Topic: Prop 8/anti-gay argument... Is the earth UNDER populated?
Kleisto's photo
Thu 06/17/10 08:16 PM




People who are born Black or born Asian are born that way and can not change that fact.Gays are not born that way because they can choose who they want to love and have sex with.I have yet to see a person who for what ever reason was unable to make a descision because they said making that descision was mentally impossible.


Yes gay people can choose who they have sex with, same as straight people. Does not in any way mean we can choose who we are attracted to, and a person attracted to the same sex is by definition either gay or bisexual, regardless of whether those feelings are acted upon or not.



And NO ONE, gay, straight, bi, whatever, can choose who they WANT to love.


So are you saying if someone loves someone but the relationship is unhealthy, they don't have the choice to leave? That idea is utterly asinine.


Gay is not unhealthy.


I didn't even mean a gay relationship neccessarily, I meant any relationship. Gay, straight or whatever.

VacantDreamer's photo
Thu 06/17/10 08:16 PM
Edited by VacantDreamer on Thu 06/17/10 08:17 PM



Yes gay people can choose who they have sex with, same as straight people. Does not in any way mean we can choose who we are attracted to, and a person attracted to the same sex is by definition either gay or bisexual, regardless of whether those feelings are acted upon or not.



And NO ONE, gay, straight, bi, whatever, can choose who they WANT to love.


So are you saying if someone loves someone but the relationship is unhealthy, they don't have the choice to leave? That idea is utterly asinine.


When in any part of my response did I make anything CLOSE to that statement??

Thomas3474's photo
Thu 06/17/10 08:17 PM







I didn't say everyone was born gay.I am saying there are millions of people in the last 20 or so years that were formally gay and decided to turn straight.I personaly know of at least 3 women including one who was my girlfriend for 3 years who said they were formally lesibans and turned straight.I have read countless stories of movie stars,musicians,and others who were formally gay and changed their mind and got married to people of the opposite sex.

How many women out there have had some type of fling including a sexual relationship with another woman at some point in their life?I wouldn't be surprised if the results were upward of 60 to 70%.Yet all those women are not gay.


No, the definition there would be bisexual. Just because someone previously with a member of the same sex is now with a person of the opposite sex does not mean that the attraction to the same sex is gone. It means they are attracted to both sexes and decided to live their live with whom they fell in love with.


But is this always the case? You're making a big assumption if you say yes. Not everyone who goes from gay to straight is gonna be bi then, people change for different reasons and in different ways.


No it is not always the case, but in answer to Thomas' question, with the exception of those who lie to themselves to try to please a hateful society, yes, it is the case. As Dragoness said, you can't just STOP being attracted to someone. You couldn't suddenly STOP being attracted to women any more than I could suddenly start being attracted to men.


Maybe you can't STOP, but......you can change how you react.

I think you're blinded to your own prejudices honestly if you think EVERYONE who goes from gay to straight is gonna be the same way, and yes I know you're gonna say I am too, but I don't care if you do feel that way or not.





My ex was a lesbian for 8 years before she met me.Her friend was also a former lesbian.She told me that she would never so much as kiss another girl every again and the idea of doing those things she used to do was "repulsive" to her.She said she was desperate and because she was close to her friend she formed a relationship.She said she always wanted a man and was attracked to men but just couldn't find the right one.She is married now to a man.

Many lesbian relationships are started out of desperation.Once they find a good man that makes them happy they will dump the woman they are seeing because a man can give them much more than a woman can including security and children.

Kleisto's photo
Thu 06/17/10 08:18 PM




Yes gay people can choose who they have sex with, same as straight people. Does not in any way mean we can choose who we are attracted to, and a person attracted to the same sex is by definition either gay or bisexual, regardless of whether those feelings are acted upon or not.



And NO ONE, gay, straight, bi, whatever, can choose who they WANT to love.


So are you saying if someone loves someone but the relationship is unhealthy, they don't have the choice to leave? That idea is utterly asinine.


When in any part of my response did I make anything CLOSE to that statement??


If they WANT to love them, don't they sort of have some obligation to stay?

Dragoness's photo
Thu 06/17/10 08:19 PM





People who are born Black or born Asian are born that way and can not change that fact.Gays are not born that way because they can choose who they want to love and have sex with.I have yet to see a person who for what ever reason was unable to make a descision because they said making that descision was mentally impossible.


Yes gay people can choose who they have sex with, same as straight people. Does not in any way mean we can choose who we are attracted to, and a person attracted to the same sex is by definition either gay or bisexual, regardless of whether those feelings are acted upon or not.



And NO ONE, gay, straight, bi, whatever, can choose who they WANT to love.


So are you saying if someone loves someone but the relationship is unhealthy, they don't have the choice to leave? That idea is utterly asinine.


Gay is not unhealthy.


I didn't even mean a gay relationship neccessarily, I meant any relationship. Gay, straight or whatever.


So if the relationship is unhealthy you change gender of partners?

Kleisto's photo
Thu 06/17/10 08:20 PM






People who are born Black or born Asian are born that way and can not change that fact.Gays are not born that way because they can choose who they want to love and have sex with.I have yet to see a person who for what ever reason was unable to make a descision because they said making that descision was mentally impossible.


Yes gay people can choose who they have sex with, same as straight people. Does not in any way mean we can choose who we are attracted to, and a person attracted to the same sex is by definition either gay or bisexual, regardless of whether those feelings are acted upon or not.



And NO ONE, gay, straight, bi, whatever, can choose who they WANT to love.


So are you saying if someone loves someone but the relationship is unhealthy, they don't have the choice to leave? That idea is utterly asinine.


Gay is not unhealthy.


I didn't even mean a gay relationship neccessarily, I meant any relationship. Gay, straight or whatever.


So if the relationship is unhealthy you change gender of partners?


Again I am not inferring anything in my statement, you're putting words in my mouth. I simply meant A unhealthy relationship in whatever form. That's it and that's all.

VacantDreamer's photo
Thu 06/17/10 08:21 PM
Edited by VacantDreamer on Thu 06/17/10 08:22 PM





Yes gay people can choose who they have sex with, same as straight people. Does not in any way mean we can choose who we are attracted to, and a person attracted to the same sex is by definition either gay or bisexual, regardless of whether those feelings are acted upon or not.



And NO ONE, gay, straight, bi, whatever, can choose who they WANT to love.


So are you saying if someone loves someone but the relationship is unhealthy, they don't have the choice to leave? That idea is utterly asinine.


When in any part of my response did I make anything CLOSE to that statement??


If they WANT to love them, don't they sort of have some obligation to stay?


I said NO ONE can choose who they WANT to love.

Meaning loving someone is most definitely NOT a choice. Leaving an unhealthy relationship IS a choice, and one that should be taken. No one should ever stay in an unhealthy relationship because they feel obligated.

Kleisto's photo
Thu 06/17/10 08:21 PM






Yes gay people can choose who they have sex with, same as straight people. Does not in any way mean we can choose who we are attracted to, and a person attracted to the same sex is by definition either gay or bisexual, regardless of whether those feelings are acted upon or not.



And NO ONE, gay, straight, bi, whatever, can choose who they WANT to love.


So are you saying if someone loves someone but the relationship is unhealthy, they don't have the choice to leave? That idea is utterly asinine.


When in any part of my response did I make anything CLOSE to that statement??


If they WANT to love them, don't they sort of have some obligation to stay?


I said NO ONE can choose who they WANT to love.


Ok but can they CHOOSE who they want to be with? Yes or no.

Thomas3474's photo
Thu 06/17/10 08:23 PM


People who are born Black or born Asian are born that way and can not change that fact.Gays are not born that way because they can choose who they want to love and have sex with.I have yet to see a person who for what ever reason was unable to make a descision because they said making that descision was mentally impossible.


Yes gay people can choose who they have sex with, same as straight people. Does not in any way mean we can choose who we are attracted to, and a person attracted to the same sex is by definition either gay or bisexual, regardless of whether those feelings are acted upon or not.



And NO ONE, gay, straight, bi, whatever, can choose who they WANT to love.



What kind of statement is that???Of course they can choose who they want to love. noway Is someone picking who they are going to be with?We don't have a choice???If they can't choose then everyone on this planet is forced against their will to love someone they don't want to love???

I have heard it all but that one takes the cake! laugh


VacantDreamer's photo
Thu 06/17/10 08:23 PM







Yes gay people can choose who they have sex with, same as straight people. Does not in any way mean we can choose who we are attracted to, and a person attracted to the same sex is by definition either gay or bisexual, regardless of whether those feelings are acted upon or not.



And NO ONE, gay, straight, bi, whatever, can choose who they WANT to love.


So are you saying if someone loves someone but the relationship is unhealthy, they don't have the choice to leave? That idea is utterly asinine.


When in any part of my response did I make anything CLOSE to that statement??


If they WANT to love them, don't they sort of have some obligation to stay?


I said NO ONE can choose who they WANT to love.


Ok but can they CHOOSE who they want to be with? Yes or no.


Oy we're going around in circles here. Yes, someone can choose who to be with. Someone CANNOT choose who they are attracted to.

Thomas3474's photo
Thu 06/17/10 08:25 PM








Yes gay people can choose who they have sex with, same as straight people. Does not in any way mean we can choose who we are attracted to, and a person attracted to the same sex is by definition either gay or bisexual, regardless of whether those feelings are acted upon or not.



And NO ONE, gay, straight, bi, whatever, can choose who they WANT to love.


So are you saying if someone loves someone but the relationship is unhealthy, they don't have the choice to leave? That idea is utterly asinine.


When in any part of my response did I make anything CLOSE to that statement??


If they WANT to love them, don't they sort of have some obligation to stay?


I said NO ONE can choose who they WANT to love.


Ok but can they CHOOSE who they want to be with? Yes or no.


Oy we're going around in circles here. Yes, someone can choose who to be with. Someone CANNOT choose who they are attracted to.

VacantDreamer's photo
Thu 06/17/10 08:25 PM




What kind of statement is that???Of course they can choose who they want to love. noway Is someone picking who they are going to be with?We don't have a choice???If they can't choose then everyone on this planet is forced against their will to love someone they don't want to love???

I have heard it all but that one takes the cake! laugh




Feelings of love cannot be turned on and off. I did not say one cannot choose who they will be with. I said one cannot control who they have loving feelings for. You cannot look at someone and say, "Oh. I think I will love THAT person." THAT is what I meant.

Thomas3474's photo
Thu 06/17/10 08:28 PM









Yes gay people can choose who they have sex with, same as straight people. Does not in any way mean we can choose who we are attracted to, and a person attracted to the same sex is by definition either gay or bisexual, regardless of whether those feelings are acted upon or not.



And NO ONE, gay, straight, bi, whatever, can choose who they WANT to love.


So are you saying if someone loves someone but the relationship is unhealthy, they don't have the choice to leave? That idea is utterly asinine.


When in any part of my response did I make anything CLOSE to that statement??


If they WANT to love them, don't they sort of have some obligation to stay?


I said NO ONE can choose who they WANT to love.


Ok but can they CHOOSE who they want to be with? Yes or no.


Oy we're going around in circles here. Yes, someone can choose who to be with. Someone CANNOT choose who they are attracted to.




Wow that's interesting.Back in my early twenties when I was clubbing every friday and saturday night I was attracted to just about every girl who gave me a smile.Didn't matter what color,race,fat,skinny,blonde,short hair,long hair.I would date them.

I think 99% of the single guys out there are the same way.They will take just about any girl who is half way decent.


VacantDreamer's photo
Thu 06/17/10 08:32 PM










Yes gay people can choose who they have sex with, same as straight people. Does not in any way mean we can choose who we are attracted to, and a person attracted to the same sex is by definition either gay or bisexual, regardless of whether those feelings are acted upon or not.



And NO ONE, gay, straight, bi, whatever, can choose who they WANT to love.


So are you saying if someone loves someone but the relationship is unhealthy, they don't have the choice to leave? That idea is utterly asinine.


When in any part of my response did I make anything CLOSE to that statement??


If they WANT to love them, don't they sort of have some obligation to stay?


I said NO ONE can choose who they WANT to love.


Ok but can they CHOOSE who they want to be with? Yes or no.


Oy we're going around in circles here. Yes, someone can choose who to be with. Someone CANNOT choose who they are attracted to.




Wow that's interesting.Back in my early twenties when I was clubbing every friday and saturday night I was attracted to just about every girl who gave me a smile.Didn't matter what color,race,fat,skinny,blonde,short hair,long hair.I would date them.

I think 99% of the single guys out there are the same way.They will take just about any girl who is half way decent.



frustrated frustrated frustrated frustrated frustrated
I was referring to gender, not physical traits.

Thomas3474's photo
Thu 06/17/10 08:32 PM





What kind of statement is that???Of course they can choose who they want to love. noway Is someone picking who they are going to be with?We don't have a choice???If they can't choose then everyone on this planet is forced against their will to love someone they don't want to love???

I have heard it all but that one takes the cake! laugh




Feelings of love cannot be turned on and off. I did not say one cannot choose who they will be with. I said one cannot control who they have loving feelings for. You cannot look at someone and say, "Oh. I think I will love THAT person." THAT is what I meant.



Have you ever been a relationship before?Of course feelings of love can be turned on and off.You ever had someone cheat on you?One day you love them the next you telling them you never want to see them again.You ever fall in love with a person and two months later you can't stand waking up next to them.It happens every day all over the world.Love is turned on and off with millions of people.Love is just a feeling nothing more.It is a small part of living a normal life.

VacantDreamer's photo
Thu 06/17/10 08:34 PM




Have you ever been a relationship before?Of course feelings of love can be turned on and off.You ever had someone cheat on you?One day you love them the next you telling them you never want to see them again.You ever fall in love with a person and two months later you can't stand waking up next to them.It happens every day all over the world.Love is turned on and off with millions of people.Love is just a feeling nothing more.It is a small part of living a normal life.


If it were possible to just turn those feelings off, it wouldn't hurt so damn much to be cheated on, now would it? There wouldn't be that little thing called grief when a relationship ends.

If it were possible to turn them ON, do you really think so many people would still be single??

Not all of us are robots.

no photo
Thu 06/17/10 08:42 PM




Do you really believe that if they go straight that they stop being attracted to the same sex??

If you do you are not thinking clearly.


I think anyone can change if they really want to, or at the very least change how they react to things.


You really think anyone can change if they really want to? If you really felt like it, you could completely stop being attracted to women and only be attracted to men?

Thomas3474's photo
Thu 06/17/10 08:43 PM





Have you ever been a relationship before?Of course feelings of love can be turned on and off.You ever had someone cheat on you?One day you love them the next you telling them you never want to see them again.You ever fall in love with a person and two months later you can't stand waking up next to them.It happens every day all over the world.Love is turned on and off with millions of people.Love is just a feeling nothing more.It is a small part of living a normal life.


If it were possible to just turn those feelings off, it wouldn't hurt so damn much to be cheated on, now would it? There wouldn't be that little thing called grief when a relationship ends.

If it were possible to turn them ON, do you really think so many people would still be single??

Not all of us are robots.



laugh I have been in plenty of relationships where it was all lovey dovey,rainbows and fireworks,love you forever in the beginning.Things change.Some of those same women I dearly loved and one I nearly married took a turn for the worst.There is no amount of money in the world you could pay me to ever get me back together with them again.Love evolves over time.It's always good at first but after a few years love takes a back seat to reality.

Not all realtionships that come to a end are a curse.Most are a blessing.

Dragoness's photo
Thu 06/17/10 08:44 PM
Feelings of love cannot be turned off and on, regardless to who you love.

You can choose not to be with the person you love but you will love them usually for a long time regardless to if you are with them or not.

We do not choose who we love. It just happens or it doesn't

Being gay or bi is a born trait.

How do I know that homosexuality is a born trait? Two reasons. First I know that I have been attracted to males for a long as I can remember. I have never had a sexual fantasy that had a woman and myself engaging in sex together. I find women beautiful from an artistic standpoint but sexually it is a no go. Second, I have had friends who were kind enough to share their struggle with me. Their struggle was their attraction to the same sex and the misery it has caused them in their lives. I have been to a gay wedding (pagan).

What I saw in my interactions with people is that no matter who they love they love with the same passion and pain that I do.

So I know that they, like me, just want to live and love without added judgment and struggle.

I say allow everyone who wants to marry, marry as long as the age of consent is followed and mental capacity is followed.

Thomas3474's photo
Thu 06/17/10 08:46 PM





Do you really believe that if they go straight that they stop being attracted to the same sex??

If you do you are not thinking clearly.


I think anyone can change if they really want to, or at the very least change how they react to things.


You really think anyone can change if they really want to? If you really felt like it, you could completely stop being attracted to women and only be attracted to men?



15,400,000 webpage hits with "formally gay" in yahoo search.Yes.

Do we really need to get into the thousands if not millions of people who were gay atheists and who turned into Christians and are living a normal straight life now?I don't think so.