splitting and branching off - but that process is not part of the definition of evolution. The "process of evolution" is not the same as "the whole story of how all animals came to be." This is a common misunderstanding that is used as a basis for creationist straw man arguments against evolution - they attack various ideas associated with evolution (like abiogenesis) without understanding exactly to what the word refers.

mightymoe's photo
Sat 07/10/10 01:55 PM


all evolution comes from splitting of another species. zebra's and horses, bears - raccoons - wolverines,the lists goes on.

I'm curious what definition of 'evolution' you are using when you make this claim. One (maybe) could say that 'all species diversification' comes from the splitting of another species species, but evolution occurs regardless of whether a species splits.


what else can evolution be?


Excellent question. First, lets look at the key necessary distinction here, which will require repeating things you already know (so don't be offended).

Splitting: You have a land-based species 'A'. A portion of that population migrates across a narrow land bridge to another land mass, and water levels rise covering the land bridge. Now there are two separate groups of that same species. The gene pools of both groups will change over time, and eventually a point will be reached where they can no longer successfully interbreed to produce offspring which can interbreed. The original species has split into two new species.

This may be an essential process for the creation of a larger number of separate species, but it is not the essence of what evolution is. Evolution was the process by which those two separate populations, separately, experienced such a large degree of change in their gene pools over time. Each group evolved, and their evolution eventually rendered them unable to interbreed.

In this scenario, if they had never split into two groups, the one population would still evolve. Evolution is necessary for splitting, but splitting is not intrinsic to evolution.

So far, I've said what evolution isn't (species splitting) but as far as what it is, I've just said it has something to do with change in a gene pool. IIRC (and I probably don't), my high school bio teacher gave a specific, technical definition that was based on the the variation of the frequency of each allele in a gene pool.

I don't necessarily trust merriam webster for science definitions, but just for perspective they say "a theory that the various types of animals and plants have their origin in other preexisting types and that the distinguishable differences are due to modifications in successive generations; also : the process described by this theory". In other words - the process by which one species becomes a different type, with distinguishable differences from their ancestors - not necessarily from another isolated subgroup of their ancestors which continues to evolve simultaneous along a separate path.

The first two sentences of the wikipedia article clarify this further, but you have to pay careful attention to word usage:

Evolution is the change in the inherited traits of a population of organisms through successive generations.[1] After a population splits into smaller groups, these groups evolve independently and may eventually diversify into new species.

The two groups evolve independently. Is isn't the splitting which is the evolution, the splitting makes the evolution (which occurs anyway) occur independently.


Another way of looking at this: if you created a miniature isolated ecology (like on a huge space station) with a scant one thousand species on it, and did not give any species opportunity to form separate isolated groups (all members had access to mate with all other members), you would have no splitting. You would never obtain more than one thousand species in that ecology. Yet, those one thousand species would still continue to evolve.


it's all a splitting, or branching off from a different species... once the animals started walking on land, they formed sub-species, and then they in turn split off into something different, and it just kept going for billions and billions of years. and yes, thats our oldest living (marmoset) animal that we can trace our dna from.


You are correct that the overall story for how evolution brought about the current level of diversity of life is all about the splitting and branching off - but that process is not part of the definition of evolution. The "process of evolution" is not the same as "the whole story of how all animals came to be." This is a common misunderstanding that is used as a basis for creationist straw man arguments against evolution - they attack various ideas associated with evolution (like abiogenesis) without understanding exactly to what the word refers.


i kinda see what your saying, and i don't disagree...i guess, since it got a little off topic, that was i was saying is that evolution never stops, it's so slow we can't always see it. that is why it is hard for some people to accept it.

wux's photo
Sat 07/10/10 07:12 PM
Man, man evolved from God. "And He created him in His own image."

Thank God for capital letters. If there weren't any, this sentence alone would have created not only man, but an infinite amount of discussion sorting out the antecedents of the different Himns an Hisns.

By the way, capital letters can only exist because lower case letters exist, too. So let's all give a minute of silence to the man, woman, or God who created lower case letters.

redonkulous's photo
Mon 07/12/10 06:46 PM

and i don't think god will send you to hell for believing in evolution...
He already has in my case, and its this apartment! Cant wait to find a house!

mightymoe's photo
Mon 07/12/10 06:48 PM


and i don't think god will send you to hell for believing in evolution...
He already has in my case, and its this apartment! Cant wait to find a house!


laugh

hell is a perception!
laugh

metalwing's photo
Tue 07/13/10 05:13 PM


(Pssssst ... hey ... people ... the OP is SATIRE ... it's not real ... )
hello of course it is - oh and BTW - the reason a man cannot scramble an egg is because of a biological principle called differentiation where organisms evolving simulataneously in a habitat develop individualized ecological niches. Apparently egg scrambling is not his "niche":wink:


Actually some men have evolved beyond egg scrambling to the finer nuances of the much higher evolved "omeletting"... a process involving global awareness and advanced multitasking.

no photo
Tue 07/13/10 06:51 PM



(Pssssst ... hey ... people ... the OP is SATIRE ... it's not real ... )
hello of course it is - oh and BTW - the reason a man cannot scramble an egg is because of a biological principle called differentiation where organisms evolving simulataneously in a habitat develop individualized ecological niches. Apparently egg scrambling is not his "niche":wink:


Actually some men have evolved beyond egg scrambling to the finer nuances of the much higher evolved "omeletting"... a process involving global awareness and advanced multitasking.


That's true ... the more advanced omelette-makers of the species use heavy cream in place of the standard tablespoon of water per egg, too ...

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