When you read the word "name", what do you think about? The moniker
that is applied to someone by their parents, right? A pronoun. But
that's not true when you talk about God. When you read "In the name of
the father, the son and the Holy Spirit" (first, notice that the there
are three subjects, but name is singular) or you are told to pray "in
the name of Jesus", what is being discussed is an alternate definition
of name.

Name
--------------------------------------------------------------
the name is used for everything which the name covers, everything the
thought or feeling of which is aroused in the mind by mentioning,
hearing, remembering, the name, i.e. for one's rank, authority,
interests, pleasure, command, excellences, deeds etc.
--------------------------------------------------------------

So when you are told to pray in Jesus' name, you are actually being
commanded to pray with Jesus' authority, asking for something that Jesus
would ask for in your place. This is why it's important that you
understand the lessons Jesus taught, so that you will know what you
should and should not pray for.

THANK YOU SPIDER FOR POSTING THAT

Thanks Spider...

Amen

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

'The First Council of Nicaea in 325 AD established a nearly universal
Trinitarian dogma and expressly rejected any heresies. '

Once again a Secret Council decides on what God is.

Neither the Old Testament nor New Testament uses the term "Trinity".

Wikipedia on the Trinity:

Many passages from the Old Testament have been cited as supporting the
Trinity, and the Old Testament depicts God as the father of Israel and
refers to (possibly metaphorical) divine figures such as Word, Spirit,
and Wisdom. Some biblical scholars have said that "it would go beyond
the intention and spirit of the Old Testament to correlate these notions
with later Trinitarian doctrine."

AdventureBegins,

Not the point of my post, but you are wrong.

Matthew 28:19
------------------------------------------------------------
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
------------------------------------------------------------

Jesus spoke of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirt and used the word
"name". Not names, but name. Clearly indicating that the three are ONE
and share ONE name. Singular, it's not just a wireless phone network
anymore.

Please check archeology and tell me who the author of Matthew was? And
when this gospel was written. Check also Mark and Luke?

I might be wrong in this but I doubt it.

It comes not from me but from another.

Jesus did not teach this. The first known use of the trininty was in
140 AD. Check it.

This was added at Nicea.

AdventureBegins,

According to you:
Matthew was written in 140 AD.
The council of Nicea was in 325 AD.

So the council of Nicea used their time machine to travel back in time
to 140 AD to create a false doctrine of the Trinity. Your logic is
infallible.

AdventureBegins,

The earliest fragment we have of the "Book of Matthew" is conservatively
dated at 60 AD, while some estimate it was written in 40 AD. We have a
full copy of Matthew from between 100 - 140 AD, but the fragment proves
it existed long before then.

Somehow, I'm not surprised that you "doubt you are wrong".

The AUTHOR of the currently accepted Book of Mathew is in dispute. AS
are the authors of Luke. (notice the plural).

The oldest known manuscript of the Book of Mark is not the one used in
the bible. It was found amoungst the Dead Sea Scrolls and is HOTLY
debated by the church as not being a book of the New Testement. They
also have it and have released only a small fragment to disprove the
archeologist claim that it is the Book of Mark. Wonder why!
Archeologist that had a chance to examine it say it does not agree with
the currently accepted version in the bible.

AdventureBegins,

I'm having trouble finding anything like what you are talking about.
There is a small fragment that is believed to be part of Mark, but the
ONLY whole word in the fragment is "and". There is a lot of debate,
it's like a paleotologist finding a tooth and offering a description of
what the whole animal would look like. There is NO proof that it's
Mark. BUT!!!!! Even if it was, there is only a few tiny fragments, not
a whole book. So where your claim, that it's a full Gospel and it's
different from the one in the bible, comes from...I just don't know.

The rest of that manuscript is at the Vatican. Locked into the Vatican
Secrets. Guarded by the Dominican Order check further. I found it on
the net. So can you. I am not Net-Wise. I but stumble about when
looking for things yet find them I do.

As far as the Nicean Council. A Man in 140 AD first begin teaching the
'Trinity' and the Nicean Council Adopted and made Official the teaching
of that man. Up to that point it was not taught.

As I have said archeologist dispute the Author of the Book of Matthew as
it is presented in the currently accepted version of the bible.

Get rid of the old so the new can destroy..

Mark 12:28-31

Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together,
perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, "Which is the
first commandment of all?"

29 Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O
Israel , YHWH our Elohim, YHWH is one. 30 And you shall love YHWH your
Elohim with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and
with all your strength.' This is the first commandment.
NKJV

Deut 6:1-5

"Now this is the commandment, and these are the statutes and judgments
which YHWH your Elohim has commanded to teach you, that you may observe
them in the land which you are crossing over to possess, 2 that you may
fear YHWH your Elohim, to keep all His statutes and His commandments
which I command you, you and your son and your grandson, all the days of
your life, and that your days may be prolonged. 3 Therefore hear, O
Israel , and be careful to observe it, that it may be well with you, and
that you may multiply greatly as YHWH our Elohim of your fathers has
promised you — 'a land flowing with milk and honey.'

4 "Hear, O Israel : YHWH our Elohim, YHWH is one! 5 You shall love
YHWH our Elohim with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all
your strength.
NKJV
Yahshua only Quoted his Fathers words. Son is only as his father, not
the father. Did he say to himself.

Matt 3:16-4:1
When He had been baptized, Yahshua came up immediately from the water;
and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of
YHWH like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came
from heaven, saying,"This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased
."
NKJV
Is your savior a vanilaguist? (sp?)

We are adopted sons so are we Elohim? Are you YHWH? JC is a greek name.
Our Savior had a hebrew name. The one you call upon is already here. In
his own name. The spirit and the Temple are not the same thing,are they?
Listen to the 3rd commandment and learn something.

here is what vain means exactly what the translaters have done and
tradition holds to and you spread as a false doctrine. The Holy spirit
if it was Yahshua then how could you be forgiven speaking against him?
Vain.....

OT:7723

OT:7723 aw=v* shav' (shawv); or shav (shav); from the same as OT:7722 in
the sense of desolating; evil (as destructive), literally (ruin) or
morally (especially guile); figuratively idolatry (as false,
subjective), uselessness (as deceptive, objective; also adverbially, in
vain):

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with
Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc.
and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
Has Not YHWH and Yahshua's names been brought to mean nothing for
another name? Miles

Miles,

Do you really think salvation is based on using Jesus' correct name? If
so, get ready to burn, because Jesus' name was Yeshua ben Josef, not
"Yahshua".

Honestly, I can't get anything out of your rambling posts. But if you
are questioning the trinity, then tell me why Elohim is the first name
for God used in the Bible and it is plural? Any word in Hebrew that
ends with "im" is plural. Also, why does God use the words "us" and
"we" and "our" in Genesis? Who is God talking to?

Do you honestly believe in the Sacred Name movement? That unless you
say "Yahweh" and "Yeshua" that you are bound for hell? That's not even
legalism, it's micro-legalism. In the Old Testament, Malach Yahweh (The
Angel of the Lord aka Jesus) said that his name was "wonderful"
(literally means "Beyond your comprehension"). It's not what you call
Jesus or God, but that you are faithful to them that matters.

Sorry I'm late. I am responding out of sequence as my responce is to
the origional post.

It seems to me there is little to pray for but hope. Past threads have
taught that the life we live has been played out to the end of time.
Only God knows it, only God sees it and should God interrupt it, God
would not know all, paradox I'm told.

So it seems that prayer is lost and only hope can remain. Why pray at
all, when hope is all that God has given, when a single prayer does not
affect the outcome of the future?

If as they say he said love god is the first this is wrong.

First commandment of God to mankind.

'Be fruitfull and multiply'. (Genesis 1:28)

Red the future, even time itself is not linear.

Each step along the way is a branching within the vine of the tree of
life.

Each time a new flower springs forth from that vine it blooms for a time
and when its time of bloom is done it drops a seed that becomes a new
vine.

What God has created we can not destroy. What God has created he will
not destroy only change a bit as he trims the vine so that it might bear
good fruit.

spider i try to do YHWH comands as Yahshua did. Now Yahshua came in his
fathers name. Yahweh. So see Yeshua ia a jewish discount of the son. Not
to put in the name. You know very little about the Holy name Movement as
you so call it. The Commandments strictly say he is jealous for his name
another he will not accept. Tradition as the Pharasees, is what you
know, not the bible. You can not discount what i say because it is
truth. You can not fight truth. If you do then you are of your father
the father of lies. You hate the names and you prove it by how you keep
saying, he knows who you are talking to. So call him Budda or veshnu or
Mohammad he knows who you are talking to.. Right? miles

I never understood it and probably never will. I have a direct
relationship with G-d and send my prayers directly there.

And I believe you. Do you know why you use G-d? Miles