You make it sound like a bad thing?

Oceans5555,

The misery at the beginning will be entirely the work of men. God will
eventually send curses against the people who follow the Anti-Christ,
but only because they will know that He exists and continue to blaspheme
His name. Christians will be spared from the curses, we are not
appointed to receive the wrath of God. God will not be playing with
anyone. When a winged angel flys over your city yelling "Repent" and
you instead curse God, you should already have a pretty good idea about
what is going to happen to you. When two prophets in Jerusalem heal the
sick and breath fire on anyone who tries to hurt them, it's time to put
disbelief aside.

I would suggest you start with NIV or NASB. KJV and NKJV are both nice,
but a little more difficult to read.

Many will call 'lord, lord'....

Not all christians.

All Christians, just not everyone who says they are a Christian. A
Christian is someone who follows Christ, if you aren't truely following
Christ, then you aren't really a Christian.

Good point.

AB, if you were talking to me I am sorry. I didn't mean to seem like I
was coming off in a bad way. I try not to push. Everyone is on their
walk and if we were all on the same sidewalk it would get a little
boring. We would all just nod in unison like a bunch of bobble heads. My
change was a very radical and personal one and I simply choose to keep
it off the internet. I would be happy to explain it in e-mail but
putting it on the board would be akin to donning a steak suit and juping
into the crocodile pit. lol Aye?

No spider, then you are a carnal Christian.

Aye zap and if you do feel the urge to share... I listen well.

Spider you misunderstood my post.

I was reminding you of the 'lord, lord...' paragraph in the bible,
because I have seen many that profess his teachings with their lips and
do nothing by his teachings.

The next sentence was a shorthand way of saying that not all the saved
will be christian. God will save by works. There are many on this
planet that do works as if they were the very spirit of Jesus. Those
also will be saved reguardless of the name on their lips.

AB, you might want to check that. For by grace are you saved, not by
works, which is not to say...... aw crap! I'm not getting sucked into
this. I love all of you guys and I value your opinions but religion gets
too heated and I value my friends as much as my faith. I'm going to the
naughty chair for a while.

Spider knows what I am talking about. He knows those scriptures way
better than I do.

The disciples speak on that subject many times. Grace aye, but grace
without works is a hollow thing.

correct

Gotta let the eyelids slam shut for the night. You guys have a good
one!

AB,

You are talking about James 2, verse 20 in particular. It's nothing
new, a good vine puts forth good fruit. People who are truely saved put
forth good fruit, they are good people who do good things. That doesn't
mean that you can be saved by doing good things, it means that someone
who is saved will show it through their works.

Ah but will God care which branch of the vine the good fruit are on when
he comes to collect the harvest.

Rather will he do as any owner of a sweet garden and pluck forth ALL the
good fruit and leave the vine to seed the next crop.

Jesus is the vine. We are the branches. Only branches that grow off
the vine will produce the fruit that God desires.

Abraham was a Branch.
Krishna was a Branch.
Zoroaster was a Branch.
Jesus is the green Branch from the offshoot of Jesse.

You are a Branch.

The vine is greater for the multitudes of its branches. The Most Great
Branch is the Human race. With out each of us the harvest would be but
small dismal thing. The field is Gods. That which is Gods allways
produces in abundance.

As Bible prophesy goes (IMO) we have looked at the end of this age all
wrong. One thing why would Yahshua say that the temple would be
destroyed and in 3 days raise it up? he did exactly that . The Holy
spirit came and man became the Temple of Yahweh. Then around 70ad the
physical temple was destroyed. So why do we all believe thier will be
another temple built? We are the Temple. So what is the abomination that
makes desolate? What is happening in the middle east today? Are they not
trying as AB quoted Ps 83 you are surrounded by your enemies.Is not
thier whole agenda to push Israel into the sea? Total destruction of
it's people? Desolation? The Abomination what or lets say who is this?
Does not rev. say where the anti-messiah is? Where satans seat is? I do
not believe thier will be a physical temple built. I believe it is
already thier. The Dome on the Rock. What is Yahshua called? The
foundation of the truth.The Rock. Even deut.32 speaks of 2 Rocks. It
speaks of yahshua and a rock that can not stand. This time of the
Abomination that makes desolate i do not believe will be a Temple built
for Yahweh that the Anti-messiah will stand up declaring himself Elohim.
No He will do it in The Dome on The Rock. Mockery. He will claim to be
an Arab Diety. He will claim Allah as The Most High. If history proves
it self true the jews would never allow anyone to enter thier Temple who
was from Hagar. They would fight to the death not flee. The war in Iraq
can clearly be seen as the 3rd seal of Rev. with the rider having a pair
of scales in his hands. What are we forcing on the world? Is a pair of
scales not our symbol for justice/ Are we not dealing out so called
justice to spread democracy? The 3rd seal is almost over and the 4th
seal will come quickly as i have tried to warn about. Death, hunger,
brother against brother to feed thier family. Why do I say that? Ethanol
Production as I have posted many articles from agricultural experts on
the dangers that we are putting us in with the depletion of our corn
supply for fuel. The advantages of this new fuel over food is a disaster
waiting to happen. China in jan. of 2007 outlawed all Ethanol production
because of fear of widespread hunger if we have a bad corn year. Our
groceries arealready going up. Experts are saying very likely we may see
6 to 10 dollar corn by fall. 4 dollar eggs by august. Yet we hear
nothing of this from our own govt. They continue to push for more
production even though in thier own reports show that Ethanol fuel will
only decrease Green house gasses by 2/10's of 1 % by 2017. Wow thats
alot of eviromental gain? But who really gains from this fuel. ADM this
year projects a 5 billion dollar extra profit from ethanol. In 2008 they
will make an extra 7.5 billion extra profit. Who is the real winner that
no one hears aboiut? Also the Billionaire Bronson( the one who owns
irgin Airlines) has announced he is building 7 new large Ethanol plants
in the midwest right now. Did you know that? The Billionaires know where
the money is. So see the 4th seal i believe is right around the corner.
When Iraq settles down look for a major drought. I may be crazy but I
believe we should be stocking up on canned foods to prepare ourselves.
To not only feed our families but to feed others around us, so that they
will praise Yahweh (as foretold) because of our preparing. I must sound
like an alarmist. But ask yourselves and do some searching on the web,
why has China banned Ethanol production in thier country? What would
happen to corn prices if we have a bad drought? An extra 15% of our
farmland this year has been dedicated to corn production as the farmers
jump on the bandwagon. So 15% of our farmland is not being used for
soybeans, milo ect. So if a drought would come what would happen to corn
prices? What would happen to beef,hogs,chickens anything that uses corn
prices? The Ethanol producers see make contracts with farmers for all
thier corn before the crop is even planted. No matter what they get the
corn or say maybe goodbye to the family farm? Don't believe me do your
own research on the subject and come to your own conclusions. take care
.... Miles

Spider -- re. Bible versions, what is 'NIV or NASB'?

Thanks,
Oceans

Oceans5555,

NIV = New International Version

NASB = New American Standard Bible

TNIV = Today's New International Version

If you can get one, I would go with an NASB (it's not like it's hard to
find, but you will probably have to go to a Bible store or a large book
store to get one). Also, try to find a Strong's Concordance to go with
it. A Bible dictionary would also help, especially if you get one with
the original words and meanings. Or you can just go to www.BLB.com and
use their resources.

Thanks for the info, Spider.

Oceans