"......in a pluralistic society we have no choice"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2Kh-xzerjE

'... we are no longer a 'christian nation', or at least '...JUST a christian nation ...'

'... even if we were to expel all 'non-christian' from America, ... who's particular view of christianity would we teach: 'James Dobson's or Al Sharp's???...' (or then again, catholic, or evangelical, etc.)

'... Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concern into UNIVERSAL, rather than religious specific ...'

'... this requires that their proposal be subject to arguments, and amenable to reason. ... this is difficult for those whom believe in the in-errancy of the bible (a word-for-word personal interpretation of the bible)...'


For those whom might jump at this 'Youtube' with indignation,
... THINK FIRST!!!

The christian evangelical, and the christian fundamentalist propositions have only spread hatred, divisiveness, irrational fear of others, and implosive destruction!!! A sure-bet societal 'dead-end'.

Open minded, and 'good faith' Christians of the USA, along with their brothers and sisters of all other beliefs, as well as non-belief, are most certainly capable of speaking-up, transcending the barbarian and primitive nature of fundamentalists propositions, and reaching for that which UNITES, rather than that which ETERNALLY DIVIDES!!

for those that were of all religion's, hate was not found in their hearts, and common good flowed from them, and hate did not seek our and find those that hated not, and these lifted the earth out of the self created abyss that self superior minds of self pride had created

Wow, I am impressed beyond words. I don't follow politics much or know much about Obama, but that was an excellent excerpt. Thanks for sharing that.

anything and any person in the universe is open to change, and good reasoning, if it allow good reason into it's own mind, forsaking singularistic belief, self centered belief, rather than centered self belief, that it once only held on to, but to secure for itself it's own PERSONAL alone best fate and redemption, which it did not see at the time, was ALL ABOUT ITSELF ALONE MOST, the very first thing that anything need redemption or freeing from, for when the mind take unto itself, but to secure for itself, it leave out much data along the path, simply ignoring it because it deem such data not useful for the self singular want, so it lead itself off it's own self created cliff, not seeing it's own inner voice told it all the future itself would create, by choosing all itself chose.

I love OBamas eloquence and intelligence. Faith and works are supposed to be a choice, even in the Bible. It cannot not be politically enforced but political values and biblical values can often coincide. We do still proclaim to be a nation under God so from a faith perspective we should honor his word if we expect his blessings,,but that is an individual decision and not a government one. It is a decision which a majority of individuals can support or refuse, which is the beauty of choice , democracy, and faith.

There is not one of Gods laws which conflicts with mans laws but many of mans have conflicted with Gods. I hope for people everywhere to be blessed and in the end, our works (whether we attribute them to politics, religion, or some 'common good') will dictate our 'consequences'.

for the minds of earth were opened up, the books of life the brain laid bare and open, and there were no secrets left hidden, and mankind finally relaized it had been creating ITSELF all that happened to itself, creating into existence each and all it's OWN consequence, and there was no more running by busy feet to avoid self consequence, and true honor, and valor, and courage, like never witnessed before, was released unto the earth from out of the hearts of humankind, seeing that the only true honor, or valor, or self courage, be for caring for what self love, for finally it was seen, true love was not loving to get back love for self, and the great amraggeddon of self singular want war's were over and ended.

WOW!!! 'msharmony, talk of an ideological 'tug-of-war'!!!

This planet, and the human race, among other phenomenons living upon it, are not going to survive 'bible-in-errancy-christian-fundamentalist' SUPREMACY!!!

We will live by 'UNIVERSAL' (not biblical in-errant exclusive) values, and yes, 'love your neighbor as you would yourself' is one of those, but so are some Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, and non-religious universal statements and values of predilection.

We did not disagree :).

As a christian I live a dualistic life , I have dual citizenship if you will,,,both a christian and an american , both of God and of the world. I agree that government is not church of vice versa, but as a Christian both elements are constantly under consideration in my decisions. There is no conflict, for me, because there is no following of my faith which runs the risk of opposing the laws of government. My highest authority is God, and even his word tells me to be respectful of the government and laws of the land unless they COMPEL me to disobey his word.

Fair enough 'msharmony' !!! ;)

You have to cherry pick the bible pretty heavily to end up with anything compatible with western values.

Its become the norm for so many its not even noticed.

Values are headed away from biblical values, but laws are not so far removed. The laws dont compel me to do anything that the Bible warns against.

I have never believed that Obama was a Christian and this speech just adds more insight.Obama is a good speaker but 90% of the time he has no idea what he is talking about or lying or both.You determine what the religion of a country is by the majority of the people who practice it and who is living there.In this case the majority of the Americans living in America is overwhelmingly Christians by nearly 80%.Even it it is just 51% it is still the majority.

Christianity: (78.5%)
Protestantism (51.3%)
Roman Catholicism (23.9%)
Mormonism (1.7%)
Jehovah's Witnesses (0.7%)
Orthodox Church (0.6%)
other Christian (0.3%)
Unaffiliated, including atheist or agnostic (16.1%)
Judaism (1.7%)
Buddhist (0.7%)
Islam (0.6%)
Hinduism (0.4%)
other (1.2%)

For all you Atheist who are going to say it's not 78.5% it's really 78.3% I could care less about it.There is no denying this country is at least 3/4 Christians no matter what website and time frame you want to choose.That said I think Obama saying that this is no longer a Christian nation is one of the stupidest things he has ever spoken,and obviously spoken to a group of uneducated people who don't have the slightest idea of what religious groups dominate America today and yesterday.Even if his words are true if Christians are not the dominate force in America what is?Yes Obama we all understand there is all sorts of religions out there with millions of members.But to say this is no longer a Christian nation is false,inaccurate,misleading,and stupid.

As far as quoting old laws and traditions of the bible.This is where Obama really shines as a uneducated Christian who has no idea what he is talking about.I can say with all certainty that none of those laws have or were enforced since the new testament and I could never find any bible verses in the old testament of people actually using those laws to kill people.I challenge anyone reading this to find not bible verses but actual stories of someone being murdered(as in Jew killing Jew,or Christian killing Christian)using those laws that Obama spoke of.Obama saying that those ancient laws are somehow used in current everday Christian life as a form of law enforment is comical.

Mr Obama this is was and will always be a Christian nation.You asked what kind of laws we would abide by if the Chrstians were the majority?How about these for starters.


1 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.

2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.

3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

6 “You shall not murder.

7 “You shall not commit adultery.

8 “You shall not steal.

9 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

10 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.”

That statement is so ridicules it's hardly worth responding.If what you are saying is true,then you are basically saying that the people who call themselves Christians either are all liars who don't follow the bible or they do follow the bible but are living in a cave in old Israel and still think the world is flat.

OK, play with these numbers...yours are old hat...things change dispite the people who think like it's 1950...

"A USA Today/Gallup Poll in 2002-JAN showed that almost half of American adults appear to be alienated from organized religion. If current trends continue, most adults will not call themselves religious within a few years. Results include:

About 50% consider themselves religious (down from 54% in 1999-DEC)
About 33% consider themselves "spiritual but not religious" (up from 30%)
About 10% regard themselves as neither spiritual or religious."

Identification with Christianity has suffered a loss of 9.7 percentage points in 11 years -- about 0.9 percentage points per year. This decline is identical to that observed in Canada between 1981 and 2001."

The trend is away from religion.

Anyone who has the delusion that America is strictly a "Christian Nation" are going against the Constitution...thus traitors to it...and this nation.

President Obama's speech is rational..and I am sure that bothers the literalists and the evangelicals.

Less and less people need religion to take a dump...

We agree again. People can sometimes nitpick and edit others words in odd ways. To say we are a nation of MOSTLY christians would be accurate but to say that we are not a STRICTLY christian nation(which were the words he used) is also absolutely true.

I believe it would be an ANTI CHRISTIAN thing to do to FORCE christianity on anyone because that would defeat the purpose of them Chosing Christ and coming to him on their own. I do think all americans should utilize the voting process to vote on issues that are important to them and I believe an American leader(although I would prefer them to be one who chose a christian life for themself) would not dictate christianity to others but to try to dictate the messages of christianity instead

, things like neighborly love, justice, productivity, empathy,,,etc,,,,

Come on Middle get real.A gallop poll of how many exactly?100,300,1000?Somehow that represents the 300 plus million people living in America 3/4 of them Christians?The statistics I gave you are in the millions.It also says religion which can mean anything from Star wars people who have "the force" to people who believe in the tooth fairy.The majority of Christians out there do not believe in religion as it is man made and has many meanings.I am one of them.I do not worship religion.I worship Christ.Then you think I got those numbers from the 1950's and you are posting stuff from 2002?Thats 8 years ago!My numbers were from 2009 and I checked several sites.

I am not going to spend time posting this and posting that because I know two things.

1.)You will deny everything I post.
2.)You will deny everything I say.

You and your friend Obama can have a cup of coffee and talk about how wonderful a world would be with out Christians.I'm sure he would agree with you 100%.

All I can say is wow,,,I have never heard anything like that from OBama.

funny thomas you portray yourself to be this great christian yet you yourself post some of the most hateful rhetoric towards people that don't think as you do.

Aye Universal.

So here is one.

This is my Mecca. Wherever I go, God is with me.