What would have happened to the United States economically and politically if President Bush didn't send any troops to Afghanistan or Iraq? That would be interesting to know.

HE helped underachievers everywhere believe that it was possible to become President.

More haters than lovers quietman 2009

I'm in the us navy. I'm aganist this war. I joined thr navy to better myself and to serve my country. but what I do, I'm not involved in this war in anyway besides saying I'm in the navy.

i don't think anyone is paying attention to your posts and, instead, is hearing only what they want to hear, which is just the voices in their own heads.

thanks for it though; it's interesting and educating to me.

What about the Bush doctrine is great? Please explain....is it the Patriot Act which could be equated to the invasion of privacy in the former Weimer Republic? Or is it the shoot first ask questions later war strategy? Let's not forget the good ole policy of only allies to America can have nukes but noone else.

ummmm I think that would be called the "Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty" which was around long before George Bush

and which Iran is a member (Korea withdrew from it years ago)

Israel is a member too which is why they will never admit one way or another what they have in violation

for thtt matter India and Pakistan signed it too. and they are in violation


there are just TOO many people who speak from total ignorance and have no idea what they are mouthing just because they heard some popular catchphrases on their favorite lunatic web site

like I said Bush screwed some things up and he did some things that will be considered great. You have to weigh them all in totality to determine his effectiveness as a President

and as long as every assesment of his Presidency is prefaced with "I hate George Bush" then there is no realistic assessment. Just more propaganda

That is a kinda interesting what if

If Saddam had stayed in power? sooner or later he would have retaken Kuwait. He wanted it so bad he was foaming at the mouth. Saddam had an illusion of making Iraq the seat of Islam excpet he was too secular and concerned only with power.

Most likely we would have seen a war between Iraq and Saudi


In Aghanistan, if the Taliban had stayed in power it prolly would have spread to Pakistan and Tajikstan and we prolly would have seen Iran, Pakistan, and Afghanistan merge into a great Islamic Republic. Which in and of itself wouldnt be a bad thing but the Wahabis would have had the power and influence to enforce their brand of sharia on most all of Islam

and in the end long run I suspect we would have wound up with a world wide religious war

if (and its a big if) twenty years from now Iraq is a democratic stable government. Ruled for the people by the people through a binding Constitution then Bush will prolly be seen as a visionary and the few excesses that he did will be forgotten


if it doesnt happen then he will prolly be seen on a level as Jimmy Carter and a failed Presidency

It seems to me that the people of these countries want to have a Islamic Republic. Many wish to be Muslims and believe this is the way of life. These internal conflicts in the Middle East have been going on for thousands of years. I find it amusing that the United States had to get involved. Perhaps the US should have worried more about its own problems.

There are many reasons why the Middle East as of alot of countries are not happy with the way the United States conducts its business let alone get involved into their affairs.

It started back in the 50's when the US got involved in the Middle East and it never stopped there. You guys got yourself in a bad trap and it looks like it won't end because the people of this country and its government believe they need to be over there creating democracies and setting up order.

I don't see the US mingling with China after they took Tibet as of alot of other countries that have done their own decisions without the US mingling with them.

Saddam Hussein mentioned that Kuwait is a part of Iraq historically. So in their view they are just reclaiming what is theirs in the beginning. Of course we will see mixed emotions on that.

I don't believe he would have taken Saudia Arabia. That is something the United States convinced the Monarchy to have reason to put bases on Saudi Arabian soil. The administration had alot of business over there and they wanted to secure it at the time. This of course was a big mistake because many Muslims don't want "infidels" on their land. Their history has shown that "crusades" and they don't want that to happen again.

The Prince and his Taliban was revealed as a hero in Saudi Arabia and asked his father to fight the Iraqi's if they choose to invade Kuwait. He mentioned that he doesn't want infidels on holy soil. His father denied this and that is where discouragement settled. The Taliban as of the Al'Qaeda have their reasons why they don't want Western influence in the lands that have existed for a long time. Why can't we as Americans respect that. If we did we wouldn't have 5000 soldiers dead and over 36,000 terribly injured, and over 33% of the Army suffering Post Dramatic Depression. On top of that we have put ourselves in a debt that will be most difficult to repay if we don't come up with better business solutions in attaining wealth to restablize the economy. Our children will suffer the consequences for trying to fix an economy that shouldn't have happened. I don't blame only this war but also how banks conducted business with the people out of "greed" to attain quicker wealth as of various "corporations".


Trust me if the Middle East was more technologically advanced they wouldn't have allowed the US to interfere with their affairs. They would retailate alot more not allowing the US to determine the fate of a country that has existed many thousands of years before the US was even a country.

I also believe that Israel truly has a big influence in the United States decisions in the Middle East. I think the world powers at the time who agreed to create a Israel should have asked the neighboring countries if it is okay to do that. Obviously they cared less about how they felt and did it anyway. Today many of the Islamic countries are unhappy with this movement and country establishment that they still show it in this time and age. It seems since the more popular vote is amongst superpowers everyone jumps the bandwagen and agrees, instead of sitting down and recollecting history and thinking why didn't they even try to negotiate with these countries about the Zionist movement.

So yes Quietman it is a religious war for Islam use their religion and intergrate with their laws in many ways. The United States tries to tolerate religion, but Presidents sometimes still use religion as a reason to go to war.

I am sure "Axis of Evil" is not something I want to hear from a foreign country just because I am North Korean, Chinese, Iraqi, or any country that doesn't have the exact same laws as the US or the same idealogy that they want to enforce into other countries. Who is the US to tell the world how to be? It is time Americans to understand that your role is to communicate and work together with countries in peace and those countries that have problems need to work them out themselves or you will see an America that started out good, but ended up bad because they were to stubborn to listen.

Good luck on trying to recover a damaged economy and a political mishap because many countries are trying their best to help the US with large amounts of loans and credits including those countries that the Americans are so skeptical about. China being one of the biggest loaners at the moment.

Concerning the other things Bush did as for example helping Africans with the Aids Epidemic. One has to look at the reason why he did it. Yes to help with medical attention, but at what price. Most of Africa is being converted to Christianity because of this movement. Again religion has a big part of this foundation Bush is doing. It looks good, but one has to go deeper in understanding the real reason. I believe that Africans should be allowed to choose their own religion or faith and not only receive service if they baptize themselves to become Christians. You don't believe it! Research it.

Of course this will be denied by alot of Americans, but search deeper and you will see the reason. America has a huge Christian population so such funding was possible to help Africans with their problem. I blame the European nations as of China and the US for raping the resources from the Africans in the first place. They simply go to a continent (acting like they are going to help) claiming they are helping the country through loans. When loans can't be paid off they take the resources and take advantage of slave labor work prices to get their goods. These loans burdened by high interest that the country could never pay back with its best efforts leaving no other choice but to agree to the terms the superpower country asks for. Then these superpowers come down and give hope by giving them medicine and clothes and converting hopeless poor people into a religion ensuring better times. The nature of the human mind is predominately greedy (some less some more) and they will do whatever to gain the upperhand. Well Africa got raped big time and in the end the superpowers are making sure it will never get on its feet again unless they do exactly what they tell them to do.

As a Red Cross worker for over 15 years, I understand a valuable lesson from my trips to Africa. To truly help someone is to not ask for anything else back but a hand shake and a smile. Now that is helping and not the methods superpowers are doing by creating more debt in the country.

I also believe the No Left Behind Act, which was created by Bush, was always underfunded and never truly helped any American Schools. This is saddening for many students (children) will not get proper education for they don't have the technology, material, enthusiastic teachers, and help required to be prepared for the world. Of course parents play a big role, but do you truly expect a parent who didn't get a proper education to help their children?? Look at statistics on math and science and you will see how far behind the US is to many countries.

In the end I give Bush a "D" for his efforts. A "F" for his policies. A "F" for his speeches that really destroyed his career and trust throughout the world.

hahahaha his speeches were tortuous. I really felt for him when he tried to give speeches

if we're grading him, domestically I'd give him a "D" or so. He had a crappy rapport with the people

and a small footnote. Kuwait wasn't really a part of Iraq. Iraq itself never existed before the breakup of the Turkish Ottoman Empire. they were just provinces of it. As were Jordan, Saudi, and the UAE.

When the British and the Arabs defeated Turks, the land that is now Saudi was promised to to the sons of (crap, I can't remember his name. I'll google it later) BUT Ibn Saud beat them to it and held it as a united Arabia. So the sons got combined Ottoman provinces and named em TransJordan (now just Jordan) and Iraq with Kuwait as a small reward for the Emir there

The British Palestinian Mandate called for Palestine to be partitioned between the repatriated Jews and the local Arabs (there is no such thing as an ethnic Palestinian) From what I've read in the beginning, the local Palestinian Arabs had no problem with sharing the land with the Jewish settlers. The Jews worked their azzes off irrigating and clearing and draining swamps and planting trees and vineyards and made the region a MUCH more desirable place to live

I've seen some historical thesis presenting evidence that HItler was covertly pouring money and influence into the Arab leadership at the time. It is accepted that the Baath Party in Iraq was Pro-Nazi

oh sorry i'm rambling haha

Historically you are correct, but explain that to Saddam Hussein at the time who believed that Kuwait was part of Iraq historically. He had a different opinion on this.

In the end, I hope that America will rebound itself and find a better way to conduct foreign policies to ensure trust around the world, for if America doesn't start now, then it will see how many nations will create businesses and political ties without the US.

I too am but a simple man who wishes only peace in this world. A wish that most people want, but many don't understand or believe it can ever happen.

Does Hitler make you laugh too ?.
Hitler or Bush...?.
I see no difference do you !.

that just means you don't know shiit about Hitler

Although Bush was always accused of going for oil (we didn't get any) he also funded a high intensity program for the development of high efficiency solar cells and the technology to mass produce them. This program has doubled the efficiency of solar cell technology and has put America far in the front of world in this field. In the process he also boosted the tech level of several major US universities. As long as we don't give the technology away to China we will develop jobs and move towards energy self sufficiency because of it.

I either laugh or cry over certain things...I usually choose laughter.
Yeah, sometimes pictures of Hitler makes me laugh!
I'm sick of crying Tohyup...!!!

saw a really good thing on the business channel last night (yeah I'm a nerd. so what?)

it was a documentary on how 20 years ago under Clinton, the conscious decision was made to move our society away from manufacturing and production to a intellectual property society. We would allow the manufacturing to go overseas and retain licensing and copyrights

and OF COURSE the Chinese kept up their end of it and honored our intellectual property ("pirate CD" and China go together right?)

and it's because of that (partially) that we are in the unemployment shape we're in

it was interesting (and at least they didn't keep running through the room yelling "It's all George Bush's fault")

I give Bush credit for the tax cuts, but those were effectively canceled out by his big government spending and the phony wars and bailouts.

I don't blame Bush. I blame Congress and their decisions they make. I think the two party reign should have ended a long time ago. Of course this is my opinion.

You know shite about G.W. Bush .