Red wrote:
“What I have always had a problem with, is the whole pure energy
thing. To imagine that energy has a thought process at all is not within
my grasp.”

This is because you are thinking logically. You don’t think like that
in spiritual form. There’s a huge difference between ‘thinking’
and ‘perceiving’.

What separates humans from animals? The ability to think? Hardly.
It’s quite obvious that many animals are capable of thinking and use
their brains all the time. Yet they certainly don’t have the level of
self-awareness that we have. However they are certainly sentient of
their surroundings, and of an ability to recognize and made with their
own species. They don’t need the level of logical thought processes
that you are obviously associating with you consciousness. There is a
difference between ‘thinking’ and ‘perceiving’.

Perhaps ‘sentience’ is the word I’m looking for here if you think
of this as defined as; “An emotional response or perception that is
different and distinct from the intellectual process”

As a spirit you can be sentient without necessarily having the normal
‘logical’ ability to think that you associate with your
consciousness. In fact, logic itself is actually based on the physical
universe. We see things as being ‘logical’ if we can understand
them, and ‘illogical’ if we can’t. Ironically, quantum physics
has been found to be quite illogical. There is no explanation for
quantum weirdness. Not only has it not been explained logically, but
it’s been proven by John Stuart Bell and others, that it is impossible
to explain it ‘logically’ based on logic as we understand it today.

So the very nature of the universe is something quite illogical. An
ability to logically think won’t help you understand your true
spiritual nature because that world is not based on logic as we have
come to know it. In that world you perceive in a way that is quite
differnet from they way you perceive your brain. You can actually
experience this form of sentience via deep meditation (when I speak of
‘meditation’ here I’m speaking about a form of consciousness, not
merely a relaxation technique)

Red wrote:
“Yet with each, incarnation from energy to the physical there is no
recollection.”

You’re thinking of this from within an incarnation. It’s only while
you are in an incarnation that you are ignorant of you true nature.
This is necessary because if you always retained the knowledge of your
true nature then the incarnation wouldn’t be any fun. It would be
like reading a novel that you yourself wrote!

You gave up your knowledge of your eternal nature when you became
incarnated. This is simply how you play the game. It just wouldn’t be
worth playing if you didn’t do that. However, on the other side, in
your true form as pure spirit you are aware of everything. So the
‘memory’ is on the spiritual side of things.

You may ask, “Where is that memory stored”. But my dear, that is a
logical question! The spiritual world is not ‘logical’ as we have
come to know logic. When you return to your spiritual nature you will
smile at the simplicity of how it all works.

Red wrote:
“I can see why you would want an end, because I would not want to
spend eternity dreaming of things that have happened over & over. This
is no better an existence than the heaven that some Christians believe
awaits them.”

To even think of things having ‘happened over and over’ it a
time-like thought. Once again, in your spiritual form you would smile
at the absurdity of that notion. Time is not what you think it is.

You say that this is no better an existence than the heaven that some
Christians believe awaits them. Yet, there are major differences here.
In the Christian heaven you are serving a separate entity which is
obviously far superior to you and will continue to be superior to you
for all of eternity (a never-ending period of time). Moreover,
wouldn’t the ‘perfection’ of heaven become boring after a while?
It wouldn’t be ‘long’ before you wanted to be incarnated again and
forget your spiritual nature. Although time is really an irrelevant
concept in the spiritual world.

I’ve actually had dreams of being in the spiritual world. I’ll
grant you that my dreams were necessarily restrained by my 3-dimensional
nature in this incarnation. However, there were some things that I was
able to comprehend. First, all spirits are on equal footing, and they
are all non-threatening. There can be no threat in the spiritual world
because there is simply nothing that can threaten a spirit. A spirit
can’t be physically harmed because it has no physical body. It
can’ t be emotionally harmed either for reasons that are quite
difficult to explain but I’ll try in the next paragraph.

All spirits are one even though they have multiplicity. In the
spiritual world all spirits know the ‘thoughts’ of all other
spirits. As humans we may think of this as an invasion of privacy, but
in the spiritual world there is no such feeling. There is only one
mind. My thoughts are your thoughts and your thoughts are my thoughts.
There is only one ‘mind’ (I suppose the mind could be thought of as
the godhead), but the godhead is totally non-threatening. The godhead
is not like an ‘individual ego’. The godhead is simply the source
of all that is. No judgments are passed. The godhead is the mind of
the spiritual world and all spirits are part of it (all spirits are it).
It is both at a point and everywhere simultaneously. The spiritual
world is non-dimensional. Yet another illogical concept that can only
be experienced, but when experienced, its nature is perfectly obvious.

What do spirits do? That’s extremely difficult to put into human
terms. There are many things that spirits do that would not make any
sense to humans. In fact, it would be impossible to even try to
describe them because they are not of this world. However, one thing
that spirits do is to become incarnated into physical form (like where
we are now). We have chosen to do this. We have chosen to be here.
Time is non-existent. How long, or how short we stay in this
incarnation is totally irrelevant. From a spiritual point of view a
short stay and a long stay were the same amount of ‘time’.

When you die this will all become crystal clear. So until then, carry
on.

Yeah, Red carry on

OleJeb, you made me laugh.

ABRA - you really should consider writing. As I read your words, very
slowly so as not to miss anything, I suddenly began to equate much of
what you say with personal experiences. By the time I was toward the
end I was smiling and the experiences flowed back to me like water. No
order in them, one from the age of 11, then as a baby, and at 20 and
back to age 7. As if they were becoming connected. Strange events,
mostly, that had no explanation.

For many years, beyond my recollection of when, I lay awake in the
night, faces drift, like spirits, behind my eyes. Sometimes they make
themselves clear, sometimes they are beauty beyond telling and others
they are hideous, but never is my 'emotion' touched. I feel communion,
oneness, and sometimes I choose to stay awake and allow it. I cannot
explain any better, but the word are severely lacking. At any rate,
your words of explanation have touched all that and more.

So dear Abra, I just may be crossing the boundaries between atheism and
pantheism. I may be asking more questions in other posts - be
prepared! ha!

armydoc wrote...

are we alone in the universe?

Possibly.

Although it seems almost a fantasy, and arrogant to assume, with all of
the undiscovered, unknown by us, universe out there, we can be the only
life form. I am not surprised that religion and science, have a hard
time re-conciling...they are so polarised with what is, what could be,
and what isn't.


Is there a common religion in the world hidden underneath the fabric of
the rest of them, something that links them all together in the same way
that there is human rights observed by everybody?


you know like the right to breath.

Common religion? A term I don't find appropriate, but is really only
semantics...

Humans are pack instinct animals...and the need to be the top dog, in
the world we live in, in the 'superior' pack..is half of the arrogance.

Take a pack of wolves, for an example...there is an alpha male, or
female, or both..then the second in command to them..then the rest of
the pack, that have to work with the pack for their survival..then there
is the weakest in the pack, that are at the bottom of the pecking order,
and often don't survive.

They all need to be acknowledged, within their pack, for survival, and
within the hierarchy of their social order.

And I feel humans are no different.

People need to be acknowledged, accepted, supported...all of them...this
whole desire to be 'seen'.

And to be superior..religion?

A clever manipulative way to be 'seen', and if we are not the most
superior of all, then we best invent a being so vast and mythical, that
by our very acceptance of this mythical being, we can be seen as bigger,
as vast as this ultimate 'alpha'...we are 'seen' as bigger by
association.

So, is there an undercurrent of something like a religion under the
whole human existance?

Well, we crow about compassion, and empathy, and this free will thing,
that the 'lesser' creatures don't have...to justify a sense of
superiority...but I doubt it.

Survival?

Seems to be the only undercurrent prevalent within humans...and is about
as instinctual as a single-celled creature.

SO no, we separate, categorise, justify, and analyse, and in reality,
are just a small crumb, to something much more vast than we can ever
understand.

This human existance is nothing more than an arrogant dream, in
comparison the the unknown universe..

and as far as centre of the universe...we aren't even a rest stop on a
back road, in my opinion.

I'm not even going to TOUCH this. I heard this all before.

~walks out~

You can't touch this. M. C. Hammer

Yes Doc, I think there is a common religion. It may well be that there
are so many different religions just so people can sort through it all
and make the effort to find the common meaning. If it came easily would
it have as much value? What would it be? My own guess: Faith,
Respect, Love. I'm not going to include hope as a separate part because
if you can attain the other three, hope has been answered and always
will be.

soooooooo-

whats it all for/ about?

not having a crisis of faith or any of that crap, not a guy who found
religion in a desparate time and place just sparking up some non
neopolitical conversation.

would like to expand on one i had earlier with a friend;

he was laughing at a show on the tube about ghost hunting, being that he
is a devout catholic i asked him why was it so hard for him to except
that there could be ghosts floating around, after all there is a thing
called the holy ghost in the bible? we went on a little bit and he was
talking about ghost hunting being away to scare people out of money, so
i retorted is like passing around an offering plate?

okay im not a believer one way or another my only critism with him was
one of consistancy,

so to expand- ghost's? yey/ nay
money?
mans desire to have control over other men? (organized religion)
hmmmmm. pack of wolves? alpha dog in the hizzay?


doc

Here's an idea for you doc. I really like the way Abra described our
essence as being pure energy. If that is correct and if one can let go
of physical logic to see that time is not really a linear thing, then
the energy that is the essence of all life is constantly moving through
out the universe.

What if we come in contact with the singular essence of pure energy, and
the way it affects us comes across as, say precognition or knowledge we
could not possibly know, or as ghosts?

This energy may only affect one person in a group or alone. But it is
energy whose movement is quite fast and may also affect many, as in the
case of those who envision an angel or a holy mother in the sky. Or
maybe just three children of Fatima, who share the knowledge of one or
multiple essence(s) of anothers pure energy.

Could this not be what others describe as a ghost?

And what do you think Abra?

Yeah,Abra what do you think?

I totally agree with you, Bored. But I have to wonder why some would
consider people who are of a different philosophy "abberations".

Peace, love & wisdom