I'm still thinking about your questions, Hanged... the distinction
between manifesting what you truly want, and what you think you want, is
key. Many times i have had some superficial desires for somethings, and
warred internally, and undermined my own effort to obtain it.

I find theistic metaphors very interesting and applicable... if a person
sincerely makes it their first priority to 'do Gods will', it seems to
me they will avoid the pitfall of confusing their superficial desires
with their true desires.

Perfection does not allow you to truly live to feel the things we must
feel in order to know the difference between the good and bad parts of
the road of life

The only problem there Massage is your talking to an Atheist,so I don't
how I would fit god's will into it.

This reminds me of a book I'm currently reading called 'The Law of
Attraction.' The book states that if you send out positive thoughts to
the Universe, you will receive positive vibes and good things in return,
the same thing happens when you send out negative thoughts. I think it
is possible to influence the Universe in this regard and so influence
your life and create your own reality, as I've noticed that my good days
generally coincide with a positive mindset and vice versa. I'm going to
keep reading and working on this.

A little helpful hint? For an atheist?

"For the greater good of all, go i?"

When imagining then creating, manifesting realities, when the highest
intent is the outcome, and not the desire nature, then "everything is as
it should be", no matter how one arrives there..

and on that note I hear a lotus leaf calling
me.....

Hanged, I'm also an atheist (the so-called 'weak' kind). All I'm saying
is, that when a theist seeks to do God's will, they (hopefully) are
setting aside more superficial aspects of their own desires. They are
turning to God, and I believe many of them start by going deep within
themselves. An atheist can also set aside their superficial desires,
and can also go deep within themself. My impression (???) is that
these things are necessary , prerequisite, to do the kind of thing which
I believe (???) Jess is talking about here.

LMAO

Yeah, if not for god then for man.

Oh. Posts out of sync. Jess already said that, in a different way.

Oh, and I was laughing 'bout the lotus leaf.

Posts -way- out of sync my previous comment was about how
Jess had already said what I had tried to say.

Another chapter closed in the UNIVERSE. SHAKESPEARE SAID IT BEST, TO BE
OR NOT TO BE? ARE we not asking the same question?

there she goes taking off with my lotus leaf again

If you believe in something it is a conviction... or a faith. I used to
believe I was telepathic.. but I just heard voices my doctors prescribed
as schizophrenia. The doctors said the voices were hallucinations.

As for reality.... it depends. Emotions like conviction are part of the
experience. Thoughts color experience... but with a grain of salt there
are some things that shouldn't be beleived in because it is a lie. To
beleive in a lie is denial... another psychosis that could be treated by
a psychiatrist. I don't beleive in tooth fairies or fundamentalism. I
do however believe in the plausable like the existence of
extraterrestrials. I iffy about big foot or the loch ness monsters.
These things make for good bedtime stories... but would have to beleived
by a great many people to experience synergy.

Great topic. There is so much at work in these words. We do a great
deal of talking in these forum discussions about seeing the bigger
picture. In other words, once a pebble is cast into the water, you can
keep your eye and thoughts on the pebble and then anticipate the affect
of this action by watching the disruption of the sand as the pebble hits
bottom. But in the bigger picture there is affect much more far
reaching as the ripples spread and water is displaced and disrupted.

To me, when we try to determine what is reality, we have to leave out
the causes and affects and bring into light the "what" of the
involvement. Example: I have cast a pebble into the water. What is
involved? Me, a pebble, water, these things are reality, twenty poeple
could be standing at different locations on the shore and watch me cast
that pebble into the water, and you will recieve 20 different views of
what happened.

Each view is reality, to the person describing it, yet each is
different. In this case it is the perception that has created reality,
but when all like denominators are gathered, you will always come up
with Me, the pepple and the water.

It is perception that allows us OUR reality. It is truth when all parts
of every reality are whittled down to like common denominators.

Perception is not truth, but it is reality
Reality is not truth but only what one perceives
Truth is where all common denominators are the same.

sure due to the laws of attraction

Regards

TLW

Probably too late in the thread to be useful, but, I do say that if we
beleive something strongly enough it will come to pass, and thus, make
it real.

Case in point: In the 1930s there was no bomb that could level an entire
city. A group of men, a dozen or so, WILLED it into being. Think of it -
Einstein, Teller, Rutherford - working soley in abstract physics,
formulated and designed a nuclear weapon in their minds. In their
*minds*. They set to work in 38, and within 5 years the power of their
minds created the reality of the nuclear weapon.

Another case in point: Let us say that the Law of Moses was to be
followed until the Messiah arrived. The messiah would arrive when the
Law was "embraced and loved" by the very ppl it was meant to chastise.
And in that perspective, the arrival of Jesus was WILLED into being by
the observant Jews who loved the Law.

-Mike

That is an interesting theory Mike.

Terrible thought for you.

What if the constant wanting for that final trumpet to sound is causing
them to 'will' the end times.

AB wrote "What if the constant wanting for that final trumpet to sound
is causing them to 'will' the end times."


Yeah that sorta makes clear the idea that "freewill" is really "Divine
Will". So, I imagine, eventually enough ppl will have the faith to make
the Apocalypse fulfilled. Fortunately, there are ppl like me who think
the Apocalypse was already fulfilled, so, my 'lack of future-faith'
prevents a recurring Apocalypse. <grin>