The flapping of a single butterfly's wing today produces a tiny change in the state of the atmosphere. Over a period of time, what the atmosphere actually does diverges from what it would have done. So, in a month's time, a tornado that would have devastated the Indonesian coast doesn't happen. Or maybe one that wasn't going to happen, does.

Unfortunately, I don't have to. It's up to YOU - the one making the positive assertion - to prove it. You can't prove (to bring up the old argument) that invisible pink unicorns don't exist, yet it would be silly of me to expect you to do so. So your claim will remain unproven until you can come up with conclusive evidence that it is true.

Frankly, I don't comrehend what all of you are taling about?

The question is simple:

And the answer is even more simple:

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Very interesting post Smiles. I do understand what the "The enlightenment of the Buddha" is talking about. Its pantheism basically. Everything being connected.

As for the butterfly effect ... wow. I wonder what happens when I pick my nose?

What happened? Order came from chaos? How do you know?

How do you know that there was ever chaos to begin with?

What was chaotic? The big bang?

You don't know that.

Even if you accept the big bang, all you know is that energy and atoms were scattered far and wide. But if the atoms (or the rules and laws that determine what their shapes and properties will be) could have always been in place.

If that's the case, then there was never any genuine 'chaos' at all.

So we don't know that it happened.

We don't know with certainty that there was ever a time when things were ever chaotic in the deepest sense and meaning of that.

So we can't really say whether it ever happened or not.

It's anybody's guess. Scientists don't know.

In fact, the best theory we have to date is Inflation Theory and Inflation Theory starts out by suggesing that this universe began as a 'quantum fluctuation' in the quantum field. So it presumes that the laws of Quantum Mechanics pre-existed the Big Bang. If that's true (it may or may not be true), but if it is true, then there's no reason to believe that there was ever any chaos at any point in the entire process. At least not on the scale of defining what this univese would ultimately be like.

So you can't just say, "It happened".

In truth, we don't know whether order came from chaos or not.

Have you ever seen those pictures that when you stare at them in a certain way a three dimensional picture appears? Can you see the picture? I can. I have often attempted to help someone else see the picture and nothing I do or say or describe seems to help them see it.

This is the way I feel trying to get people to see what I see about this reality and this universe. If you can't see, you just can't see. There is no way I can make a person see that three dimensional picture if they can't see it.

Similarly, the schizophrenic can't convince others to hear the veiled commands to kill people in the barks from the dog next door. I imagine he would be very frustrated that no one else can hear what's so glaringly obvious to him. See my point?

Yes, I can see the 3-D pictures.

Okay so I decided to consult the Tarot for an answer to the question:

"Is the Universe intelligent?"

Card drawn: 7 of cups. In this card a woman sits in her chair daydreaming. The foggy swamp behind her represents her imagination and her dreams. The seven cups surrounding her represent dreams and myriad options. What she desires may be right under her nose just waiting to be seen and recognized, but the cups blend in so well with their surroundings that you can hardly see them and it is as if she does not see them at all. She just sits there and daydreams.

While the Emperor represents order efficiency and neatness this card stands for all that is sloppy, impractical and lax. The universe is lazy and disordered.

Actually you could call it chaotic. Perhaps “order” is what we strive for rather than the actual condition. This card may imply that the universe is a dream and the dreamer is in a lazy and chaotic state of mind. Or perhaps we are still half asleep, or just barley conscious.

The advice to the dreamer might be to manifest your dreams by using creative visualization to focus on specific goals and bring them into physical reality.

I interpret the card as meaning that the universe itself is not intelligent, but that it is a dream environment for intelligent life forms who co-create reality. They are ultimately responsible for the chaos and the order in their personal reality.

I'm not saying that order came from chaos. If that was the entire meaning of your post, then there is a misunderstanding. What I was saying is that the Universe happened. No matter how unlikely anything in it may be, the fact of the matter is that it's here.

That aside, I love reading about Inflation Theory and the idea that the Universe essentially "came from nothing."

If you can see the 3-D pictures, try helping someone who just can't see them to see them. It's not easy.

The images require you to relax your focus, which it seems some people can't physically do on command. If they can't, then they can't. There are techniques for doing just that, and they usually work.

But that's irrelevant, really...

Well, I'm certainly not in a position to argue against that.



Well, if you read "The Inflationary Universe", by Alan Guth (the physicist that gave birth to the idea of Inflation Theory), you'll see that he never claims that it came from "nothing". On the contrary he postulates that it came from a "quantum fluctuation".

But along with that, comes the necessary premise that the laws of quantum mechanics were already in place before the birth of this universe.

So unless you consider the 'quantum field' (and its behavioral laws) to be "nothing", it would be incorrect to say that Inflation Theory suggests that the unviverse came from "nothing".

Inflation Theory actually postulates that the quantum field has always existed, and the unvierse came out of the quantum field.

I personally feel that this is indeed the best theory we have to date, and I think Alan Guth is every bit as brilliant as Einstein or Newton. I admire the man greatly for his brilliant work!

Alan Guth is right up there on my list of Super Great Scientists.

Whenever I've run into someone who can't see those, I tell them to focus behind the picture. (I think that's what Muerte meant by "relax focus") If they can grasp that concept at all, it usually works.

Pretty much what I meant. If you can simply bring your eyes out of focus regardless of what you're looking at, it's REALLY easy to see them. Couldn't tell you if there's a trick to it though. I just do it.

Yeah, the problem is with the word "focus". Each eye has a lense that changes shape to make an image sharp according to distance from the image.

But that's not the "focus" that makes the 3D apparent.

What that "focus" is, in this sense, is "the point at which the line-of-sight from the two eyes intersect".

If that point is on the same plane as the picture, then you see random garbage.

It's only when that point is the correct distance behind the picture, realtaive to the distance between the two eyes, that you see the 3D image.