Mog (Prince/ruler of Magog) and Magog (Russia)
Persia (Iran)
Cush (Ethiopia and Sudan)
Put (Libya)
Gomer (Spain and France)
Togarmah (Turkey and various Russian satellite countries)

These countries will attack Israel. God will destroy their armies, not
because the Israelites are good people, but because He wants to teach
the world to fear Him again. God will destroy their armies dramatically
with fire and the prophecy says several times "and they will know that I
am the LORD."

Is there supposed to be a big battle (Armageddon???) and then the second
coming? The Jews get destroyed?

I was talking about this with a friend a while back and he was saying
things like this.

Thanks....

Oceans5555,

The Jews will not be destroyed. What will happen is that they will be
eventually driven out of Israel by the anti-Christ. They will flee to
(I can't remember where...I think it's southern Lebenon, but I can't
find the scripture), where they will be protected by God. A huge army
from the east (probably China) will confront the anti-Christ. Then
Jesus will decend, what will follow will be the complete slaughter of
the armies involved in Armageddon. 1/3 of the Bible is prophecy. 50%
is fullfilled. That leaves a lot that is going to happen and the
current thought is that most of it will happen during the seven years of
the tribulation.

Many thanks, Spider. Good morning!

I realize that I may be asking you to do some research in the Bible and
appreciate your doing so.

When do these seven years of tribulation statrt, and what is involved?

The battle of armageddon involves the armies of Persia, Russia, the
Middle East, the Jews? Others?

And it is the Chinese who will then take down the anti-Christ? (I
assume that Satan is the anti-Christ, right?)

I am realizing that you are using some of the these terms -- like 'seven
years of tribulation' as a bit of short-hand. You know what they mean,
but they don't have content yet for me. They are certainly suggestive,
and pique my curiosity! I thank you for hanging in here.



Oceans

Oceans5555

Q: When do these seven years of tribulation statrt, and what is
involved?

A: Nobody knows when the Tribulation will start, but we do have clues.
The biggest clue is that all the Jews who were scattered throughout the
world will be brought back together into their land. The Tribulation
will be a period of unprecedented suffering for all life on earth. We
are told that it will only be because God takes mercy on the world that
any flesh will survive.

Q: The battle of armageddon involves the armies of Persia, Russia, the
Middle East, the Jews? Others?

A: The anti-Christ will also be involved. As well as China. Armies
from all over the world will be involved, but we will be suffering so
greatly, that many countries wont be able to be involved.

Q: And it is the Chinese who will then take down the anti-Christ? (I
assume that Satan is the anti-Christ, right?)

A: No, the winner in that fight will be Jesus. Anti-Christ is a term
that means anyone who rejects Jesus. It means you are against the
Messiah. When Christians speak of "The" anti-Christ, we are talking
about the "Beast from the Earth" described in Revelation 13:11-18.

The Tribulation is also called "Daniel 70th week". Daniel made a
prophecy that the fate of Israel would be determined in 70 weeks. Each
week is actually seven years. The first through sixty ninth weeks were
consecutive, ending with the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. Daniel
70th week (seven years) will lead to the end of the world. The Beast
will sign a seven year peace treaty with Israel. 3.5 years after the
peace treaty is established, the Abomination of Desolation will occur.
3.5 years later, Jesus will return.

The Tribulation will see the majority of humanity destroyed, by humanity
and natural disasters. This will lead some people to love God and seek
His protection. Most people, however, will reject God and curse him.
This will bring down plagues onto humanity. Supernatural events will
happen daily, including several Angels flying about telling people to
repent and accept Jesus.

Who wrote Revelations?

I did it, I wrote Revelations, yep it was me, wanted to scare the
beejeebers out of everyone..did it work yet???

John

Jesus, Daniel, Ezekiel, John the apostle and others all wrote/spoke
about the tribulation. Everything that was taught before was tied
together in Revelation, but you really have to go back to the Old
Testament and the synoptic gospels to get a full view of what will
happen.

He He He CCB

Yeah it worked.

TLW which John?

There are three possible authors of Revelations.

modern scholars believe that John the Apostle, John the Evangelist, and
John of Patmos refer to three separate individuals because of
differences in their writing styles. However none of their writing
styles matches that of the style in The Book of Revelations (which in
its original title is actually called "The Revelation of the Theologian"
not the "Revelation of John"). The writing style of the Book of
Revelations fits the writing style of a man called John of Giscala.

This whole thing could get quite confusing. Here is yet another
question for the scholars of Biblical prophesy.

Some believe that Jesus was actually manifest within several humans.
Assuming a particular role for a particular time period.

Not sure if this was in the form of possession, for lack of a better
word, no offense intended, or if the person or prophet was born with the
identity.

Which brings up the question, when Jesus returns, will it again be by
birth? Or will it be by 'possession' or will it be other???

If by birth or by possession, this leads us to question our ability to
construct the self-fulfilling prophesy.

Here's my example: in a world being pounded with the kinds of horror,
terror, desolation, that Spider describes through scripture, it would
seem natural that those of faith would follow the same course that
history shows us occurred in Jesus time. This would set the stage for
some ingenious people to plan a strategy, that would at some point,
divulge their new (man-created) Christ. It would be easy enough to take
a child from birth and make them believe they are, in fact, Jesus. With
the right backing, the right media coverage and the right upbringing, I
think there would be enough people "ready" to believe that prophesy was
being completed.

I'm not saying this is bad, for it's possible, if the stage was very
well set, that this may ultimately bring about the continuity of the
flailing masses, and bring mankind out of the turmoil. Though, I hope
we would be smart enough to see this if it were to happen. But there's
no accounting for what the desperate masses, might think or do.

Just thinking aloud, as it were, my thoughts alone and no offense meant
to anyone.

Redykeulous,

Matthew 24:27
------------------------------------------------------------
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the
west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
------------------------------------------------------------

Revelation 6:16
------------------------------------------------------------
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the
face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
------------------------------------------------------------

Jesus' coming will be seen and known for what it is throughout the
world. There will be no birth or possession. Jesus never possessed
anyone in the past and he was only born once.

No offense Spider, but I have read other's opinion within these posts
that indicate that the persona of Jesus actually took human form through
older prophets. Elija is one, I would have to review to find the
other(s).

Also, the scripture you quote is quite vague. The power you give it is
through your belief. For me, interpreting these verses within the
setting of all that would be occuring could mean that some major event,
such as a nuclear one, might herald the news that Jesus is here, by
placing him near the event or having something to do with the even would
guarantee that there would be followers who would agree with some
interpretation of these scriptures that makes sense at the time.

How did the whole thing with the Star of Bethlehem come about?
Someone's interpretation was accepted.

It matters not, what people at this moment think scripture means, that
can change if the logic created appeals to the desperation of suffering
masses.

As in the time of Jesus, there will no doubt be those who cling to the
'old beliefs' as you see them today, but it is the suffering masses
whose only hope of salvation from the suffering that will determine if
prophesy is being or has been fulfilled.

In Jesus time many looked for a King, one to take control and smite the
enemy and make peace reign here on earth for the fathfull. When this
is not what happened, the Jews became seperated from the new sect that
would become the Christians of today.

Again, this is all for the sake of discussion and from a psychological
view point, I can so see this all happening. If there is one thing
among humans that causes the masses to have an "open" psyche, it would
be mass suffering. People, no matter their past religious convictions,
will give up past beliefs, for the hope of salvation from turmoil, most
especially if the new beliefs are distributed with some logic that will
allow the continuence of their previous faith.

Thought this intresting...just came in my e-mail..not sure if it is all
true

&nbs! p;VERY INTERESTING-

1. The Garden of Eden was in Iraq .

2. Mesopotamia, which is now Iraq, was the cradle of civilization!

3. Noah ! ;built the ark in Iraq .

4. The Tower of Babel was in Iraq

5. Abraham was from Ur, which is in Southern Iraq !
6. Isaac's wife Rebekah is from Nahor, which is in Iraq !

7. Jacob met Rachel in Iraq .

8. Jonah preached in Nineveh - which is in Iraq .

9. Assyria, which is in Iraq, conquered the ten tribes of Israel .

10. Amos cried out in Iraq !

11. Babylon, which is in Iraq, destroyed Jerusalem .

12. Daniel was in the lion's den in Iraq !

13. The three Hebrew children were in the fire in Iraq (Jesus had been
in Iraq also as the fourth person in the Fiery furnace!)

14. Belshazzar, the King of Babylon saw the "writing on the wall" in
Iraq .

15. Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, carried the Jews captive into !
Iraq .

16. Ezekiel preached in
Iraq.

17. The wise men were from Iraq

18. Peter preached in Iraq .


19. The "Empire of Man" described in Revelation is called Babylon,
which was a city in Iraq!

And you have probably seen this one. Israel is the nation most often
mentioned in the Bible. But do you know which nation is second? It is
Iraq ! However, that is not the name that is used in the Bible The
names used in the Bib! le ;are Babylon , Land of Shinar , and
Mesopotamia . The word Mesopotamia means between the two rivers, more
exactly between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers The name Iraq ,
means country with deep roots.

Indeed Iraq is a country with deep roots and is a very significant
country in the Bible.

No other nation, except Israel , has more history and prophecy
associated it than Iraq .

And also, This is something to think about! Since America is typically
represented by an eagle. Saddam should have read up on his Muslim
passages...

The following verse is from the Koran, (the Islamic Bible)

Koran ( 9:11 ) - For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a
fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the
lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair
still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of
Allah; and there was peace.
(Note the verse number!) Hmmmmmmm?!

Redykeulous,

If you read the quoted scripture in context, it becomes very clear.
Another thing is that when Jesus returns, all of His followers will be
caught up (raptured) into the air to meet Him. Jesus' first coming was
with the crying of a baby, His return will be the roar of a lion.

When Jesus was transfigured before His followers, they saw Jesus, Elijah
and Moses all standing before them. During the end times, Elijah and
Moses will be preaching in Jerusalem, when Jesus returns. Elijah
contemplated suicide. Elijah ran and hid in a cave and was afraid of
Jezabel. Elijah worked miracles, but he had to pray and sing before
doing so to fill himself with the Holy Spirit, Jesus need to do no such
thing. Someone could claim that Jesus possessed Elijah, but that
statement would be completely unscriptural.

I see it often pointed out that the Bible can mean so many things, that
there are so many different interpretations. Think about the "Blind Men
and the Elephant". Christians speak of spiritual blindness, because it
really exists. Without the gift of spiritual discernment that is
granted by the Holy Spirit, the scriptures cannot be interpreted
correctly. The Bible was intentionally written to confuse the
non-Believer. If it appears as nonsense to someone, then they won't see
any reason in destroying it.

Wildflowerjj,

Some of that is true, but there is no such verse in the Koran.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/quran911.asp

Spider, Redy, JJ, thanks for your postings here... I appreciate the time
you are putting into these questions and discussion.

They are confusing to me, I have to admit. It seems that a lot of
assumptions are being made about what terms used in the Bible refer to.
But I am also confused by what seems like an enormously complex scenario
being laid out. Why would God make things so complicated? It reads a bit
like a Hollywood horror film script.

And the way it sounds is like God is taking some pleasure in playing
with people as if they are toys.

I am sure there is more to it than this -- why would want a God that
toys with people? It seems to me that we can do better than this, no?

There must be verses in the Bible that portray a more generous future,
no?

Spider, can you recommend an edition of the Bible? This is making me
even more curious.

Again, many thanks!

Oceans

No other nation, except Israel , has more history and prophecy
associated it than Iraq .
-------------------------------------------------------------
there wasnt a country called Isreal back then.. Isreal started
exsistence in 1950s? or bit sooner I believe.the city of inportance was
and is jerusleum.. (sic?)
that area was called and conquered by different armys. Once the jews
ruled it (tribe of Judah) and the country which was big , was called
Judah.then they were driven out by another army and so on and so on.
now even if the country is called isreal, it is really the same people
jews meaning tribe of Judah.

now if all the jews in the world are going to the holy land as was
mentioned, what about the vast tribes of other isrealites?

a jew is a jew yes cause they are from tribe of Judah. and they are also
Isrealite.. the other isrealites are not jews, but they are
isrealites... so question is, is GFod calling all jews (just one tribe)
or is he calling all Isrealites?

How long ago was Palsms written?

"For, behold, Thine enemies make an uproar... They have said, ’Come, and
let us wipe them out as a nation, that the name of Israel be remembered
no more.’" (Psalm 83:2-4)

And when was Romans written?

"...blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the
Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,
There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away
ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall
take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for
your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the
fathers’ sakes . . ." Romans 11:25-28

Oceans, you posted: And the way it sounds is like God is taking some
pleasure in playing
with people as if they are toys.

I am sure there is more to it than this -- why would want a God that
toys with people? It seems to me that we can do better than this, no?

Gotta read it man. You have "free will" to do that. I was an atheist
until the age of 32. I won't go into it more than that but I will simply
say that your way is already known but you have to find it. Man! I'm
starting to sound like AB, aye?