Tue 06/12/07 09:47 PM
1. Non Christians worship idols.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. Idols are any thing that
stands between you and god. Non christians either don't believe in god
or have faith in God and God alone.
---------------------------------------------------------------
wow adventure. I cant believe that you put this on a post... any
religion that dosnt believe in christ would ne non christian.. muslems
worship statues, etc, hindus also, and otherss.. you know this..so you
didnt clarify what exaxtly you mean by non christians...buddists worship
budda and so on

I have to wonder if God isn't as fascinated as I am by our arguing over
differences and who's right.

We are branches fighting amongst ourselves without realizing we are all
part of the same tree. It is curious to me...

Aye Artgurl

Branches of the Most Great Branch... Each of us the fruit of the tree of
life.

And organized religion is the withered vine from which springs forth not
fruit but dust and weeds. Else why would people be so quick to argue
about things of no importance. Words placed by man between man and god.
Words made by man, spoken by man, defined by man and written by man.

Words can give but a glimmer of light to what is a blazing of glory.

AdventureBegins wrote ;"And organized religion is the withered vine from
which springs forth not
fruit but dust and weeds"


That has to be the best way of describing organized religion I have ever
seen!!

To be part of a branch or body as the scriptures also say. Then we
will not say to the eye i have no need for you. but if this is part of
our body we take care of it and agree in the same through our body. To
say we are of the same branch and not be in unity of how our creater
wishes for his children to act. Then we are not adopted children.
because Yahweh is adopting those who wish for him to be thier father.
Then those adopted children become inheritors of his the same as his own
son Yahshua. If you do not put Yahweh and his words 1st then all the
good you do in the world is for nothing. because what is it Yahweh can
not do? Do you think we can save someone? No Yahweh does the calling
through us. Then by thier actions towards him he does the choosing. Thus
"many are called but few are chosen' So thier is a way to eternal life
but few thier is who find it. Study to show yourself approved. So that
the spirit of life will guide you... Shalom... Miles

Pure Hindu does not worship Idols.

From a historical perspective, image worship (mUrti-pUjA) is a
relatively recent development within the Hindu tradition, with the
oldest extant images of the classical Pauranik deities dating from the
Gupta period (c. 3rd to 7th centuries CE). In the Vedic era that
preceded this, worship was primarily centred around the open-air fire
altar (yajna-kunda) and no physical representations of the divine were
used. A verse in the Yajur-veda (32.3) reads, “Of Him there is no
likeness (pratima), whose glory is infinite”. Idols are recent
(compared to how old this religion is) and so is the concept of many
Gods. In the begining of this religion there was but one God with many
attributes. The most often invoked attributes being The Begining,
That-which-Is, and The End. (Creation, now, Destruction) Wow! The
Alpha and the Omega and a three part God (just like Christiantity idn't
that amazin)

Islam

I find this thread very strange. We all make careless expressions from
time to time, say things we don't really mean. Most of us leap at the
opportunity to say "No, I didn't mean -that-, -this- is what I meant."

AB, thrice now someone has questioned whether you meant this literally:

>> Non christians either don't believe in god or have faith in God and God alone.

And you have yet to disclaim this statement. This leaves me wondering.
Wondering many things.

From Spider: "So you believe that there isn't a single religion that
practices idolatry?"

From me: "As it read, it sounded like you were saying 'absolutely no
non-Christians believe in idols, period.'"

From Trizar: "any religion that dosnt believe in christ would ne non
christian.. muslems worship statues, etc, hindus also, and otherss.. you
know this.."

It's funny how people can denounce organized religion but hold the Bible
in the utmost esteem within a single breath.

Apparently they don't realize that the Bible is strictly a result of
organized religion (who do you think decided which works made it in?
And who do you think decided that most of the Old Testament stories
needed to be written down? - leaders of organized religions did both),
as well as being a major tool in its perpetuation.

first of all lets face it some of your post are absolutely ridiculous to
even make this forum you are talking about how many different groups? i
said some of these things are out of had not because you have a
different view but you tried to speak for multi groups that don't fit
into your classifications i am a non christian i don't believe in any
religious sect.. so really why don't you make a posting that says "
common mis conceptions about my non christianity"

and all forms of organization have been messed with by man not just one
but all

adventure wrote How convieniant that the forum gets 'out of hand' when
a person posts a
view that is contrary to what a certain group believe.

I have the right to post these views as much as any one else has a right
to post their view.

I have not said any body is 'bad' for their views. I am not attacking
someones faith.

I am not judgeing anyone on here.

As far as my statements... Ignore them if you find them distasteful.
God gave us all free will use it. Only time will prove the right or
wrong of any of us.

thats what my first post was about i am not part of a certain group i
do not put myself in a classification i am not atheist i am not agnostic
i am not christian muslim jewish a hindu indian i am none of those..
there was no group being considered when i posted that the forum gets
out of hand

If you are none of those why do you challenge me on those.

If I am wrong prove me wrong.

Every religion in these times follows some form of Idolatry.

And yet through research one finds that of the ones I studied to date
all started out without any Idols. Even the so called panthestic
religions started out with one god and split into several.

Excellent! Glad you admitted your initial statement was incorrect.

I don't care much about whatever tangential arguments you or others
might want to make out of it. At least now we all truly know you did
not actually mean to say that 'no non-Christians worship idols'.

Tue 06/12/07 09:47 PM
1. Non Christians worship idols.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. Idols are any thing that
stands between you and god. Non christians either don't believe in god
or have faith in God and God alone.

'Thou shalt have no god before me.

2. Non Christians will not receive 'salvation'. Non Christians don't
need salvation. They have God on their side without the need of ritual
eating of the flesh, groveling before an idol, or living by man made
doctrines and rituals.

3. Non Christians are not saved. God saves us all and in the final
tally will not count religion where he looks for faith.

4. Non Christains have misconceptions about christians. HE HE HE most
of us could care less how a christian worships as long as they allow us
to do our thing also.


pagans have multiple Gods and Goddesses that they believe in while many
worship the mother earth they also recognize the father , while i am not
a pagan expert i can tell you that much...

also native americans believe in multiple gods and goddesses to pray to
they don't see their gods or goddesses as idols

and salvation is a christian term that hell has only become popular in
through christianity but while you may not consider it salvation other
religions do believe that you have to live a good life and you have to
stay on a the life force path like native americans they believe you can
get out of balance and if you don't get back in you can never be
satisfied

buddhist believe that you have to follow precepts in ordered to reach
enlightenment if not you are reborn into one of the worlds mentioning
to number 1 the first set of worlds has to do with titans and demi gods
again not idols but multiple gods

in taoism theres the equaling of the yin and the yang without them you
can't be able to follow the path life will be wrong for you

salvation is a christian term, but for many religions there is a form
of salvation which is comparable

many non christians do have doctrines that they live by. esp buddhist
have many many doctrines

then when you say god saves us all first of all that only shows the
culture and context you believe, if people do not believe in God or
your God then your God to them is not truth and in fact they could
careless if s/he saves them from whatever you believe they need saving
from --- to say this is ridiculous and doesn't even cover non christians
in any way

and then we could careless about how christians live.. excuse me who
are you to make that judgement that all non christians don't care
because i can tell you rigth now I do care

what you've attempted to do is segregate religions into christians and
non christians first of all thte category is to broad, second of all
this is a ridiculous forum because none of your points cover all
religions, scholars don't even agree on a definition of religion because
to define it is to cut someone out!

I would suggest you stop trying to find differences and find
similiarties because it is only when we realize that we are all united
on this big giant green and blue ball called earth that we truly begin
to care and have tolerance towards those who are different.

Native americans do not worship multiple gods and goddesses.

They worship the one god...the great spirit.

The rest of their panethon are spirits contained withing something i.e a
tree has a spirit but it is contianed within the Great Spirit. A
mountain has a spirit but it is under the Great Spirit.

The main god of so called paganizm is a mother/father duality that also
contains the human. (Wow! A trinity) all the other gods within paganizm
are still subject to will of the Earth Mother (one aspect of the
duality)

You asked me to show the simularities and not the divisions.

WHAT DO YOU THINK I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DO. See my post on the
teachings of Krishna.

When you strip away all the man made words, doctrines, translations,
rituals, and definintions they are all the same.

Egyptian God Ra was the One God. He had a son by Isis that became the
God Horus through a miracle birth. (sound familiar)

There are simularities in them all. There is but one God.

um excuse me would you like mne to get my note book down and then start
naming off thet different gods that a few groups have?? really you are
ridiculous to even say that tell me what native american groups have you
studied to even make that statement to begin with?

then what do you say to the buddhist who don't put their faith in a god

or to taoist

or agnostics
or atheist who are also considered non christians.

EVERONE HAS THEIR OWN GOD?

☼ Itzamna- high god of maya culture, creator of human beings, he carries
the mirror of obsidian which is a tool in which he can see and control
the future, but you shouldn’t look in the mirror or else the spirits may
steal your soul also he is the high god of
 scribes, painting, drawing – he is over the monkey and associated
with the world tree at the axis mundi world center, he resides in the
13th level ( highest) of heaven also
 over all priests and is the first one, if you want to make a
offering you can do it by rattles or you can dip this little stick
priests carry into water and do blessing.

☼ Ix chel (I)- he manifest with 4 others moon goddess
 Goddess of women, this could be xquic rom story, she shows up as young
goddess, virgin goddess, who has power to give birth without having sex,
she is associated with the young corn means you must plant your corn at
a certain time in accordance with the moon phases

☼ Sun god ) kinich ahau- youthful god, symbolized usually with the
jaguar
 priest of sun is the highest rank of a priest you can be
 He is the god over specifically warriors
 God of wealth and power
 Give offerings to this God by fire and blood, warriors priests and
rulers can give their own blood but they way they do it for men is to
stick this stingray tail into their penis and let it bleed onto a
cloth, the woman sticks it through her tongue, they then burn it , and
let the serpent spirit rise up through smoke to the god

☼ Rain god- chac
 God of rain , thunder, lightning he carries lightning instrument in
stone to call the lightning ( serpent)
 You can ask him to stop rain; usually chac is associated with
positiveness because you need the rain in order to have growth, but as
with all gods they are dangerous.
 You use snakes, like holding them in your mouth and dancing with them
in order to call on the rain
 Chac can be a war god by having power of lightning in gun

☼ Corn god- yum kax- lord of all crops/ harvest
 Usually youthful the iconography associated with is the corn cop with
a face, if you don’t treat plats correctly you cannot use the 3 sisters…
 The local priests are known for doing blessings in the corn field
 They associate the corn with being a gift of the ancestors, which it
is since the ancestors had to plant it and nourish it
 White corn is used for the most sacred ceremonies,
 When you cut corn its like decapitating someone’s head, corn silk is
the hair, and the pollen is the most sacred they collect it for being
a source of life for ceremonies

☼ Death God- ah puch
 he is the most comical of god, since everyone has to meet him
 He is associated with a type of hell, and he is the over searer of the
lower realm
 He is the anal god, and in this type of underworld there is a lot of
poo, he is a trickster figure and is associated with dogs and owls

I have lived with and talked to them. There is more than one way to
study. The being that modern universities, professors and such have
named gods are in their stories but aspects of the great spirit.
Translations leave a lot to be desired.