Killing Grandma is what the HMOs do now.

Senator Grassley (R Iowa) must really be out of touch with reality. Eveyone I have ever known that goes in to a hospital for surgery, they hand you a packet of consent forms to fill out and they always ask you if you have a living will. If you want one, they provide it. This practice has been going on for as long as I have known.

He wants hospitals to discontinue this?

I'm not real fond of euthanasia. Especially when Gov. can decide who gets to go.

Daytime, you put it into words when I could not do so. This happened to my husband and within 5 days I was widowed. I would have been anyway in time but hospice moved things along quickly. Anytime I have ever brought it up to anyone they got wide-eyed and said, "WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY HERE?!?" in defense of hospice. Sure I signed papers but I was out of my mind at that time.

Huh? Since when does making preparations for when you do die or what to do if you've suffered an accident that would leave you in a vegitative state mean having someone else make all those decisions for you?

I cancelled my AARP subscription and I would suggest anyone who is against Obummers health plan to do the same.

Send AARP the message, to stop endorsing killing off the old folks.

It's alive! End-of-life counseling in health bill
ZALDIVAR,
Associated Press Writer Ricardo Alonso-zaldivar, Associated Press Writer – Fri Oct 30, 12:32 am ET
WASHINGTON –

It's alive. The Medicare end-of-life planning provision that 2008 Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin said was tantamount to "death panels" for seniors is staying in the latest Democratic health care bill unveiled Thursday.

The provision allows Medicare to pay for voluntary counseling to help beneficiaries deal with the complex and painful decisions families face when a loved one is approaching death.

For years, federal laws and policies have encouraged Americans to think ahead about end-of-life decisions, and make their wishes known in advance through living wills and similar legal documents. But when House Democrats proposed this summer to pay doctors for end-of-life counseling, it touched off a wave of suspicion and anger.

Prominent Republicans singled it out as a glaring example of government overreach.

Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, at the time a lead negotiator on health care legislation, told constituents at a town hall meeting they had good reason to question the proposal.

"I don't have any problem with things like living wills, but they ought to be done within the family," he said. "We should not have a government program that determines you're going to pull the plug on grandma."

Thursday, the sponsor of the provision said the barrage of criticism may have actually helped.

"There is nothing more basic than giving someone the option of speaking with their doctor about how they want to be treated in the case of an emergency," said Rep. Earl Blumenauer, D-Ore. "I think the outrageous and vindictive attacks may have backfired to help raise awareness about this problem, which is why it's been kept in the bill."

The legislation would allow Medicare to pay for a counseling session with a doctor or clinical professional once every five years. The bill calls for such sessions to be "completely" voluntary, and prohibits the encouragement or promotion of suicide or assisted suicide.

The counseling provision is supported by doctors' groups and AARP, the seniors' lobby. It was not included in health care bills passed by two Senate committees.

Why stop there?

The streets are littered with the homeless. They are an eyesore and a burden to society. Welfare recients. If they can't or won't work, put 'em down also?

Special needs folks who can't fend for themselves.

Let's do all the Lawyers and Politicians first.

Geez,

The four of us - parents, brother and self have sat down and discussed what we want to happen should anything ever happen. It's written, though whether it's valid or not is debatable. It's not that traumatic of an issue. We've got DNR's all over the place.

Just do it!

Regarding living will - the doc told me, there'd have to be a group of 3 doctors to agree that the person was braindead before they'd actually follow the living will anyways.

Hospice - sad to say, in the end, it's how well you can take care of your family, I personally believe. We did not used to dump our elderly or sick in such places. They stayed home and were taken care of by the family. Now, we dump them when it's inconvient.

Maybe some hospice places you know take in terminally ill people.

We didn't "dump" my mother there. She was at my sister's house. Ever other week I would drive over 560 miles and stay a week to help take care of my mother. Hospice provided EVERYTHING she needed to help make the rest of her life as comfortable as possible. We rolled her every two hours so she wouldn't get bed sores, we set our alarms and took shifts, never getting a full nights sleep. Am I complaining, no way, just trying to set the record straight that there are some people out there that do not "dump" their loved ones when they are dying.

God rest your soul ma
6/19/09


No government intrusion required.

I very much agree that some people DO NOT dump their loved ones at inpatient hospice facilities. They use hospice (part of medicare benefits) and have in home visits from a nurse, equipment and medications delivered to the families home. Some families do not use hospice at all but care for thier loved one at home on their own terms.
The inpatient hospice facilities compete for clients to obtain thier quota's and earnings. Also they compete for at home clients. The profit margin is high.
I have witnessed this competition as a nurse in a large hospital setting as an RN. Also I have worked for a hospice!!!! It is a major hospice that I will not mention here. For ethical reasons I left this place of employment.
You are to be commended for taking care of your loved one at home and being caring and responsible.
The problem I have is that so many people are not aware of what really happens if they give in to the hospice rep's. They are business professionals. Some cities/towns may only have one hospice
so the competition does not exist.

And before anyone brings up that it is so long again, it is so long because the bill in question does not cover just this specific issue. It also has clauses and requirements toward other bills and laws that the congressman writing it wants done.


Maybe some hospice places you know take in terminally ill people.

We didn't "dump" my mother there. She was at my sister's house. Ever other week I would drive over 560 miles and stay a week to help take care of my mother. Hospice provided EVERYTHING she needed to help make the rest of her life as comfortable as possible. We rolled her every two hours so she wouldn't get bed sores, we set our alarms and took shifts, never getting a full nights sleep. Am I complaining, no way, just trying to set the record straight that there are some people out there that do not "dump" their loved ones when they are dying.

God rest your soul ma
6/19/09


No government intrusion required.

I guess it does depend on where you live. All in all, the government should keeps it's nose out of it. If someone doesn't use hospice what options do they have for everything they need, special bed, all meds, oxygen equipment, everything delivered to your door? If she needed something, hospice would have it delivered sooner than we can go get. If some families do not choose hospice what other options do they have? I'm not being a smart aleck, I'm curious. I cannot imagine my mother not having what she needed to make her dying as easy and painless as possible. I know for us, it made everything as easy as it could be taking care of a dying loved one.

Senator Grassley (R Iowa) must really be out of touch with reality. Eveyone I have ever known that goes in to a hospital for surgery, they hand you a packet of consent forms to fill out and they always ask you if you have a living will. If you want one, they provide it. This practice has been going on for as long as I have known.

He wants hospitals to discontinue this?

Hospice is Medicare part A. If a client does not choose to use Part A they still have regular Medicare benefits. Oxygen equipment for example is not just for Hospice patients.
I personally know of a man that stayed at home with his family but only needed a special bed which his family purchased. Whatever medications he needed his family picked up at the pharmacy. He was not in severe pain.
In the case of your family member if things were needed very quickly and hospice provided that than hospice was a good choice.

If the experience I had recently is anything close to what is to come people will be supporting all kinds of legislation to protect peoples rights when it comes to the need for skilled care, hospitalization, and hospice.

If you loose your capacity to think, complain, get yourself to a bathroom you better hope to god you have a team of family members who are willing to work together to care for you and some kind of access to medications.

Skilled Nurseing Care is a farce. Patients are lucky if they are fed and diapered once a shift. They want to give little or no preventive care includeing the use of lotions, tooth paste, diaper ointment, and shampoo while still chargeing tax payers $6,000 a month. Patients get charged for medical services that are never provided and some are not bathed for weeks at a time even when it is charted other wise. Doctors and nurses are too afraid of being punished for over medication and leave almost all medication PRN which most patients don't get it because they are incapable of asking for it. Clothes and personal items are chronically stolen.

Having a living will is a joke in the hospital setting unless a family member is there 24/7 and aggressive enough to block unwanted treatment which also usually results in the withholding of pain medication and the patient being discharged. You usually have to provide your own transportation home.

My experience with hospice is they are a pain in the ***. They come on their schedule, frequently late with minimally skilled aids, stir up the family who may or may not have any say in the decision making process with bits and peices of information, violate confidentiality, push unwanted religious and greif counseling, pass out drugs like candy, and push unwanted invasive procedures when renal failure is already advanced. Then they are johnny on the spot to drag out medical equipment before the body is even cold in the grave.

My experience is most people have little or no understanding or what procedures they do and do not want stated in a living will and rarely get honest answers as to how effective many of them are, how painful they are, or what side effects the drugs or medication will cause. Most doctors are not geriatricians or have any desire or ability to discuss these decisions with patients.

Most patients have no idea how long they can hang on (years), with chronic wounds, and no perceptible ability to communicate or understand what is happening to them except they are in pain and terrified.