I see no specific reference to country of origin in it Redy. I believe
it is talking about immigrants from all nations. Same rules apply to
all?

It is a fact of life though that an overwhelming number of illegal
immigration come from Central and South America. Still I see no
reference to Nationality in it. Unless you assume that Mexican
immigrants are less likely to be educated. I dont believe that myself,
but you might. I guess the laws concerning providing humanitarian aid,
such as giving water, could be implied to be specific to the Mexicans
crossing through the dessert border region. There was a boat of Refugees
from Tahiti that stumbled ashore in Fla. last week suffering from thirst
though!

Online Petitions are useless as tits on a bull....no one recognizes them
as valid and legal...I won't sign it regardless what my thoughts are on
this because of the aforementioned reason

where is the reference that online petitions are useless...
got a link?...or just your opinion?

From Snopes:

Internet Petitions

Claim: Signing and circulating online petitions is an effective way of
remedying important issues.

Status: False.

Origins: The 2000s have seen the birth of an Internet phenomenon: the
e-petition. It offers instant comfort to those outraged by the latest
ills of the world through its implicit assurance that affixing their
names to a statement decrying a situation and demanding change will make
a difference. That assurance is a severely flawed one for a multitude of
reasons.

Often petitions contain no information about whom they are ultimately
intended for and instead are no more than outpourings of outrage.
Expressions of outrage are fine and good, but if they don't reach
someone who can have impact on the core problem, they're wasted. Thus, a
petition that doesn't clearly identify the intended recipient may have
some small value as a way for its signers to work off angst, but as an
instrument of social change it fails
miserably.

Even those that clearly identify the intended recipient don't come with
a guarantee that the person slated to receive the document is in any
position to influence matters. A misdirected petition is of no more use
than an undirected one — though the voices it contains may be shouting,
they won't be heard.

Even well-addressed, well-thought-out petitions have their problems,
chief among them the lack of a guarantee that anyone is collecting and
collating the signatures or will deliver the completed documents to the
right parties. The mere existence of a petition doesn't warrant that
anyone will do anything with it once it is completed.

Moreover, petitions aren't the instruments of social change we'd so
dearly love to believe they are. Yes, a petition festooned with a
zillion signatures can have some influence, but only as a tangible proof
of a subset of public opinion, and only upon those whose welfare is
dependent upon public opinion (eg. politicians). Those signatures aren't
votes, and they aren't treated as such by the governing bodies that have
to decide on the tough questions of our times. At best, they're seen as
an indication of the public's will, no more.

Petitions calling for the erection of a firefighters memorial or to have
next Thursday designated national performing arts day have some small
hope of success, but all bets are off when the question becomes more
complex ("Let's solve the problem of poverty in the USA") or when acts
taking place on foreign soil are the subject of the angst ("Let's end
child rape in South Africa"). Difficult problems don't suddenly yield up
simple solutions just because a great many fervently hope they would,
nor do foreign governments feel impelled to change conditions in their
countries just because folks in other lands are upset by them.

All of the above applies to hand-signed and cyber petitions alike.
E-petitions, however, have one further shortcoming inherent to them that
entirely undercut any value the same documents might have had in
paper-and-ink form.

Paper-and-ink petitions are signed in a variety of handwriting styles,
each unique to its signer. Consequently, signatures on a paper-and-ink
petition cannot easily be faked else certain glaring similarities would
show up in one entry after another.

E-petitions, however, come with no such assurance — the same person
could have generated all of the signatures. Moreover, it takes little by
way of programming skills to create a sequence of code that will
randomly generate fake names, e-mail addresses, and cities (or whatever
combination of same the e-petition calls for). Once written, such a
program can be executed with a keystroke, resulting in the effortless
generation of thousands upon thousands of "signatures."

Those in a position to influence anything know this and thus accord
e-petitions only slightly more respect than they would a blank sheet of
paper. Thus, even the best written, properly addressed, and lovingly
delivered e-petitions whose every signature was scrupulously vetted by
the petition's creator fall into the same vortex of disbelief at the
receiving end that less carefully shepherded missives find themselves
relegated to.

Okay, so the average e-petition isn't ultimately worth the pixels it
took to create it — why are they so popular?

In a world beset by complex problems, the solutions of which will take
enormous amounts of time, money, and commitment, such simplification as
the e-petition provides a welcome relief. Imagine having the power to
solve those problems! Moreover, imagine having it merely at the click of
a mouse!

Such is the appeal. A sense of powerlessness and lack of control over
events played out on the grand scale becomes replaced by the certainty
that real change can be brought about at the cost of no more effort than
it takes to type a few characters on a keyboard, just enough to display
one's name on a growing list of equally committed cyber activists.
Through the magic of the e-petition, those left feeling like bystanders
to important events are transformed into powerful agents for social
change. It's heady stuff.

It's also illusion.

E-petitions are the latest manifestation of slacktivism, the search for
the ultimate feel-good that derives from having come to society's rescue
without having had to actually gets one's hands dirty or open one's
wallet. It's slacktivism that prompts us to forward appeals for business
cards on behalf of a dying child intent upon having his name recorded in
the Guinness World Book of Records or exhortations to others to continue
circulating a particular e-mail because some big company has supposedly
promised that every forward will generate monies for the care of a
particular dying child. Likewise, it's slacktivism that prompts us to
want a join a boycott of designated gas companies or eschew buying
gasoline on a particular day rather than reduce our personal consumption
of fossil fuels by driving less and taking the bus more often.
Slacktivism comes in many forms (and there are many other illustrations
of it on this web site; our goal was merely to offer a few examples
rather than provide a definitive list), but its key defining
characteristic is its central theme of doing good with little or no
effort on the part of person inspired to participate in the forwarding,
exhorting, collecting, or e-signing.

For many, e-petitions satisfy the need to feel they are doing good and
thus somewhat quell that nagging feeling they should be doing more to
make the world a better place. As such, they serve a purpose as an
outlet — those who "sign" such missives experience a personal sense of
accomplishment in tandem with the warming sensation of having come to
society's aid. Good feels like it has been done in two directions — the
signature helping a worthy cause, and the act of signing helping the
person who was moved to add his name to the petition. E-petitions are
sexy even when they don't have a hope in hell of helping to accomplish
their stated goals because they afford us an opportunity to bestow upon
ourselves a pat on the back rather than continue to feel guilty about
not doing our part. That nothing is really getting accomplished is
almost beside the point; we believe we've been part of something
worthwhile and so feel better about ourselves.

Because e-petitions are as popular as they are, a number of web sites
have sprung up to service the interest in them. That these web sites
exist doesn't impart to the lowly cyber petition any more credibility
than it previously had, nor does it imbue it with any more power to
effect change. The presence of web sites devoted to them (even
well-constructed authoritative-looking ones) changes nothing about
e-petitions' inherent shortcomings. Those tempted to confuse the
appearance of legitimacy with legitimacy itself should keep in mind that
many a mark has been conned out of his life's savings by a smooth talker
who had a fancy, seemingly well-staffed office and impressive
letterhead. Looks ain't everything.

We're not going to offer an opinion on whether one site or another is
legitimate (i.e. the petitions it houses are actually delivered to those
they were intended for and all the "signatures" visitors provide are
actually appended to them). Those questions are far better directed by
interested readers to the sites themselves. Rather, we're going to
acquaint our readers with one further point they might not otherwise be
taking into consideration.

Many of these sites display banner ads that generate revenues for the
sites' operators. That means every time someone visits to view or sign a
petition, the site's owners earn revenue. This happens whether or not
there are any real petitions, whether or not any petitions are delivered
to their stated recipients, whether or not the "signatures" collected
are appended to them, whether or not only the "signatures" collected are
appended (versus the site's owners adding to the list names they have
generated). An entirely bogus petition site will make money for its
owners just as well as a real one would because revenue is dependent on
how many visit the site, not upon how many petitions are completed and
delivered to the named recipients, nor upon how useful cyber petitions
are.

Granted, a great many sites (e-petition and otherwise, such as this one)
carry advertising banners, and granted, the revenues gained through that
are often the only thing that keeps those sites operating. The presence
of ads doesn't indicate anything about the quality or integrity of a
site that bears them, but that those ads are there should be taken into
consideration when musing "Does this site exist for the purpose I would
otherwise think it does?"

No matter what else can be said against cyber petitions (and so far
we've said a great deal), they do serve one actual valuable purpose:
They can sometimes be useful tools with which to acquaint folks with
situations they might otherwise have little, if any, knowledge of. For
instance, in those days prior to the September 11 attacks and the
subsequent war on the Taliban, a cyber petition decrying the condition
of women in Afghanistan worked to enlighten many as to what was going on
half a world away. That the premise of the petition was horribly flawed
("If only the Taliban knew they were doing a bad thing, they'd stop")
doesn't change that it worked to bring information to people.

Of course, that same valid purpose could be better served by essays
circulated on the Internet. Essays, at least, don't foster this growing
climate of slacktivism, of participation at no cost, of lasting social
change achieved through no effort.

Those truly committed to righting the wrongs of the world are encouraged
to take pen in hand and craft actual letters to their congressmen or to
whomever they deem are the appropriate people to contact about
particular issues. Real letters (the kind that are written in a person's
own words and sent through the regular mail) are accorded far more
respect than form letters (let alone petitions), and that should be kept
in mind by those intent upon being heard. Yes, the effort it takes is
far larger. But so is the potential for making an actual difference.

Barbara "differences of opinion" Mikkelson

Last updated: 3 April 2007

The URL for this page is
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/petition/internet.asp

Urban Legends Reference Pages © 1995-2007
by Barbara and David P. Mikkelson
This material may not be reproduced without permission.

dont worry fanta. July 1st when GA stops all the welfare aide to the
illegal hispanics your town will soon be invaded like mine is already.
Like gamail has stated this went on in the 80's. I saw it in the 60's
and 70's with the amnesty offered to the illegals and that went no where
fast. They dont want to be stand up americans or decent citizens. That
would require being responsible taxpayers. Sorry but i dont see it
happening now or in the future. Just my honest opinion!

BARBIESBIGSISTER- looks like ur very predjudice!!!! why in the world
would u think ur any better than hispanics?? U just had the PREVILIDGE..
of being born in the usa.... and i truly dont believe ur NOT!!anyone
that should be looking down on anyone!!!! so unless this is just YOUR
country alone...SHUT UP!!!!!! becouse believe me ... u are no one
special!!! ur just trailor trash!!!

callin names makes ya look oh so grown up

Barbie, we've been overrun, Ten years ago we had seasonal migrant
workers. (seasonal) We have an extensive apple growers agriculture
community.
Now 25% of the population are hispanic, and they said only 1 in 17 are
here legally. They take jobs that used to pay good, that Americans want
(construction), but cant afford to take the paycut to $7 an hour that
the illegals will work for. They rent Trailers, and live 2 or 3 families
in one 2 bedroom. Im not going to live like that, and the gov shouldnt
expect me to. On top of that, the price of housing has not let up,
instead continues upward at the same price.

I welcome what Ga has done, and I dont worry cause we dont have
room.
Sad!!!!!

thats price of housing continues to go up.

Is anyone else reading the draft of the bill?

More coffee for me!

Oceans

you mean this one?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/immigration/

Yes......................

My copy is from a Congressional office. They are asking for an
assessment of its 'international aspects.'



More coffee! More coffee!
Oceans

Heather, WHY should we be responsible for those who are here
ILLEGALL? ILLEGALLY! ILLEGALLY! ILLEGALLY! Catch that? Barbie,
put your fists down. lol

International aspect,,
Now thats interesting..
Are we suppossed to care what other countries feel about our domestic
policies?
What concerns could they have on this matter that we should worry or
care about?
I know you are going to tell us Oceans..

Lol heather... couldnt shot us, as they didnt have anything but bows and
arrows.... roflmao

OK- AGIAN.. LET ME SAY... I KNOW THAT ILLEAGALS SHOULD BECOME LEAGAL ...
IM NOT DISSAGREAING... BUT AS FOR THE CHILDREN ITS NOT THIER FAULT!! IF
THEY WERE FORCED OVER HERE AND COULD DO NOTHING THEN I TRULEY BELIEVE
THE GOVERMENT SHOULD GRAND AMNASTIY FOR THEM ... AND THE HARD WORKING
PEOPLE THAT CAME FROM MEXICO THAT ARE ILLEAGAL... I BELIEVE THAT WE
SHOULD HELP THEM BECOME LEAGAL .. AS LONG AS THEY HAVE NO CRIMINAL
RECORDS... AND YES THEY DOCUMENT IF AN ILLEAGLE GOES INTO JAIL THE
POLICE WOULD KNOW IF HE DID ANYTHING AGIAN...AND HE WOULD BE DEPORTED...
BUT AS FOR THE HONEST HARD WORKING ONES JUST WANTING A BETTER LIFE...
WHO ARE ANY OF U TO JUDGE THEM.??.. DO ANYONE OF U KNOW WHAT IT TAKES TO
GET A GREEN CARD?? U HAVE TO HAVE A HOUSE AND LAND AND OVER 10,000
DOLLARS IN UR NAME... SO DO U THINK PEOPLE IN MEXICO HAVE ANY OF THAT??
NO.. OR THEY WOULDENT BE HERE!!! AND AS FOR THE COMMENT ABOUT NATIVE
AMERICANS NOT HAVEING GUNS... HEY A BOW AND ARROW WOULD DO THE TRICK
JUST FINE! IM JUST SAYING ....WHAT WOULD U DO IF U WERE IN THEIR
SHOES??

as part native i want tom say to all u ignorant european descendants. if
the mexicans get kicked out so should u

Heather22 - Hi, seems like you've joined in the conversation in this
'latest' edition. If I can, for a moment, try to explain. There is a
bigger picture with regards to this whole amnesty thing. You see, in
giving this amnesty, we would be allowing multitudes, current and future
to enter this country, yes legally, from ONE central location. YES
you are correct in describing the poverty they come from, HOWEVER, they
are not the only poeple in this world who desire and would come here to
be legal immigrants, with dreams of citizenship. And these come from
places as bad off or worse as the Mexican/North America's. For us to
give amnesty to a vast majority of Mexicans, is to present a bias to
others wanting to be here. If we opened our borders and said COME,
but we will shoot to kill after 50 million have entered. How many would
get here from other 'overseas' countries before we were flooded to
capacity by immigrants from connected land masses?

There has to be provision that will limit not only total annual
immigrations, but also some allowable number from each country.

To give amnesty now, is to welcome with open arms the vast majority of
illegal aliens, whose number is mexican, thereby, telling the rest of
the world, sorry - go f'k yourself, we're full.

There are families that should be here, together in the U.S. and are
not, because legalities are holding up the immigration from other
countries - amnesty will not help them, in fact it's a major kick in the
teeth by this government to a citizen to say, you as a natural citizen
are not as important as these poor illegal immigrants that we grant this
amnesty to. BLSHT

Poet, you are correct, when discussing those kind of on-line petitions
that someone creates and no-one ever really tracks and forwards
appropriately.

However, there are many great groups out there, and many other
websites, that offerer direct link to all government officials, and if
you are in accord with the belief of a particular group, they even give
you a letter to sign and submit.

These do work. While not a petition in OLD sense of the word, they a
wonderful way to have your views as a citizen, and an constituant
immediately heard and acted upon.

I think these are the kind of sites most here speak of using.

They do work!

Heather22 – “ok... u are all origionally illeagals..”
NO. NOT OK. That is just another line that people use in an attempt to
skew the realistic facts of this issue. If we, or our ancestors came
here LEGALLY, then it is NOT the same thing.

“ and its NOT!! ur country... “
YES it is, where do you even get off implying otherwise?

“and what dose the statue of liberty stand for??”

It was a gift from France, and there is nothing about it that asks for
criminals to sneak into our country. Just like the first remark, way
off base,

“and are u god frearing?? because when
its all over for everyone is judged!! “

And what does God have to do with this? Seems to me that some of those
commandments read, “Thou shall not kill (which illegals do), Thou shall
not steal (which illegals do), Thou shall not covet (which illegals do)…
Now who is supposed to worry about this judgement you are threatening
people with? Seems it is the illegals that have more to worry about.

“BARBIESBIGSISTER- looks like ur very predjudice!!!!”
In YOUR opinion. Just sounds as fed up as a lot of the rest of us to
me. And stating basic facts is not being prejudice.
“ why in the world would u think ur any better than hispanics??”
I didn’t see where she said she was better than Hispanics, but criminals
are definitely beneath any decent citizen.
“U just had the PREVILIDGE.. of being born in the usa.... “
And your point would be what? No matter where a person is born, they
still have the option to do the best they can with what they have, but
NOT to steal or commit crimes against another in the process. Why don’t
you get that part?

“and i truly dont believe ur NOT!!anyone
that should be looking down on anyone!!!! “
Considering the way your posts read, I am guess that English is not your
first language, and therefore really don’t even have a right to protest
any US policies. Just sounds to me like you are disgruntled because you
are amongst those looking to potentially be deported, or in some way,
finally called to account for your crimes.

“so unless this is just YOUR
country alone...SHUT UP!!!!!! becouse believe me ... u are no one
special!!! ur just trailor trash!!!”

RFLMFAO, hey, MY country too, and I agree with her. And just exactly
where do you get off trying to tell ANYONE to shut up??? LOL That was
just hysterical. And before you go calling anyone else trailer trash, at
least learn how to use spell check or something to hide your complete
ignorance of the English language. Have to reread your posts a few
times to even try to make sense of them, which is another reason I
believe that you are just one of the illegals worrying about suffering
the repercussions of your actions. And for the record, we hope they
don’t separate your family, and just toss the whole lot out.

“I KNOW THAT ILLEAGALS SHOULD BECOME LEAGAL ...”
Nope, boot them out after they have paid for their crimes. If we pardon
them, why discriminate against legal citizens who have committed crimes.
May as well just let EVERYBODY out of all those jails and prisons. And
just by being here illegally makes them a criminal, so all that about
there being any difference between them and the ones who actually get
locked, well, there really is no difference. Just as crazy as thinking
the kids should be separated from the parents. REALLY stupid. I think
being with people who loved and cared for you would be more important
than geography. Damn you have a serious defect if you don’t understand
that.

“WHO ARE ANY OF U TO JUDGE THEM.??..”
LOL We don’t have to, the courts do that, remember? Or are you really
in the US at all?

“DO ANYONE OF U KNOW WHAT IT TAKES TO
GET A GREEN CARD?? U HAVE TO HAVE A HOUSE AND LAND AND OVER 10,000
DOLLARS IN UR NAME... SO DO U THINK PEOPLE IN MEXICO HAVE ANY OF THAT??”

And you are implying that all Americans do? Are we just supposed to
pity them over low income Americans because they are from another
country? Makes no sense at all.

“NO.. OR THEY WOULDENT BE HERE!!!”
If the answer is no, then it would seem more appropriate that they not
be here, no green card no entry.

And to address your use of all caps, as though you are foolish enough to
think this would give your lunacy any more weight, “He who has the
loudest argument usually has the weakest cause”.

Heatherrae – “as part native i want tom say to all u ignorant european
descendants. if
the mexicans get kicked out so should u”
RFLMAO, so, if you are only part, which part of you are you suggesting
we kick out? Did you not see how stupid that sounded, or are you just
so foolish you think all people are pure blooded one thing or another?


Gypsy – “Ya heather!!! I was going to mention the indians as well but
that would
have been waaaaaaaay over some heads ”

As if some of us aren’t of Indian decent, or in your twisted version of
reality, are they also not allowed to want illegals to pay for their
crimes instead of being allowed to continue to ruin the country?

Grizz – I have also been trying to make my opposition heard. Obvious
Bush doesn’t care what happens to the country any more, might have a
better chance with local reps.