rather than looking for solutions from country states we should examine
the policies of the IMF and the international bankers...
that is where the problem is...

BTW...my post was 4 Kari

talking about numbers
we aproximately 12 millions.
how much do you think it's going to cost to deport all of us?
and how much money in revenue will the government will get if thry allow
us to pay taxes?
however, thank you for paying your taxes, I've been benefited.

Regards.

TLW

your a real pal tj777 and i Harley Know ya your a real tuff bloke arnt
ya. well mate i reckon harleys rattle to bloody peices mate and they go
good in straight lines i prefer to squirt dirt inside out on the
roughest seepest trails i can find

Talk to yall later, school calls.
LW, quit allowing employers to employ them (are you illegal?)
And they will leave on their own. Quit allowing land owners to Rent to
them and they will leave. (are you illegal?) Both employing and renting
to illegal is now (already) against American Laws! They just arent
enforced! (Are you illegal?)
Even if they dont school buses arent near as expensive as the welfare
system is costing us!!!
I dont think your illegal, I think you are just over sympathetic! I
understand this, I have symphathy myself, but this issue is hurting
Americans!!! (You are legal aren't you?)

I'm legal in theory

watt does your country spend on welfare, watt does your country spend on
war?????????????????????

Hmmmm....12 million!

I can't see the government winning a cat-and-mouse chase of 12 million
people.

People do what people want to do, whether they are called 'illegal' or
freedom fighters or the electorate. Human motivation, expressed by
masses of people, will always trump government enforcers, no.

I think the simple energetics of the situation favor those who have a
will to work here.

So if there is a practial problem with immigrants or illegal immigrants,
we had better start looking for a better solution than those proposed to
date.

DaVinci, Fanta -- could you guys lay out in just a few bullet points the
problem as you see it?

I apologize if this request seems redundant, but I have yet to see a
clear unemtional statement of the problem. And please! no references to
urls, guys. If there is a case to be asserted, it can surely be asserted
here....

Again, my apologies for a redundant request. I would like to start my
thinking from first principles. I'm going off later today to an informal
briefing on the political status of the bill. I'll let you know if
anything of interest is said.

Thanks in advance, daVinci and Fanta, and whoever else comments on just
what the actual problem(s) is.



Oceans

This is a quest for a better life...and as sure as I'm sitting here and
the rest of you as well better realize this country is a land of
immigrants! It is an inate want for parents to raise their children in a
better environment than they had themselves!
Now what to do about it....maybe we should all go back in time and walk
in our ancestors shoes.....I realize we've reached a point where
controls might be a necessary evil...How can we truly police
ourselves?...Be accountable and take responsiblity no matter what race
religion or creed!

Well said, TJ.

watt does your country spend on welfare watt does your country spend on
war? oh i get it this is irelavent.

Kari,
I have answered your question before! we spend far more on welfare than
defense. Not even close.

Oceans,
I have answered this question in soo many posts and threads its
incredible that you have missed them.
You will either have to wait on a different one or go searching. Sorry
bud!!!

I am so tired of hearing that we are all immigrants. My family goes so
far back here that I consider them Nation builders not immigrants. They
came here when there was no country, just divided warring factions
(tribes) of native Americans, woods and hardships. They worked the land,
survived cruel cold winters, and created the greatest country this world
has ever known.
Immigrants, maybe, illegal-NO, Conquers- ok, I could go with that one.
Nation builders, survivors- Now your getting somewhere.

As far as the immigration of Europeans during the Industrial Revolution,
they were not illegal, and the country was not nearly as populated as it
is today. At first they came under an open immigration policy to fill
jobs, because:

A) They were skilled. America was new to Industries and Europe wasnt,
These people were necessary to the development of our country as an
Industrial Power. Americans at the time were Pioneers! (settlers)

B) The immigrants that came later came through a controlled check
point-Ellis Island, and started on a path to American Citizenship.
Properly and legally, They were not illegal.

Oceans this one is for you. Around 1910, Congress ordered a study on the
effects of (legal) immigration in this country. They wanted to know if
they needed to install limitations. Many of the current laws governing
immigration are a direct result of this commissions findings. They were
receiving reports from the public on things like lower wages, and
reports from Industry about no jobs available. This commission studied
many areas from Law enforcement, welfare, unemployment, and a lowering
of the American lifestyle to due immigrants willing to work for lower
wages. Something Americans couldnt do without lowering their standard of
living. Sounds like the same thing we are faced with today, doesnt it. I
know with your job you have read it, but maybe not, It was called the
Dillingham Commission reports, I have read most all of it myself and I
can tell you to be prepared. Even in those early days of American
Politics nothing is short. It is a very thorough study though, and
interesting, if you like that sort of stuff. Check it out if you have
never read it.

Dang, I hate these long posts. (Excuse all errors) These small boxes do
not allow enough text for me to see.....

here you go kari, best I'll do today....

2006, we will spend $1.78 on welfare for every $1.00 on defense

spend the other dollar wisely to spend a dollar blowing things up so ya
can build it new again is insane.no logic in that mentality.

hard job stalken any one in here. to see watt they have had to say in
the anuls.

I agree, a strong defense is needed, but it should be a far greater
difference.

2.28 for welfare and .50 for defense would probably be possible if we
quit attacking sovereign nations without provocation.

Rock on!!!!

The real pittiful thing is how little we spend on Education!!
.13 ed. for every 1.00 on defense!!!
Wow, wonder why our politicians are so dam stupid!!!LMAO

i, for one, miguel...are very glad you and yours are here.

Fred, it's time you had to defend your perception of the rest of the
world. I see yo slamming the US in nearly every post.
http://www.australian-news.com.au/statistics.htm
B**ch about your own back yard for a while.

Lulu,
I like the current bill, and I have been supporting it. I think its
fair, it gives those that have been here for years a chance to become
citizen. Without being free it is fair. I dont think amnesty should be
giving without an effort.

It opens the path for them to come out of the shadows, if they are
willing to work for it and really want it. This bill collects money to
pay for itself. Although it doesnt come close to collecting the losses
incurred from education, and health care for their children I could live
with it. Have you ever looked at the cost for education of children for
12 years of public education in this country? This money doesnt grow on
trees. (cliche) It comes from taxes, something illegal immigrants
currently dont pay (Note for you here Oceans). Some illegal immigrants
do pay taxes, but they do so under false documents (another one Oceans,
law). This doesnt even include health care, or Social Security. One day,
all of us will retire and their is more costs. (oceans) Who is going to
pay for medical costs to these elderly illegal immigrants?
How will they live without SS......... Unless somehow they have become
wealthy. (I dont discount this possibility)

Answer to the above questions are Taxpayers. (Honest legal residents who
have payed into the system from the first job they have ever held) Many
of these Tax payers are immigrants them self. (Legal) Is this fair to
anyone? I dont think so, but hey, Im just one American!!!

i have partisapated in forums in another place it was much easier to
follow watt others were posting there posts were with their profile and
ya didnt miss a trick go to google and check TOOTPU. im a
nutter