I am sure AB will clarify his own position when he returns.

Thank you Artgirl for everything.

By the way I luv art :) that's me in the photo at an art exhibit

Christianity is only one view of what god may be.

>> AB will clarify his own position when he returns

hahah@massage trade you are to funny


and to the other person no his point is not valid, because as far as we
know the oldest forms of religion were goddess worshipping. not god
worshipping societies. and then if people made 1 god why wouldn't they
make multiple gods? w hy would there only be 1 that seems silly to me.

So the theory is that men were once dominated by women? Or that men
worshipped women in some way? I don't beleive that in the least. I
think that women by temperament and strength would be far less likely to
have any sort of control in a primitive culture. If women weren't in
charge and were only taking care of babies while the husbands hunted,
defended and warred, then I can't imagine why the men would accept a
female god.

Spider wrote:

So the theory is that men were once dominated by women? Or that men
worshipped women in some way? I don't beleive that in the least. I
think that women by temperament and strength would be far less likely to
have any sort of control in a primitive culture. If women weren't in
charge and were only taking care of babies while the husbands hunted,
defended and warred, then I can't imagine why the men would accept a
female god.
=================

Spider - have you taken a look at the Minoan history? It looks pretty
female dominated to me until the end when male-dominated religion was
enforced.

Before that women in battle, positions of authority, goddess based and
the early art depicts female warriors and shows women drawn in twice the
scale of the men. In art, scale is a significant way to denote
importance.

Food for thought maybe...

ArtGurl,

Minoans don't count. The women walked around with their breasts exposed
all day. Men will agree to anything in that situation, becuase they
don't, or rather can't, think.

Too funny Spider ... but I'm not buying it

If exposed breasts are all over the place, what is there to get so
excited about?

What about indiginous tribes and nudists? Am I to believe that all of
the men walk around like drooling bafoons awaiting orders?

From an artistic perspective, I love the human form. When I am painting
- I just see shapes, light and shadow. I am not all turned on and
kerfluffled when working with a male model.

I think the Monoans count!

Quite a lot of cultures honoured Mother Earth as Goddess before they
were conquered and male gods were forced on them.

spider.. first of all in hunting and gatherer societies men did hunt
but women supplied.. what was it about 80% of the meal because most of
the hunts were unsuccessful and the women were the ones who gathered
fruits, vegetables, nuts, berries and grains from the earth... and for
the whole time this place has been in contact women have done far more
than just raise babies, while you're little one sided view of it may say
women just raise children the women like say in native american
societies they are the ones who are in charge of village life, they
decide if the men go to war, they believed the women should decide
since they had sons and husbands fighting then they would make ajust
decision, if say they found captives in the forest thye would bring them
back and the women were the ones who got to decide if they were made
part of the village, killed, or released.. women have dominated the
field of herbology in indigenous religions.. if you think that women
aren't good for anything besides raising children and that they weren't
good for anything else besides that i suggest you return to a real
history book and not one written by the white man for the white man
about the white man.

really spider sometimes i really like you and im like maybe he has a
point and other times im like.. where the heck did this guy come from,
your views are always anti-women and you paint the picture that males
are for some reason these fierce protectors of women and that women are
just made to be the evil fall of man and to have little babies and take
care of them... it makes me wonder just how you view women...

and primitive cultures well some indigenous tribes, some shamanic
cultures, native americans they were atually way more equalitarian than
the major male dominated religions of today.

AH HA! You said "I am not all turned on and kerfluffled when working
with a male model.", but you (quite suspiciously, I might add) didn't
mention FEMALE models. I think we all know now what gets you
kerfluffled.

Minoans were ruled by men, but worshipped female goddesses. Minoan
civilization started around 2700 BC. We can't assume too much from
their goddess worship. There is a strong desire by some to believe that
all early religions were goddess worship. The little fertility figures
are often presented as proof that early gods were all female. I think
that the facts have to stand for themselves and we should not add to it.
I know that some civilizations worshipped female gods, but we can't
assume, based on that fact, that all early religions were based on
worshipping female gods. I guess I'm just playing devils advocate. And
I'm also questioning the stereotype of men being so obcessed with
subjegating women. The Minoan civilization had male rulers, but a
female preisthood and goddesses. Men and women participated equally in
society and even sports. Sounds to me like it was a society where women
were accepted as full equals to the men (except in ruling, what I read
says they were always ruled by a king). Rambling...I know.

Spider, maybe you want to apologize to Artgurl?

I think your comment was a bit insulting.

invisible,

It wasn't a comment, it was a joke. I obviously don't believe that way
and was being intentually absurd. If ArtGurl wants an apology, I will
be more than happy to give her one privately or publically.

oh for gawdsake Spider

Where was the joke? I missed it O_o

Oh this?

"ArtGurl,

Minoans don't count. The women walked around with their breasts exposed
all day. Men will agree to anything in that situation, becuase they
don't, or rather can't, think."

I guess it was light humor?

sororitygurl4life,

I'm sorry that you feel that way, becuase that is not how I feel at all.
I have clarified my position in another post, but let me put it this
way. I don't believe that women have been universally subjegated by
men, but some people do believe that. Speaking as someone with two
kids, I can tell you that going to work is like taking a vacation. I
know that caring for children is a full job in itself. Anyone who has
watched documentaries on primitive societies or read about them knows
that women do huge amounts of labor, in addition to child bearing and
rearing. I was being sarcastic about how some feminists think that all
men think about is how to keep women down. If women were in charge OR
the god(s) of the people were female, then that shows that men were more
open minded towards women than some would have us believe.